btw. just an idea for meeting room when looking for pickup race:

at connecting everyone can upload profile of desired combos. And then can see how many ppl are connected wishing to race at this combo with similar PB with possibility to send a message: lets go, find a server and race there

Quote from Fonnybone :

Oh dear god no ! I hate this 'cash cow' recipe. Lots of mmo work this way and while i can understand they need to maintain full-time
(24/7) servers, i just won't pay a 'rental' fee. I'll play the free content then move on to another game and i'm not the only one.

I agree with Bob Smith that it won't affect developement speed and i'd add that in no way would it increase
the number of people racing. How could it ?! It would only reduce the number of active racers.

There would need to be a completely new game or some major changes worth paying extra money for an *cough* old *cough*
game that's simply not finished. There isn't anything new in LFS, just old stuff that isn't finished yet.

I'd rather see ads paying for server fees.

Well, I dont think that ad fees would be big (around 500 racers daily, so probably max.1000 unique users monthly)
I cant find now at LFSW number of LFS users, considering 30000 it is £360000 for 6 years. Aint that big for a smasher.
8 bucks a month is something I wouldnt pay for iRacing but I wouldnt reject this businessmodel because it is iRacing's. For now demo/S1-S2 ratio is ~50/50 so nowadays price £12/24 is not that big.
And 1 quid a month is not a cash cow model, but I would say that stable £500-800 monthly for 3 devs (instead steep slope down of new racers) would prioritize LFS higher among their other projects

edit: btw. I knew what I was paying for and I dont moan for new content. The reason is: better content = more racers = more servers I can race on

Last edited by AndRand, Sat, 2 Jan 2010 00:37.

Quote from three_jump :

By that logic I'd have paid £72 by now, hmm actually £84 with 2010...

You would have paid as long user over long time period, but newcomers will have to pay this growing amount at once. Thus there is growing price barrier for newcomers diminishing steady income more. In rent model there is flow from both newcomers and old users.

Last edited by AndRand, Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:51. Reason : conditional ;)

Quote from rap-tea-kewl :

a few more edits from while back, i should go back editing but no time

he, corel blurs and rain effects?

Quote from Greboth :

Depending on how the subscription and licencing was handled would affect whether I would or wouldn't pay. Overall though I probably would pay but I would expect something more. I don't know what more though as I appreciate development speed is limited.

I proposed tis because it just works both ways: first ppl recognize if they are willing to pay monthly/annualy and give more stable income for the devs. However... they will pay monthly/annualy if the devs would supply good content.

I had this derived from feel-in-pants, that I didnt bother to look at closely. And I have no experience with manual to feel acceleration kick-in compared at gear change at torque peak and redline, as auto does it auto

And now I am convinced It even shows that gear change should occur at redline as torque is always higher on lower gear.

Quote from Neilser :

One thing I did notice while replaying various replays carefully to see what the acceleration was in the various gears before and after a shift

your acceleration comes from torque, not the power which enables to deal with growing opposite forces (ie. air drag), so in proper gearing you should change gears as soon as torque is diminishing as torque on higher gear should be higher.

Quote :

if you don't get too close to the redline and shift with your foot kept flat to the board, the engine revs keep rising while the clutch (auto or other) is down, and then when the clutch is released the extra energy the engine has built up while the car was decelerating compensates somewhat for the slight speed reduction during the shift. (Of course, even if you do hit the redline, the revs will still have to drop significantly when the higher gear is hooked up by the clutch, but the gain is a bit smaller then...)
You can clearly see a couple of MPH increase as the clutch engages, with much higher (like 1.5x or even 2x) acceleration than when the revs have fallen back and the clutch is no longer slipping. (Of course, this does warm your clutch up! )

creating more slip afterwards

Quote from GenesisX :

I remember when I was developing my own sets for XRG (drifting on VHP), that there was an optimal shifting point (lets say 5600 RPM) which would be displayed on the dashboard with a shifting indicator light. Nowadays, this shift light is no longer here (on road going cars anyways). So, as a general rule, where would I shift? Before the rev - limiter, on the rev - limiter? How much?

I'm talking in regards to the XFG, where I am trying to get as much outta the thing. I see people shifting on 8k, where myself, I shift at around 7500 - ish. Will dynocharts help? I've lost my share of the S2 car dynocharts...

Anyways, TYIA

heh, just the same the car havent changed if you want to be superaccurate get replay analyzer to see max torque vs. rpm. The indicator was nothing else but this rpm.

Quote from Vykos69 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6AMjQsAj7w

with your brakes on and holding flash

Last edited by AndRand, Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:35.

Quote from Dajmin :

There's no incentive for anyone to sign up for it.

I wouldnt say incentive. I would say: a rule. Actually, change of rules

And I dont perceive it like extra money for the devs - it is rather as I can imagine, valuable resource - the time - they have to spend on their main projects to run their hobby, LFS.

yup, 5 to 10 laps

get Rigs of Rods

with 2s of laptime difference...? 2 or 3 laps max.

Quote from SparkyDave :

What I was trying to point out in the post above is that extra money and LFS development are in no way related.

you can donate as much as you like and overpay for a licence if you wish, that won't make Scawen, Eric & Vic work any faster, will it?

