Steam offers a lot of cool stuff to people wanting to publish games.

LFS already has all that cool stuff. A purchasing system, in-game content download, auto-updates, friend tools, community tools, etc. Can someone name a tool or service LFS would get that hasn't already been developed in-house?

As some have said that being on Steam would get more people into the game... why do you say that? It's true many people have never heard of LFS, but appearing on a list of games for sale on Steam doesn't seem to be the logical way to get the word out.

Rather, once the game is done, some minor publicity would be perfect. Even then imho word of mouth is the best way to get the kind of people in who should be...

I have Steam for natural selection 2 and I always get a good belly laugh when it says "downloading patch 0/47MB completed". I mean... 47MB. apart from a small taskbar menu and a few HTML screens, what am I supposed to be downloading? could it be... advertising material?? hahaha

admittedly most of the epicness of this sound comes from the driver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6bwZ4ooTI

there are a lot of amazing sounds linked from this thread but not very much of what he had: pushing to the absolute limit

you can feel the driver's emotions through the sound, especially some downshifts like urgent (:45), really pissed off (1:08) and insisting, slightly fearful, searching, almost praying (:13). then there is a snarling acceleration at 1:05.

and the upshifts... well, damn. (from what i understand these gearboxes had no auto-clutch, but some modified rings to assist faster clutchless shifting, at the cost of skill required)

now if only there was a video with this driver with the ferrari V12

Quote from Fordman :

There should be a mutual respect amongst us drivers no? No matter how fast or slow we are? We are all here for the same reason....to have fun?

Ayrton Senna would have said we are all here for the same reason: to win

just sayin'

having said that, I can totally see where you're coming from. you had an expectation about LFS when presenting it to someone else, and you felt let down and cared enough to try to address it. everyone else seems to agree though, we can't police the drivers and make them be nice.

Quote from beckyanne19 :

I have downloaded some of the fast runs and watched how they drive the track with the XRG.

since you are serious enough to be looking at WR hotlaps from www.lfsworld.net , you can benefit a lot from the RAFA tool to see exactly what to do to make up the time difference. (seeing does not equal doing though heh).

check this out:
-save a hotlap. (choose hotlap mode in LFS. when you're done the lap press 1.)
-log in to lfsworld
-choose "S2 hotlaps" icon
-choose "hotlap charts tab"
-on lower right use "upload a hotlap" section.
-choose file, navigate to <lfs_folder>\data\spr, then sort by date to find your latest hotlap easily
-choose "racer details" tab of s2 hotlaps window
-click the track/car combo text in the first column: track. in your case "bl GP/ XRG" (tooltip appears saying "click to see this chart")
-this brings you to the relevant chart with your hotlap on the current page (you may have to scroll.)
-find your racername in the list and click the "C" just after your country flag
-at the bottom of the lap chart, select page 1
-click the "C" after the country flag in the first row.
-the right side of the window updates with the time differences. just after the times, there is a button "compare in the hotlap analyser". this opens the RAFA tool with your hotlap and the WR loaded.

** welcome to the uber-cool world of LFS **

to use this tool:

very briefly, your time is based on how early in the corner you get on full throttle, the speed you manage to keep up to the throttle-on point, plus how rapidly you can brake at the end of a straight.

the difficulty is:

5% braking at threshold from braking point
10% keeping throttle floored after getting on it (wiggle the wheel a bit)
85% be smooth enough at end of braking to turn the car from the straight-line of threshold braking to the proper attitude / balance needed to receive 100% throttle, simultaneously not slowing too much and using the full potential of the front tires to turn in.

having the proper set takes a lot of the fun out of the 10% part. if you have a set not quite right for the track, this part can be impossible, and if you do have a "perfect" set it's a bit disappointingly easy.

the RAFA window defaults to a speed graph in the top left window. for blackwood gp this goes up then drops sharply and to its lowest point. put your cursor on the minimum point for the red line (the slower car - you i assume!)

at this point the graphic on the upper right shows you where in the corner you started to accelerate.

if the blue line goes lower and hits minimum sooner, the WR holder slowed down more and earlier in the corner, turned harder, and got back on the gas earlier than you getting more pace the whole way to the next corner.

if the blue line doesn't go as low as yours, the tires are capable of more G-force than you are using, and you are slower through the corner and the whole way to the next. a lot of times the set makes a big difference here.

the throttle graph in the lower window will show you the blue car has the throttle down earlier and generally more.

you can call up brake graphs, gear graphs, even setup info, but the two default screens are enough to get you within a few percent of the WR pace.

