I agree with Mike. As a physical experience the two just can't be compared.
However, what you do get from sim-racing that is the same as real life is the tension before a big race, the intense levels of concentration, the incredible frustration when it goes wrong, the unmatched joy when it goes right, and the satisfaction when you've achieved something above and beyond what you are normally capable of.
That's what sim-racing does for me
However, what you do get from sim-racing that is the same as real life is the tension before a big race, the intense levels of concentration, the incredible frustration when it goes wrong, the unmatched joy when it goes right, and the satisfaction when you've achieved something above and beyond what you are normally capable of.
That's what sim-racing does for me
Kids are better than adults at picking up complicated cognotive systems. All you have to do is tell them, and they'll almost certainly remember for next time.
I'm sure GPL used to give you a little text hint if you were sat still for an unusually long time (just a little message that popped up - 'press F1 for help'). Something like that would be enough.
I'm sure GPL used to give you a little text hint if you were sat still for an unusually long time (just a little message that popped up - 'press F1 for help'). Something like that would be enough.
I think fear is replaced by confidence as you gain experience of real racing, unless something horrible happens. I remember the first time I went karting and there were corners which I now know were easily flat, but at the time seemed utterly impossible. As you gain experience behind the wheel, your confidence grows, you begin to really understand where the limit is, and you start concentrating on going faster above anything else.
By the end of my first trackday, I was just happy that I'd had the experience and not killed my car, or myself
By the end of my second, all I wanted to do was go out again and go faster. The confidence I had in the car meant I was beginning to forget about the consequences and push harder and harder, and enjoying every second of it.
If I didn't have to drive my car home again that day, I suspect that confidence would grow at a faster rate. Knowing that you need to take the same car to the supermarket the following day probably does hold firm in the back of your mind no matter how many times you go
By the end of my first trackday, I was just happy that I'd had the experience and not killed my car, or myself
By the end of my second, all I wanted to do was go out again and go faster. The confidence I had in the car meant I was beginning to forget about the consequences and push harder and harder, and enjoying every second of it.
If I didn't have to drive my car home again that day, I suspect that confidence would grow at a faster rate. Knowing that you need to take the same car to the supermarket the following day probably does hold firm in the back of your mind no matter how many times you go
I've been racing R/C cars on and off for 10 years, although I'll be retiring soon while I go travelling. My trusty Axis 2 can still kick arse amongst the newest cars, it's really the best handling R/C car I've ever driven. Despite it being a few years old, it can still compete with the latest cars.
Wow, I couldn't disagree more and the number of handling awards the MX-5 has won would also suggest otherwise. Under no circumstances has my MX-5 been as unstable as the XRGT. There is no comparison.
The MX-5 is a tail happy car but it is also a balanced one that only slides when you want it to, not on almost every turn of the wheel. Put simply, you have to be trying to drift to get an MX-5 to drift whereas the XRGT, like most of the LFS road cars, you spend half your time working to stop it drifting.
Ah I see, I figured you meant the later MR2s or MX-5s. Yes the mk1 and mk2 MR2s handle like water balloons, I wouldn't even consider putting them in LFS. The last generation MR2s are brilliant, however, it's just a shame Toyota made them look like Lego cars and forgot to put any luggage space in them.
eh, why on earth would you think they're unstable at high speed? The MX-5 is designed to handle at it's best at 60mph but it's perfectly capable up to and over 100mph.
Obviously, I'd love an MX-5/Miata in LFS and I think the only problem would be the lack of power which is a bit frustrating on track, and would make some of the bigger circuits in LFS incredibly dull. On the other hand, the autotests would be fantastic fun
I was really hoping the RaceAbout would recreate some of handling qualities of a well built roadster. At the moment it's some way off that, unfortunately, but I suspect that will improve significantly as LFS evolves.
It suggests Renault will leave F1 at the end of 2006. Flav knows and since he's Alonso's manager, he's secured a decent drive for him in 2007. I hope that's not true but it does make some sense.
I think it's fair to say that nobody would have heard of the RaceAbout if it wasn't for LFS, so it certainly is good publicity. It looks ace both in reality and in the game but I hope it handles better in real life
:mischievo Anyway, for sponsorship, the billboard approach is somewhat predictable and I'm not sure how successful they would be. How about a more integrated approach such as tyre companies, steering wheel manufacturers, tuning companies etc.? Surely seeing a Momo wheel every time you race would have more effect than a billboard somewhere far off your line of sight.
