I can't go this year due to having fulfilled my car-related events quota for 2005, but I went to the first show in 2003 and can recommend it. There were some great cars on display and I had a good old chat with a bloke from Radical (who insisted on telling me I could afford one 
) but the arena show is the main thing and it's great fun. It's basically Top Gear Live.
) but the arena show is the main thing and it's great fun. It's basically Top Gear Live.Well, not quite, only the record attempts have to be done in the US. Car top speeds are usually tested at proving grounds like Millbrook, which has an enormous banked 'bowl'.
You're right that a runway wouldn't really be long enough for top speed tests though. I was thinking of a location that would be useful for more than that (since it's a pretty pointless exercise), and an airfield circuit, such as the one they use for Top Gear, would suit LFS down to the ground.
I wonder what sort of licensing issues there would be around recreating somewhere like Bruntingthorpe?
How about a big old bumpy airfield? There are loads of airfields in the UK that are used for trackday type events, with cones marking out a circuit.
Because a lot of them were former WW2 Bomber bases, the runways are enormous. Whether they'd be enough for an absolute top speed test, I'm not sure, but it'd be something different and given the trackday nature of many of the cars in LFS, it would fit.
Because a lot of them were former WW2 Bomber bases, the runways are enormous. Whether they'd be enough for an absolute top speed test, I'm not sure, but it'd be something different and given the trackday nature of many of the cars in LFS, it would fit.
I've mentioned this before 
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=714
This argument about not being able to hear other sounds in real life doesn't really work. It was an excuse used for not hearing the other cars in Grand Prix 2 in 1994. There's no decent reason it can't be done now.
When you're sitting in the pits, you'd hear noise. You'd hear pit crews shouting, the trackside commentators, other cars revving up, tools and machinery at work etc. And then there's replays, which would benefit tremendously from atmospheric sounds.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=714
This argument about not being able to hear other sounds in real life doesn't really work. It was an excuse used for not hearing the other cars in Grand Prix 2 in 1994. There's no decent reason it can't be done now.
When you're sitting in the pits, you'd hear noise. You'd hear pit crews shouting, the trackside commentators, other cars revving up, tools and machinery at work etc. And then there's replays, which would benefit tremendously from atmospheric sounds.
Ah, with it being an old airfield they might be a bit more willing to let you open them up a bit. There's just about nothing to hit on an airfield (except cones if they use them). Even the grass is rock solid and flat because it has to support the weight of aircraft.
Don't worry about the RWD thing because it won't be much of an issue. As long as you have an understanding of how RWD can affect a car - which you will have already having played LFS - you'll be fine. I've no experience of a Ferrari or anything but I'd bet a fair sum that it's a lot easier to drive than the RWD cars in LFS.
Unless it's wet.
You'll love it. Let us know after you've done it how you got on
That's quite a line-up
Assuming you're doing one of those 'experience' days, it's unlikely you'll be able to really explore the real limits of all the cars, unfortunately. They can't let anyone go nuts in their expensive machinery.
I have to agree with gabkicks in that LFS isn't really the best sim to learn the limits of a car because the grip issues leave it some way off reality in that regard. You'd be a lot better off doing a bit of karting I reckon, as it gives you a fundamental understanding of handling and reaction (and it's bloody good fun)
Which track is it btw? If you do want to do some preparation work, I'd recommend finding a sim with a decent representation of the track and learn the lines from that, if possible. They can be startingly accurate these days
Assuming you're doing one of those 'experience' days, it's unlikely you'll be able to really explore the real limits of all the cars, unfortunately. They can't let anyone go nuts in their expensive machinery.
I have to agree with gabkicks in that LFS isn't really the best sim to learn the limits of a car because the grip issues leave it some way off reality in that regard. You'd be a lot better off doing a bit of karting I reckon, as it gives you a fundamental understanding of handling and reaction (and it's bloody good fun)
Which track is it btw? If you do want to do some preparation work, I'd recommend finding a sim with a decent representation of the track and learn the lines from that, if possible. They can be startingly accurate these days
Ah right, I should have guessed because there's no wall at the Craners (thankfully!) :dunce:
I've seen bikes going round Donington. I'm not into bikes at all, but they looked terrifying. What is it, 120mph through the Craners? And then there's the problem of almost taking to the air over the hump under the Dunlop bridge etc.