RAFA can surprise you by showing you that you likely hit the same top speed (or nearly) as a top driver, and lose time in places you didn't expect. try to apply the facts you see on the graph to how your car enters and exits the corners. it's a mental game with yourself - that is if your set is sufficient.


you should definitely drive online even if you're slow. you'll get a feel for how to pass by watching how others pass you. since i learned to race strictly in lfs i can tell you what a learned about how to pass:

always pass on the inside, unless you're drafting and they cover the inside

come up more or less straight behind people so they see you coming.

if you're catching up to a driver, but only barely, the only way to pass may be to be far enough away going into a corner to go faster through the corner without having to let up not to hit them, yet not so far that you don't get alongside before the next corner. especially in the slower cars, momentum through the corner is probably where you can be quicker so this is the approach to use.

the best drivers never seem to slow down much on the way by. bad drivers like me tend to get stuck behind slightly slower drivers. i think it has something to do with raw aggression. i used to run into people too often, especially braking side by side at the end of a straight, so i guess i got into the habit of slowing up as i caught up to another driver. the best pilots seem to just keep their momentum and drive around. getting a lot of laps in and having the confidence when slightly off-line makes the difference i think.

sorry for the wall of text, eh! fun topic though

Quote from Specht77 :

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/0 ... o-will-be-completely-dif/

so what they are using LFS to design the next Scirocco?

Quote from meddc :

... It's not AA's fault or LFS's that people respond with comments like that. It's the way the world is - just look on any public forum or news site that allows comments.

this


in a way it's a shame people aren't so civilised on the internet. but it's a given so how are we to change the world really?

out of curiosity i visited the AA forum linked above and saw how the admins handled a racism complaint. talk about a tricky situation and props for a good compromise found. it seems even in the wild west of the internet / LFS chat the smoking guns appear when people cross the line

the LFS community can be very rough, and i think that's good. we demand effort before giving respect and if i found it a hard and uninviting community on the forums especially, it made me work harder and see my flaws because i wanted that acceptance so bad. so my vote is we leave the community as is and say rough banter is accepted and expected.

you know i think we can all agree when someone thinks it funny or appropriate to say you suck because you're a niqqa or chink or whatever then the banhammer comes out, or if they decide a personal agenda to ram another off the road every time they see them... we need to protect ourselves from idiots after all. but tough love and coarse jokes.. well?

no because we don't have a system in place to funnel people into the appropriate race.

it would be awesome to have just one destination server to head to that would then split out joiners into various groups based on relative location, skill, etc (which could be served invisibly by different machines). but has any company figured all that out yet???

lfs has the system perfect for it. power to the users, the admins, less forced organisation, more freedom.

it's from the signup link at http://www.absolute-beginners.nl/news.php. the text at the top reads:

"We are a bunch of fanatical racers, in the online racesimulator Live For Speed. At the moment the starting grids in our leagues are getting bigger and bigger, but if you like to compete with others in serious league races, signup at our site and start racing with us!"

and the signup link for me shows "http://www.absolute-beginners.net/signup.php"


sorry for slow reply, and thanks for the welcome

ahh, then I think you must change your link url to .nl instead of .net! it still does not go to the form for me.

yes I did manage to log in and have done some practice sessions on the server. looking forward to tomorrow's FZ5 cup race

Quote from HarryGillman :

cant wait to try these

does anybody know if i can use LFStweak on 0.6E offline?

i think the answer is no... but im not sure

http://www.lfs-tweak.com/ has an update for LFS 0.6E.

I attached a preset to make the RB4 more competitive with the LRF class. to load it you must use "Load... Load CarType 1 Values..." and have the unzipped file in your documents folder.

it feels quite a bit more lively and fun. it may still be a little too slow so if anyone comes up with a more balanced tweak please pass it on.


I've had a few goes at the complete set of stages. here are the times I got:

LX4
4:50.18
5:32.94
9:55.27
7:12.48
5:23.78
6:51.94
--
39:46.59

FZ5
4:41.70
5:36.53
9:51.35
7:08.51
5:13.14
6:32.20
--
39:03.43

LX6
4:39.64
5:28.56
9:45.16
7:08.84
5:03.64
6:42.62
--
38:48.46

RAC
4:37.32
5:41.15
9:28.53
7:03.92
5:06.43
6:26.17
--
38:23.52


I believe times in the 37 minute range are possible for the good drivers. for example my pb for the aston stage is 6:21.98 with the fz5. true it is totally different to do one stage repeatedly at breakneck speeds than to do all 6 in order without restarts!!