I agree with you there, I don't think a tight and twisty track would play to LFS's strengths. The challenge of Nurby is a personal one whereas LFS only shines when you're amongst fellow racers.
GPL was such a pleasure to drive you could bomb round a track on your own for ages and get great satisfaction from that. RBR also manages to achieve this, which it should, being a rally sim. On the other hand, I find hotlapping in LFS uninspiring. Even to learn a track I'd rather go online and stay out of everyone else's way than scoot round on my own.
The suspect handling in LFS needs to be sorted before something like Nurby would really work.
I expect nKPro to be less compromising than LFS but I'm sure the policies will have been tamed from the approach taken for Namie. The inability to reset, or turn damage off was one thing that I always felt was wrong, for example. It's all very well saying that's because it's a hardcore sim, but when you're learning a new track and the gravel traps and grass doesn't work as they should, it's incredibly frustrating to find yourself sliding towards the wall for the 10th time.
Hahahaha! That still bothers you, after all this time!? Didn't you ever wonder why you were the only person who had an issue with it? :spin:
Incomplete software tends to have incomplete elements in it, that's what defines it as incomplete. Slating it for that is beyond ridiculous.
Meanwhile, I agree that LFS does look a hell of a lot better on replays. The way the cars move around on external views is better than anything else around. The problems with LFS are in the subtlety of the physics engine, which wouldn't show up on a replay too well.
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I caught the end of it and it does look super funky. Full marks to Honda for being brave with a hatchback. The problem is, while that model does look superb, I'm not sure what the basic model will look like, with tiny steel wheels, no foglights etc. It could look quite odd.
Err, I've no idea where you would get that idea from. I don't think your average 'ricer' is going to be able to afford a Type-R, and I've never seen one with any vulgar mods on it. You can't deny that it's a stunning machine, and anything that can put in respectable laps at Nurby shouldn't be disregarded.
Anyway, I'd certainly have one as they're supposed to be great fun. They are dull to look at though, I agree with you there.
If you can find an S2000 owner who says they're anything other than brilliant, then I'll concede.
I know nothing about Integras, so feel free to step up to the soapbox
And to get back on topic, I should have mentioned earlier, that is a superb advert.
I don't think it was ever officially recognised by Audi as being a problem, so the truth will probably never be public knowledge. They quietly suggested to the TT owners that a free spoiler was available. There were just a lot of stories of people losing control at over 100mph, which is a bit worrying.
Clearly Audi never expected anybody to drive their fashionable cars at high speeds
Glare would be good but not the stupid lens effect that so often plagues games. Flight sims have been implementing decent glare brilliantly for years.
However, surely glare is only relevant where time of day is an issue and in LFS at the moment, it's not. Most track stuff is done at times of the day when the sun is too high to be an issue.
However, surely glare is only relevant where time of day is an issue and in LFS at the moment, it's not. Most track stuff is done at times of the day when the sun is too high to be an issue.
Ooh, I'll try this setup tonight. I've been looking for a decent setup for the RAC since S2 came out.
I hate it when this happens on forums. A ridiculous discussion starts about something that has no basis in fact.
For what it's worth, nobody said the model only "works" with race cars and considering nKPro will be moddable, I suspect they will have considered road cars somewhere along the line. On top of that, the outdated Namie is evidence enough that road cars can be simulated on a par with LFS.
Apart from the Civic Type-R, and the S2000, obviously
Is it really worth arguing over what kind of menu they use? :rolleyes:
The important stuff is what happens on track and it's difficult to see how nK won't at least match LFS for that element. It'll be great having a wide selection of decent race sims after so many years of darkness. Namie is a good indicator that the tyre physics and 'feel' of nKPro should be right up there, with a good chance of setting the new standard. In some respects, I believe Namie is already above and beyond anything out there.
Conversely, I doubt it will have as many features as LFS (only single seaters to start with) and the multiplayer is bound to take some time to perfect. Getting people online is also difficult, as a list of empty servers is a real turn-off, so the multiplayer element will inevitably take some time to gather momentum.
The bottom line is that this is great for all of us because it will help to drive the devs of all products on.