I'd say that Donington's one of the biggest and safest circuits to crash on in the UK, but I'll stick with 4 wheels.
I've seen bikes going round Donington. I'm not into bikes at all, but they looked terrifying. What is it, 120mph through the Craners? And then there's the problem of almost taking to the air over the hump under the Dunlop bridge etc.
I'd say that Donington's one of the biggest and safest circuits to crash on in the UK, but I'll stick with 4 wheels.
Sounds like you went off at the Craner Curves. You're not the first and won't be the last, it's a hell of a sequence of corners.
http://www.trackdays.co.uk/Circuits/Donington-Park.htm
Great to hear you enjoyed it and you weren't hurt. I live just down the road, and was there last month (in my car) and had one of the best days of my life
http://www.trackdays.co.uk/Circuits/Donington-Park.htm
Great to hear you enjoyed it and you weren't hurt. I live just down the road, and was there last month (in my car) and had one of the best days of my life
It is the same colour (mariner blue) but my car was imported in 1997 so I think I'm safe, assuming the vid was taken around the time Gran Turismo 2 (?) came out
I agree too. I wasn't suggesting it should be a dull, VB interface, I was just making the comparison.
You've missed my point there though, I wasn't suggesting a difference in the functionality of the interface, just purely how it looks. You could have exactly the same menus, layout, buttons, sliders etc., but presented in a sort of Microsoft Visual Basic style the whole product would feel completely different.
It's a widely held view but I'm not sure it's true. I've never seen stats to back it up. If you look at the readership of PC gaming mags for example, the average age is mid-late 20s, and you get just as many adults with PS2s as kids, possibly moreso since they're the generation that have grown up with computer games.
Last edited by durbster, .
I remember that video from somewhere. It was running on bald tyres, which is why it's squealing like crazy at fairly low speeds. They straightened it out by tying the car to a fence post and reversing 
illepall
I just hope it's not a video of my car before it was imported...
illepall I just hope it's not a video of my car before it was imported...
Just to illustrate, in terms of interaction, the LFS setup screen could look something like this:
http://post-logic.com/softi/li ... CH_Setup/Pictures/25b.gif
It would be just as simple, just as effective from a users point of view, but it would make a huge difference in how it's percieved as a product.
And also, as AndyC points out, the information on screen while you're driving is exactly what you'd see in an arcade game.
Last edited by durbster, .
It's the unecessarily flashy stuff, such as music playing in the background, big colourful buttons, the spinning cars that you can drop etc. Although some of thse things are there for very good reason (especially the car in the setup screen), to a new user they just look cool.
It's a simple inteface that belies it's depth and that's a huge compliment because it takes a lot of skill to achieve that.
That's not the answer though, because simplicity appeals to everyone; young or old.
It's a simple inteface that belies it's depth and that's a huge compliment because it takes a lot of skill to achieve that.
That's not the answer though, because simplicity appeals to everyone; young or old.
Why does LFS attract a younger following?
It seems a little odd because the hardcore sim crowd has always been a pretty mature bunch in the past (I'm thinking Geoff Crammond, and then later Papyrus fans). Somehow, LFS seemed to capture a much younger audience pretty much from day one, but how?
The physics side of things does have a very accessible feel to it, especially with full support for keyboard and mouse users, but deep down it is incredibly complex which often puts people off. Also, the relative ease at which you could pull off some spectacular powerslides does have a certain appeal, so maybe that contributes...
I always felt the presentation was closer to an arcade racer than a full on sim (which is not a bad thing), but is that enough to really get a whole new generation hooked?
Or is it all a bit of a myth, and you're all actually old GPLers...?
The physics side of things does have a very accessible feel to it, especially with full support for keyboard and mouse users, but deep down it is incredibly complex which often puts people off. Also, the relative ease at which you could pull off some spectacular powerslides does have a certain appeal, so maybe that contributes...
I always felt the presentation was closer to an arcade racer than a full on sim (which is not a bad thing), but is that enough to really get a whole new generation hooked?
Or is it all a bit of a myth, and you're all actually old GPLers...?