(times calculated using http://www.unitarium.com/time-calculator)

hmm, engine temperature, brake temperature, throttle lag, clutch heat / damage when car is going faster than engine, grind if put in gear without clutch. anything that adds to the immersion makes the game more appealing.

lfs is great for its depth so adding to that would be coolest imo, and based on people's opinions / framerates I'm guessing there's enough CPU power to simulate a few more things under the hood.

I recently got euro truck simulator 2 and had fun with it for a few weeks. now I can't drive in it without noticing the weavy / bobby / flaky suspension, the grainy MLAA, the physics-free rail AI, or even the wind generators that spin so fast like a child's top. the lack of realism totally killed the game for me, making it unplayable.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

... like a flight stick which have sat untouched.

use as handbrake

Hello, the signup link on the absolute-beginners website home page is giving me the following page: http://ww38.absolute-beginners.net/signup.php

I got around the problem by manually entering http://www.absolute-beginners.nl/signup.php which leads to a proper registration form.

HTH any others interested in the league!

Quote from MrSam :

Supposedly this is the best simulator in the world, if it was really the best why it is not popular.

it is the most popular... for people who want realistic car feel as their #1 priority.

disagree with the suggestion that limiting demo accounts would have a positive effect on lfs. maybe I missed the argument.. what the service costs are too much?

if the subject is getting more servers full, then we must look at what priorities made people switch to other pickup race systems. my guess is the people who went to iracing did it because the racing is more serious there. in lfs you get rammed at full speed by someone who thinks you cut them off (i.e. a few days ago this happened on cargame sheesh)

possibly many people went to iracing because of more / better content. I dare to say this would be a reason to try but not a reason to stay. without paying big bucks and therefore the majority of iracing is done on a few cars and tracks.

frunze is no bad guy or anything.. anyone thinking how lfs can be better is cool in my book Just don't understand the stick. like carrot better. even better carrot with 4 wheels YEAHHH

1. so close to real you can learn to race using only LFS
2. amazingly skilled drivers online
3. total freedom to use software like you want -- rally layouts!
4. community
5. content - e.g. watch epic races from any angle you want as many times as you want

had to pick just 5 hehehe

Quote from The Very End :

You dick, you fooled me to read this topic

sorry! if you like rally though, it is something for you

Hey all you rallycross fans, lfs has a new rally pack! No, you can't choose which damage to repair between stages but you *can* drive for 40 minutes on stages that can make you forget which lfs track you're actually on.

For those interested, head on over to this thread in the layouts section.


On a side note, does anyone know if it's possible already to automate track changes on the client? They're a bit of work to select in order and I'd like to take that necessity out if it can be done with some script file or whatnot. Alternatively, could something like that be done via insim?

One that I doubt can be done is to have the damage carry over from stage to stage but.. that can wait for another year

Merry Christmas!

details
a while back I got bored and started driving on the side of the road at Westhill. Having realised how cool some of the corners were, I added barriers between the grass and the asphalt and made a rally layout. This was so much fun I did another at Aston and later fern bay. This november I figured I could finish up the other 3 environments in time for christmas and make a present for the lfs community, so here it is!

due to object limits there isn't always a barrier on the side of the "road", so the honor system is in effect. basically if you are on the grass, stay on the grass, likewise for asphalt, and for south city and part of kyoto, if you are in a lane, stay in that lane. don't worry though! there are plenty of objects and signs to make it clear where to go, and transitions from grass/dirt to pavement are clearly indicated. if in doubt there are demo replays but they shouldn't be necessary and besides, spend that 40 minutes driving!

the priorities in making these layouts were
1) novelty - the least number of recognisable corners possible (only 2 fern bay corners use 'standard' line).
2) flow - this should be fun and not feel too tight or have a lot of j-turns.
3) length - each layout should use the terrain to the max.

driving these stages is much different from the standard lfs content. you have to be cautious, often only using partial throttle or partial braking for example down fast, slippery downhill corners. overall the emphasis is on being just aggressive enough to maintain a good pace and car control to make it to the finish!

all stages start at a standard start/finish so there are no penalties for touching cones or tires. multiplayer could work, but the start areas may have objects in the way and the stages are really too narrow to have many passing spots.

a pair of orange cones means caution. some layouts have green tire stacks to indicate apexes. the stages have been tested extensively but it always feels like there could be some improvement, so don't hesitate to point out flaws or suggest modifications.









for those interested in posting times, please follow these rules

• must have codriver
  
• race all 6 stages back to back without restarts to post a valid total time
  
• no wallriding
  
• use same car + setup (should we do tire changes?)
  

the setups used in making the demos are attached.

the RAC set is self-made and is surprisingly resilient to aggressive driving while retaining great turn-in.

the RB4 set is also self-made after watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi7rlXiVZPo. it aims to recreate that soft floaty front-end that eats rough terrain, good for the fern bay stage.