SD.

You will not be forced to prolongate your license it would depend on how you will perceive its progress. The thing is that without that progress the game will gradually die as new racers will not come up - but it is better to count on current racers than newcomers

Quote from Matrixi :

And? Has it been criminalized to dream of a better future for LFS? It would help if the poll stated WHAT would you be paying FOR. I wouldn't pay extra 12 pounds to get nothing back in return, for progress however, I would. Gladly.

Lets say... one stage - S1, S2, S3...

I found many servers with ranking systems, there are many leagues but I dont remember pick-up servers multilplied for divisions ie. with 2s range of laptimes.

I can cope with 105% of WR mostly that is used for some servers as a need and from my experience 2 seconds is the difference that makes the sprint race. So if there were couple of servers for the same combo with thresholds (WR+2s, WR+4s, WR++) much more racers could enjoy close races.

Quote from nikopdr :

Considering S1 is 12£, why pay the same amount yearly?

Master-server is stable cost. So there must be steady rate of new racers or steady flow of cash from current racers - if that would help keeping up the course of development

Would you accept LFS license active for 1 year period? So you would pay 12 pounds a year every year or 1 quid a month?

Quote from obsolum :

So how do you feel nKp's physics compare to those of LFS then? I know nKp is generally regarded as the sim for openwheelers. Obviously since I've never driven one in real life I can't really pass judgement but I do feel nKp comes a lot closer to what I would think an openwheeler would feel like than LFS does.

Quote from tristancliffe :

It got so close. Sure, there were a few bugs, and sometimes the cars bounced around if you used mismatched setting, but nKP got damn close. The general feel is very similar to LFS, but nKP got the over-the-limit feeling a bit more accurately in the latest patches. If only Kunos would continue with it...

Because it isn't finished. The test team presumably found more faults/bugs/problems than could be resolved in those 4 months, or it could be a myriad of other reasons. Chill.

well, I found nKP very accurate but very rough. As forces in LFS feel too springy, in nkP they are just on the edge but with no rubbery, non-digital feel.

Quote from rediske :

Subscribed to IRacing for a month as well - but didn't like it... Won't do it again...

Imho I think it wouldn't ruin Scawen's dignity if he'd tell the community at least something about the patch that should have come well over a year ago...

Heck, there was development progress report, I dont expect anything soon because of new moaning tidal wave.

How would you react to annually/monthly paid license for LFS? a new thread maybe?

Quote from lizardfolk :

That this is how games die...it's a common death for millions of online based games before and it will be the #1 cause of death for the majority of online based games in the future and LFS is not immune to this.

Fact is, most of these cases as well as millions of others are cases where the developers have decided that they "did enough" or did not need to do more and the game died as a result. (shall I quote more? Space Cowboy Online (AirRivals), Rakion, Scion of Fate.) The devs HAVE to realize that the sim community is not necessarily that different from the MMO or the rest of the online gaming community.

They surely realize more than you think. The ones that learnt thru those lessons are iRacing guys (they developed GPL so they know ) - and they introduced regular fees. I dont like this business model but the fact is that this is the only viable. To maintain steady, flourishing progress devs need stable income which for now comes from new racers. If they come in diminishing rate - the game dies but the servers are still remaining cost.
The way devs can maintain increase of racers is to keep it so much up-to-date younger ppl will come.

So if I had been proposed such situation - I wouldnt pay iRacing rates but I would agree with LFS license at the rate of 1 pound a month - 1 stage a year? comn, if development would go at that speed....

Quote from STROBE :

Besides, I've been around since S1 days. What will it do to the LFS community if everyone that has supported and experienced LFS for several years just buggers off until something significant happens? Truth be told, I think the extent to which that has already happened has damaged public pick-up racing a fair bit in LFS.

Adding some old blokes moaning...
I've been here since S1 times too. Frankly I didnt make many comparisons but I wouldnt pay monthly fee to iRacing, I found netKar interesting but no so much to buy a license, and having few laps on the Race just to know tracks by heart when watching WTCC (SimBin phisics just turns me down).

I, experienced LFSer, would blame rank systems for damaging public pick-up racing. They become very popular and occupied resulting others plain empty, but for me it is quite not appealing to spend days to get points for something else than xfg Or racing regularly in leagues. I dont mind 105% of the best laptime - mostly I would cope and it's obvious that more than 2-3s a lap just doesnt make a race. I rather, during the years, see lack of pick-up servers with laptime range - that is something what people enjoy in club racing: no matter you fight for 1st or 20th place - it is just as much awesome for the competitors.

Quote :

The other big downer was that I'd lost my collection of setups since 2008, and one thing it taught me is that you can drive on the absolute tyre-cooking limit, but someone with a locked diff will cruise right past you.

You can always find good base for your setup at Inferno (I welcomed GenerAl from dSRC there as his setups were very good for my style)

Quote from brandons48 :

Of course.
:shhh:

but light from exhaust pipes on the tarmac look bit strange.

Some shadow near cone would settle it on the ground.

at the evening