Sweet, the more the merrier
The only problem with airfield days is that the super rough runway surface can destroy your tyres in no time. It's a great place to learn the limits of your car though, and super safe too.
The only problem with airfield days is that the super rough runway surface can destroy your tyres in no time. It's a great place to learn the limits of your car though, and super safe too.
Well, here's my new car:
Some mates and I have bought it for a banger rally called Staples 2 Naples. You have to buy a car for no more than £100 and get it 2,000 miles across Europe to Naples, Italy.
Here's our website for the journey - http://www.durbster.co.uk/s2n/
To be honest, our chances of making it are slim because the car really is on it's last legs. We've put a new radiator in because it overheats, we found that the carburetor isn't even bolted on, and the water pump has started to leak so that is probably about to die. Incidentally, if anyone knows where to get a water pump for a 1984 Mazda 929 Estate, originally registered in Saudi Arabia, please get in touch!
Some mates and I have bought it for a banger rally called Staples 2 Naples. You have to buy a car for no more than £100 and get it 2,000 miles across Europe to Naples, Italy.
Here's our website for the journey - http://www.durbster.co.uk/s2n/
To be honest, our chances of making it are slim because the car really is on it's last legs. We've put a new radiator in because it overheats, we found that the carburetor isn't even bolted on, and the water pump has started to leak so that is probably about to die. Incidentally, if anyone knows where to get a water pump for a 1984 Mazda 929 Estate, originally registered in Saudi Arabia, please get in touch!
It sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure it would work in practice.
If you picked a real world location for a track, e.g. Donington, then that's fine for me because I live down the road but for the vast majority of users it might as well be completely random. The extra resources required to get live weather information could be better used elsewhere, and it doesn't really achieve much other than being quite clever.
It would definitely have to be an option if anything. It could be bloody frustrating if you hated wet weather driving and we were having a wet British Autumn (and don't say, well if you can't handle the wet weather blah blah - new users will get put off). Or you could set it in Barbados instead
The same goes for night/day. An Aussie would have to race at night time continuously...
It sounds too much like a feature that would impress programmers, rather than users.
If you picked a real world location for a track, e.g. Donington, then that's fine for me because I live down the road but for the vast majority of users it might as well be completely random. The extra resources required to get live weather information could be better used elsewhere, and it doesn't really achieve much other than being quite clever.
It would definitely have to be an option if anything. It could be bloody frustrating if you hated wet weather driving and we were having a wet British Autumn (and don't say, well if you can't handle the wet weather blah blah - new users will get put off). Or you could set it in Barbados instead
The same goes for night/day. An Aussie would have to race at night time continuously...
It sounds too much like a feature that would impress programmers, rather than users.
Blimey :eek:
It's a bit of a concern that as this country gets hotter by the year, these bloody things and worse will be more common. The British are not ready for big, bitey insects yet
It's a bit of a concern that as this country gets hotter by the year, these bloody things and worse will be more common. The British are not ready for big, bitey insects yet
Just a quick thing to add regarding setups and road cars. I know that you can dial out a lot of the LFS grip issues with a decent setup, but if you ever look at manufacturer setup guidelines they're usually extremely vague. Even a car as tail happy as an MX-5 has really tolerances defined by Mazda, so the converse argument that road cars could be made to oversteer madly like the cars in LFS with a few setup tweaks really isn't a valid one.
Yeah I understand and agree with the point Gunn. We don't know for sure but I'd imagine there was a fair amount of fudging that went on with the GPL model, for example, to get it to run as well as it did on those old PCs, and yet that still feels quite natural and fluid. Anyway, I agree with tristan and yourself, I was just being facetious.
That's what a simulation is - it's a con. How they choose to do it is irrelevant as long as the end result is convincing enough. I actually prefer the more organic feel of LFS but GTR is pretty damn good a lot of the time, and it's grip model is undoubtedly a lot more realistic.
Why is this? I never did understand it.
Ah, funny t-shirts - comedy for those who can't think of their own jokes.
Please don't post your 'opinion' of rFactor unless you've actually played the bleedin' thing. It's difficult enough to get an overall judgement without the pointless comments from people who are just guessing what it might be like. :rolleyes:
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG