any chance of creating some "western" divisions for this league, with later start times (say 0100 or 0200 GMT)?

Quote from jtr99 :

I'd feel on shakier ground arguing with Jackie.

haha, werd.

truth is, 9/10 times i actually do yield to people who pass me on the inside, and only cling stubbornly to the outside line if a) i'm reasonably sure the other driver isn't going to hit me and b) i'm carrying enough speed to come out close to even on the exit.

the latter is a judgement call that has to be made in the moment, the former kindof depends on the philosophy of the other driver, which is what makes these discussions interesting.

very interesting thread!

my setups have tended to suffer from twitchiness under braking, which i've tried to tune out using the brake bias, toe, and bump damping, but i've ended up with cars that are stable under throttle and nimble in corners, but with a terrifying transitition between the two states, where the car has great potential to get squirly.

so as soon as i get home, i'm going to reduce my power lock and increase my coast lock and see how that works for me.

Quote from sinbad :

But if both cars are level approaching the corner, why should the outside car be allowed to brake later than the car on the inside?

because if the car on the outside brakes too late, he'll run himself off, but if the car on the inside brakes too late, he'll run BOTH cars off. if i'm out to lunch, i'm more than happy to be educated. i just want to UNDERSTAND this, and not blindly let people bully me around on the track.

Quote from sinbad :

Something the rule is actually there to try and prevent. It protects drivers being passed by encouraging them to concede the position they have already lost as soon as possible.

but if the overtaking driver did not assume the right to the outside on exit, they would not carry so much speed on the inside at entry, and perhaps the other driver would not have "already lost the position" by the apex. i'm saying that in some cases, it's the assumption about what will happen in the exit that allows the overtaking on entry to occur. take away that assumption, and the overtaking car has to take some responsibility for making a safe pass.

Quote from sinbad :

I don't know if I made my point very well

We all know the basic overlap rule. The inside car has the right to take the racing line. *Remember Schumacher taking off Montoya at a left-hander at Imola. That was borderline, on the very edge of fair, because he had full control over the line he was driving and pushed him out on the exit of a fairly long corner. But it was technically legal.* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

Generally you find that when 2 cars go through a corner side by side, both drivers are playing ball. It is great fun. But the rule is there to discourage it, because when drivers are going all out, accidents happen. If the driver on the inside brakes as late as possible, sidebyside should not even be an option for the outside driver, but if he tries it, the driver on the inside doesn't have much chance of not hitting him. But the driver on the outside should ALWAYS expect the driver on the inside to just follow the racing line, that's the point I'm making I think, because he is entitled to do so.

I don't condone anybody doing a Schumacher (or what countless drivers do each weekend no doubt), but if you stay on the outside when it's obvious who has the corner (and let's face it, 2 cars sidebyside it's fairly clear cut who has the right of way), it's your own risk, you should always expect someone to drive to the extent of the rules. I know I expect that from people.

i'm not accusing you of unfair play either, but i am still a bit confused/concerned, as i think it would be easy for someone to interpret this as meaning that it's ok to brake late and cut someone off as long as it's on the inside. if i tried a pass on the inside and ran the other car off the road because i carried too much speed to do anything but swing out on the exit i would fully expect to be cussed out.

Quote from sinbad :

They think that because they are able to stay side-by-side they are entitled to do so. The driver on the inside is allowed to assume the racing line, and that can mean running through the corner at full speed and so using all of the track on the exit of the corner.

Far too many people complain about being pushed wide when really the collision was not intentional and it was their own fault because it was their responsibility to concede the position.

ok, now i'm confused. if somebody is passing me on the inside, i'm obviously not going to cut them off, i'm going to stay on the outside, but why should they be allowed to take the inside AND the outside, and force me off the outside by swinging out on the exit? imo, if you come in on the inside and don't get far enough ahead of the car you are overtaking to let them tuck in behind you, then you should have to hold the inside line so they have somewhere to go.

[edit: haha, jtr99 beat me too it ]

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I'm not bothered about those who are genuinely trying and are new and struggling. That's fine, I give them extra room and they can be passed easily (usually when they crash). It's more those who have clearly spent some time playing LFS i.e. they are in the low 1:09s BLGP FOX, but still don't give room.

i guess they are a little more difficult to deal with, since they can use their lap times as a justification for their dangerous tactics. "i'm fast, so don't tell me what to do," etc. it's a tough one...

speaking as a person who has watched enough racing on TV to be familiar with all the rules and etiquette, is a good driver IRL (over 300,000km without a wreck, and no, i don't drive like a granny), but is relatively new to sim racing, i'd like to point out that it still takes some time and effort to learn how to control the car and pay attention to other racers on the track at the same time. my first few times out on the track i'm sure i pissed some people off with my dangerous moves, but it's starting to come together now.

i think that patience and polite words on the part of the more experienced drivers can help a lot, but when they get frustrated and start barking at the noobs for making mistakes, it just flusters them and doesn't help them to become better drivers.

Quote from faster111 :

check out my lfsworld stats.

ok, i checked them. i am not fast by any means, and get my butt kicked almost every time i race, but all of my times are better than yours. what do want us to say, other than that you need to keep practicing?

Quote from geeman1 :

How about making the AI try to copy the player(s). This would enable you to decide how the AIs drive. Drifters could teach the AI to drift and racers could teach them to race. I don't know how hard it would be to code, but it would be nice

although LFS kicks GTR in many ways, AI is not one of them. the GTR AIs are quite fast, and also learn to copy the driving style of the human player. that would be a nice feature for LFS. but if we are talking about improving the LFS AIs, i'd really like it if they were taught one simple lesson: how to avoid rear ending the cars in front of them!

Quote from Vain :

I just went down to the garage to check it, and the 911 in there has clutch and brakes mounted on the top, with gas mounted below. Like all other Porsches I drove. And every other car I ever drove beside one tractor.

Vain

what year? my room mate's 86 definitely has all 3 mounted to the floor.

Quote from mrodgers :

). Also, until they come out with a properly set up pedal system, ie, the pedals mounted from above without modification, and that is "affordable" to EVERYONE, not just those who have the cash to throw around for $300 game controllers, then shifter+clutch setup had better not become the standard.

what you talking about? IRL Porsche 911 has pedals mounted from below (because the linkage has to go under the driver to the back of the car). you wouldn't call a 911 "improperly set up " would you?

something with an overclocked geforce 7800 ought to do the trick.

i've found some of this year's races online (in the usual places) but i'm missing a few. anyone have links to any of the following?

4 - imola
5 - nurburgring
7 - monaco
10 - indianapolis
11 - magny-cours

cheers

G

(ps. would prefer english commentary, but german would be ok as well)

this weekend is no good for me, but i look forward to racing with you all next time.

i'd be interested. my timezone is GMT-7, so if the races were saturday or sunday afternoon/evening in europe, it would be morning/afternoon here...

thanks guys. i didn't crash, so next time you'll see me in a faster car.

haha. the thread that wouldn't die....

i just read the *whole* thing, and i don't have any suggestions that haven't been mentioned already, but i'd like to add my vote(s) for:

1) mid-engine sports car that doesn't suck (i hate the handling of the RA!)

2) small front engine, rear drive touring car (like bmw e30)

3) monster awd touring car (like audi rs4)

4) small rally car

5) monster rally car

6) another F1 car to compete with the Sauber

7) a couple closed wheel prototype cars


and i also feel compelled to say that i don't think the devs should spend any time on trucks, motorcycles, "drift cars" (i mean come on guys, the suspensions of all these cars are tunable...) or drag racing cars. to each their own, or whatever (and yes, i realize that if they added such vehicles, i could choose not to drive them), but still....

i'd love to have in-car adjustable torque split in the FXR, but barring that, making the "traction control" button work as a differential lock on the non-tc cars would be almost as good.

i did a practice run on my own last night, and managed 89 laps in 1hr with the FXR. ya, i could probably go faster in the FZR, but i don't want to crash.

can't wait until sunday.

imo, shorter races tend to encourage people to drive too hard on tires that are too cold, meaning more crashes and less fun.

as for the people who find longer races boring... i just don't get it (and i wonder what your girlfriends think...)

Quote from Blowtus :

You don't think it's a simple matter to combine a tps signal of 0% and rpm signal above some arbitrary value, and cut power to the injectors? Or does everything still run on carburettors in Canada?

The amount of people keen to explain stuff without basic knowledge of how and why things works is always interesting...


.

of course it would be simple to program the ecu to tell the injectors to do whatever you want, but unless you have an actual example of a motor that cuts them off, then you are speculating just as much as anyone else. i don;t doubt that some motors reduce the amount of fuel injected at high revs and low throttle, but i am still highly doubtful that any engine would cut the injection completely off, because of the potential damage to the motor. that was my only point, and i don't see why you gotta be so sarcastic.

note that the throttle isn't really a "gas" pedal. it's an "air" pedal. the fuel injection system adds the right amount of gas for the air that's going into the motor.

also note that the throttle is never really fully closed, even when your foot is all the way off the pedal. if it did fully close while the engine was running, a vaccuum would be created that would suck oil into the cylinders and potentially cause other damage.

so put two and two together, and you'll see that when coasting downhill, the motor is sucking at least some air into itself, and that the injection system will add some fuel to the mix, even though it usually wont be very much.