Found weird bug with bike suspension. If you select stock set, make a new one and raise the front to max then pick color, front wheel moves back a bit. Click on setup and it moves forward. Wish it was only visual bug, but once you spawn, the wheel is slightly back. Resetting the bike fixes it, though after some braking, accelerating, not even 100 meters, it moves back.



For Chimera it does weirdly only on Standart and Custom 2 configurations. other 2 configs with golden forks spawn correctly, although they still have same moving wheel bug in garage while selecting colors and setups.

Also i'd like to point out that swingarm moves away from the wheel if you increase the ride height a lot. Well it moves a bit either way just less noticable. But i guess there is no way for it to know where the wheel should be attached to.

Neutral gear indicator is needed for some (probably most) bikes.
I've managed to hack it on Vulcan 998 using VWS multi function display set to green color. It lights up when gear is in neutral and area around "N" in cutout goes green.




Couldn't get it working on other bikes as Chimera X1 is using formula clocks where multi function display is not available and Reaper X1 uses different display set to grey color.

Quote from Scawen :

Do you have a suggestion for a multiplier for the maximum brake force? I mean how much higher the brakes should be?

I tried allowing double for bikes (because 1 front wheel instead of 2 - needs more "brake per wheel" as you noticed) but it seems to be a lot more than needed. The disadvantage then is too much range on the slider. So maybe you have a better suggestion for the multiplier?

I don't know what multiplier it is now, but for a 200kg bike with a back seat enabled for a passenger, lowest brake pressure is around 150 and highest is about 650 Nm which is more than plenty. I personally use around 400-450 on Chimera X1. Some might use more idk but rear wheel lifts a lot then, unless for slow speed braking and doing stoppies.

EDIT: One thing to note is that Chimera X1 without enabled rear seat, has max brake pressure of 398 Nm, which is kinda low, especially if you want to play around with stoppies.

Last edited by Drifteris, Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:05.

Quote from Slashpca :

On bikes they crash brutally on the high speed kink style corners on West Hill and the start finish at Blackwood on motorcycles for me. Seems as though they come in way too fast and start to steer way too late. If I lower them to level 2 or less skill they stay on track but they're hilariously slow elsewhere.

I've tested your bike on Westhill and they can't even make past the second turn without sliding off the road (out of 10, 2 crashed on the first turn). Must be issue with insane downforce on that bike.

I love these new physics now, thank you Scawen, i got no more complaints. Its as good as it's gonna get in these old physics. You can actually drive fast now without fighting the bike too much. Offroad driving ability also increased a lot even if as side effect.

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but bikes need stronger brakes. You can get stronger brakes by adding a back seat but it's more of a work around. Most sports bikes and normal bikes might have a back seat, but super bikes and motogp oriented bikes do not, so it's kinda weird to have that setting on for them otherwise their brakes are somewhat lacking, especially after bike physics update.

Quote from kristofferandersen :

I'm not able to get the view low enough to see the dashboard gauges on the bike.

I use custom view so you can actually move it back a lot more in Y axis, sort of placing it inside the riders helmet so it doesn't obstruct the view and then pitch it down a bit.

Quote from Scawen :

To my mind, the D45 low speed model has many advantages over D44. So I would like to really understand what exactly is the issue you experience, what makes the "drunk rider" experience of D44 better (at low speed) than the more "in control" experience of D45.

While yes the D45 is a lot more stable at low speeds and it's harder to fall (i assume for people who use mouse or gamepad), it also limits you severely. With D44 i can drive through tight corners a lot faster by flinging the bike left and right. Yes it's a lot easier to fall but it's also a lot more maneuverable.

I've attached a layout and 2 replays one with D44 and one with D45 so you can hopefully understand my problem. If you enable virtual steering gauge, on D44 i don't even max out the steering angle on those corners while on D45 i max it out and then have to wait for the bike to actually do something. It's also a lot slower because of that.

In my mind D44 is more "in control" at low speed, as you do the driving, D45 sort of takes the control away from you because it expects you to fall and slaps some training wheels on I mean that's how it feels like.

Well i did an even faster lap on Westhill international (added SPR), could've gone faster but was a bit cautious with hot tires at the end there.

Really love the stability now, it's super stable on braking zones, fast corners, even bumpy roads are not a problem now. Before the bike would unsettle a lot if you tried to take a fast corner on a bumpy road. And it's still as nimble as before.

Quote from Scawen :

With such a report, it is better if you can tell me a specific bike and roughly what speed and what you were trying to do. Otherwise I really have no idea where to start.

I think what Marty is trying to say is that low speed model and interpolation between the low and high speed models have less sensitivity and you have to turn the wheel more. I don't really like it myself either. High speed model feels very responsive to controls so driving above 72km/h all is good but when you drop below that, sensitivity starts to decrease and you have to turn the wheel more to make the corner. I suppose it drops sensitivity gradually and that's why it feels weird and unresponsive and hard to know how much to turn the wheel at certain speed.

I'd prefer D44 low speed handling it was very responsive, doing low speed figure 8's or u turns on a small road was so easy. Good way to test that between the versions is to load Karting national it has plenty of slow turns. I'm sure most of the bikes act the same but i was using Reaper X1 for testing that.


Also, is tire digging into the ground will be fixed in the new tires physics? Kinda messes up wheelies and stoppies now

Last edited by Drifteris, Sat, 28 Oct 2023 15:09.