Have fun and please post back with feedback, times, or even what you ate for breakfast.

Quote from Scawen :

I was angry for a while ... It is really hard for me to understand why someone attacks others, without any apparent motive.

think harder. think of the fear some others may have of S3. think of the money they have. think of their investment and their need for commercial success.

you do this project for love, but you are the exception.

no doubt S3 arrives anyway some day unscathed, but they're at least going to try and sink your battleship!!!

("it's business")

the AI was not a priority in this game. on most tracks with most cars it is pretty slow, but some combinations can be much more competitive, especially the FBM (F1 training car). on the city track the AI sometimes can't make it through the course with some cars.

however lfs is very customizable, so you can do the following:

-create a field of various strength AI by making them use various engine restrictions. once you're done tweaking you can save the grid to be reloaded later. you can easily put yourself mid-pack to where you must race your best to make it to the front with proper engine restrictions (with you at -3% to -7% power about). even on my modest computer you can do a big field.

-upgrade the graphics. makes a big difference.

-with a particular older version of LFS you can actually modify the cars themselves with LFSTweak. this lets you do some fun stuff like change horsepower, recreate your own car (about). can not go online with modified car.

-you can create your own custom layouts (autocross). this is actually a pretty powerful tool that can be used on all the tracks and not just the autocross parking lot. many objects are there for you to place like you want, and the race timing works well, with and without penalties for hitting tires/cones.

one thing that wasn't mentioned was the setups. compared to the other games/sims I've used (iRacing, GP3, colin mcrae rallys) the car setup in LFS is pretty awesome. apart from static steering geometry and 1/1 motion ratio, it is a lot like setting up a real car. if you enjoy the challenge of tackling the engineering aspect of racing, you can have a lot of fun in LFS. you can really make a setup that responds to your own style of driving, and there is a lot of depth to the response the sim gives you to changes in setup.

I guess I am someone who takes more of a single player approach to LFS since most people are like "it sucks" or "it rocks". my best memories are definitely from online play when I ran into someone about my same pace. That didn't happen often though! I have my own brand of suck! hehe. I find it a lot more fun than iRacing though, where the multiplayer just left me feeling alone, like I was hotlapping with people around.

LFS feels more like a mosh pit when it really gets going.

kudos, Scawen. mad respect for a dev willing to raise the bar on what the user base (fan base?) can expect in terms of responsiveness.

oh and isn't it true that no news is good news? after all these years this is the first time I've witnessed the forums getting hot about problems getting online in LFS

Quote from Kencan :

Yep, still lurking! And I have to say, "Wow!" at the amount of former teammates that are posting here. Good on you guys!

wow, no kidding! I still get a kick out of seeing the old NASSA ppl post stuff. where did the time go. ah well may we meet again in leagues or something!

Quote from Dennis93 :

Please tell me you have been playing since 03 on demo or something.

You've seen nothing of LFS if you joined this family in 07.

just to soothe you, this is my second account. the first, Execution Style was abandoned after some other people started using it and so I asked the devs to ban it

I guess my real forum join date for that one is 31st March 2004 so I reserve the right to feel old skool! yeah! I just got a bit of nostalgia reading in this thread about the days you had to earn 500 points to unlock the XRT. I still remember driving down the straight at blackwood and feeling the power and speed of that turbo through my mouse... ahhhhh yeahh!

I showed the nice wood cockpit I built to my family when they visited in november. my brother and step dad liked the sim so much they started talking about building their own right away. LFS is still being discovered by the next generation of old skoolers I think!

some random screenshots from Scawen's, Eric's and Victor's workstations

still here, but haven't been online in a while... the online experience has its moments... probably leagues are the answer for the real racing in LFS, but for the moment it's mostly an offline game for me since I built a cockpit using a computer with no internet access.

in a little while I will likely finish this rally pack I'm working on, one mega point-to-point layout per track. hopefully someone besides myself does offline point to point rallies

have to say that after all this time, nothing equals LFS for "getting my fix" when it comes to driving a virtual car. iracing keeps spamming my inbox with offers but... I dunno, would rather drive the car than have it drive me.