The important stuff is what happens on track and it's difficult to see how nK won't at least match LFS for that element. It'll be great having a wide selection of decent race sims after so many years of darkness. Namie is a good indicator that the tyre physics and 'feel' of nKPro should be right up there, with a good chance of setting the new standard. In some respects, I believe Namie is already above and beyond anything out there.
Conversely, I doubt it will have as many features as LFS (only single seaters to start with) and the multiplayer is bound to take some time to perfect. Getting people online is also difficult, as a list of empty servers is a real turn-off, so the multiplayer element will inevitably take some time to gather momentum.
The bottom line is that this is great for all of us because it will help to drive the devs of all products on.
So has anyone tried the namie version of netKar yet? I've just had a blast after not touching it for over a year, and it instantly felt brilliant.
When nKPro is released, I've no doubt that LFS will have it's biggest competitor ever (well, the reality is that most people will probably get both).
For those claiming it might be all about the graphics then you're quite wrong. They are in-game shots - no Photoshopping - taken from the replay mode which raises the graphic quality with the extra processing power normally used for physics. That idea is used in Gran Turismo so that screenshots always look superb.
But, don't let that fool you. The physics have always been the focus of nK. I'm sure this will be more hardcore than LFS as Stefano has a history of making no-compromises when it comes to realism. It's also worth noting that they have a number of motorsport partners involved including a Formula 3 team.
Another important element is that the release of nK will be followed by a development kit, allowing mods.
Anyway, there will be a demo on release so there's no need to take my word for it
When nKPro is released, I've no doubt that LFS will have it's biggest competitor ever (well, the reality is that most people will probably get both
).For those claiming it might be all about the graphics then you're quite wrong. They are in-game shots - no Photoshopping - taken from the replay mode which raises the graphic quality with the extra processing power normally used for physics. That idea is used in Gran Turismo so that screenshots always look superb.
But, don't let that fool you. The physics have always been the focus of nK. I'm sure this will be more hardcore than LFS as Stefano has a history of making no-compromises when it comes to realism. It's also worth noting that they have a number of motorsport partners involved including a Formula 3 team.
Another important element is that the release of nK will be followed by a development kit, allowing mods.
Anyway, there will be a demo on release so there's no need to take my word for it
Both
Kunos/Stefano is experimenting with a synthetic sound engine but unless it's significantly better than a sample based one, they'll ship both and give the user the option.
For anyone wondering about the physics, nKPro is an evolution of what was basically a hobby project a few years ago before the developer decided to go full time on it. The old version is still available, free and you can download it from locations found here:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=220656
In those days, each car had slightly different physics so some drive better than others but in my humble opinion, despite being a few years old, the single-seaters are still by far the most accurate simulation around. They're truly awesome to drive. Some of the other cars are a bit nuts - the Ferrari GTO and Zonda are worryingly unstable
Anyway, it's a free download so I'd recommend you try it for yourself but if you do, make sure you spend more than a few minutes with it because they're a bitch to drive on cold tyres, and it does take some time to get used to how nK drives.
There is a half-decent multiplayer option with Namie but it was new and the lobby system wasn't working properly. It takes a lot of effort to get it up and running, and can be a bit unstable at times, but it's fun when you get there.
Remember that it was basically a hobby back then so there are obviously bugs and issues with it but when out on track and driving you should see the quality.
And nKPro will be a full product, so consider Namie and then multiply
My mate had one for a few years and they're pretty good. They share the same platform as the Probe which is reputed to be quite a decent chassis. The V6 produces a lovely sound but the performance doesn't completely live up to it, unfortunately. It was OK, but the acceleration didn't really thrill me when I was a passenger in it.
Being a Mazda, the engine at least is built to survive a direct hit from a nuclear weapon, and being based on a Ford I would imagine parts are easy to come by and fairly cheap. My mate's was well over 100,000 miles and it seemed to run as sweet as new.
He only got rid of it to save a bit of cash for the birth of his first child.
Why? If LFS is to be a realistic simulator with realistic cars, then these two things should be included.
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Eep. I was going to vote LFS but I had sudden flashbacks to the brilliance of RBR, and had to go for that instead. I think it's a better simulation because the quality of the physics has set a new race sim benchmark, but LFS beats probably it as an overall package, for the quality of the multiplayer and dev support.
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