Quote from sinanju :

I get a 'replay OOS error' when I try to play both of your files.

I'm using 0.7D44.

It seems like SPR files don't download mods, so if you don't have it then you get the error. Try downloading it through mod browser in-game first then launch replay

I did my best laps that i could do on D43 and D44 to compare the physics. I've attached replays and setup if anyone wants to check it out. I ran it with 30% of fuel, with wheel and pedals set to 120 degrees rotation in-game and 1.0 wheel turn compensation and 25% ffb on my TMX wheel.

Surprisingly managed to do a faster lap on a D44 even with wobbly nature of braking but i tried to be as smooth as possible. Turning and aiming for apexes is much easier so that way you can get the best line without much guessing. I might have done some mistakes but it's hard to push those tires without them losing traction in a split second.

For nearly 2 years now i've been driving mostly bike mods and i pretty much got used to the old bike physics. But something was odd and i guess it's that sideways movement while cornering. You have to lean into the corner way earlier, sort of guess and then hope that you hit the apex. Of course i know the WE2 track very well so i didn't need much guessing how to drive on it. But yea you have to lean a lot sooner and then when you lean a lot, you have to lean a little bit more and the bike seems to corner way better, but it's only at the near fall limit, very weird. And of course i abused that on this lap, or at least i tried. Also it seems to take sharper turns slower as well i suppose because of it running wide.

All in all, i think D44 feels way better, more responsive and needs less guess work to take turns, especially on these big wide circuits.

Quote from NENE87 :

@Drifteris do you use rear break?

No because it's not effective at high speeds and if you tap it while braking it will unsettle the bike even more as rear wheel becomes light so it locks up easier as well.

Quote from Scawen :

Interesting, thanks. I'll have a look at some point in the next few days. If you could tell me specific ways to check it out and compare the versions, that could be helpful. E.g. particular bikes on particular corners that show up the difference.

It's mostly noticable on any straight when hard braking from at least 280 km/h. Simpliest way to test it is to do it on Layout square. Reach 280 km/h with Reaper X1 or Chimera X1 and then brake hard to a stop.

I've tried improved bike physics and me as a superbikes enthusiast i found few issues. I like how it's more agile, pointy, idk how to describe it, less understeery? on corners. Surely does feel better in that aspect.

However i found out that bikes tend to be a lot more unstable now under braking. The death wobble that i was so trying to get rid off on my bikes and it sort of worked till D44.

Reaper X1 tubes and masses for example that were super stable under braking before.


I don't know whether that's because of removed camber thrust or because of wheel masses being at the center of the wheels now, but i don't really know how i could fix that now, if it's even fixable.

I managed to break AI (get it stuck in a pile ). They do drive better now, still making some bad overtakes that causes them to go wide and offtrack but a lot less than before. Also it would be nice if AI used random color suits though.



I bet AI could drive slightly faster (and lean more) with my bikes as they don't wobble on corners. Since they collide with other bikes rather often anyway why not increase their speed, for PRO skill level, other levels could be slower like it is now.

I think i forgot to mention that it was on PRO skill level as they do drive a little bit faster. On easier levels they drive very slowly so obviously they wont run wide as much or at all.

Quote from Scawen :

Is there a way I can set up the grid so that situation happens nearly every time?

A reliable reproduction method with the smallest possible grid would be helpful so I can use speedup in the debug version. The debug version of the code runs a lot slower.

6 REAPER X1 bikes at Westhill international, using stock setup. Almost every time someone will take wrong line and end up not being able to take the corner.

Yes they can recover from mass pile ups now, however i think the main issue is that they don't know how to take sharper turns. There is a group of bikes on track and they overtake them on the left which puts them on a sharper left hand turn and they just can't do it

Them not knowing how to take a sharper turn causes those wide turns under braking as well. Maybe tell them to lean more if they are far from racing line?

Thanks Scawen for another interesting update, i noticed that bikes tend to take some corners very wide and ends up on the grass and then in the big pile they cant reset for some reason lol.

Not sure if bug or not (probably not) but s_clock_formula dials are white from third person. Not game breaking but looks kinda weird since it should be black, at least on my mod. I've updated it to be fully lit and it's kinda more noticable now, before only indicator bulbs on side of lcd were white

Quote from KiiT1337 :

Ignore that i mismatched stuff, btw, another thing from the wheels being as "hub" from the last update, shouldnt the disc brakes be attached to the wheels? instead of the suspension >.>

They are attached to wheels if you are using D32 or later version of test patch.

Quote from Scawen :

I'm not sure how serious this problem is (or if I'm seeing the full problem). I think you are talking about the user customisable colours, and that any the mod creator adds for the new hub objects will end up on the left side of the screen (with the body colours) instead of the right side, with the other wheel colours?

But how much of a problem is this? At first thought it seems like it would be hard to change how this works, but of course I will look into it if it is bad, or could cause problems in the future.

So basically it takes one color slot of 4 possible for the body. It's not a huge problem though, i just thought it's kinda confusing a bit and it limits coloring options.

One issue i think is that hub objects are using body colors, so it's a bit weird in a way if let's say a bus front wheel and rear wheel colors will be separate.

Works great! Thank you, Scawen.

As a fellow bike maker i'm looking forward to your work, knowing that your past mods have really high quality. If you got any questions regarding physics, feel free to ask me.