I tried doing a drift course backwards (on a PC), and the cars slides just fine, but the game intervenes once you get the car more than about 25 degrees sideways, adding grip and braking force to the front tires, that result in the car slowing down and facing sideways, probably in an attempt to get a player turned around into the right direction.
If you want to get picky, I find the smoke in NFS relatively more realistic than the engine sounds in LFS.
It's not the greatest, but it is different than the preceding NFS games, although I found the fantasy drift mode in Carbon to be more fun, although in Carbon the challenge is maximum speed without hitting track side walls. Sample videos:
Were you doing these runs in "casual" mode where the game assists do exactly what you describe? I'm playing nfsps on a PC in "king mode", and often found the car going off track or spinning out while trying to drift, until I learned the track, and the speeds that corners needed to be taken at. Still, there are some issues with the drift physics, mostly that straight line acceleration is very limited. I'm not a fan of drifting, I consider it to be the ice dancing of motor sports, but I did make some videos:
For non-drift modes, the "assists" are never actually off during offline play, in spite of the menu settings. They do get turned off during the higher difficulty online events.
In my opinion, there are 3 main differences between NFS's physics and racing simulation type physics: power induced oversteer is limited or prevented; driver induced understeer is non-existant; performance is exaggerated. In spite of these differences, the NFS games can be fun, and getting top lap times is challenging. First person shooters or Tombraider type games aren't realistic, but they're enjoyable also.
Except some, like me, have programmable controller software that allows me to program the perfect shift sequence (throttle, clutch, and shift control) with just the touch of a button, which would be an unfair advantage now that clutch overheating has been added and auto-blip / auto-cut have been removed.
Note, I don't race LFS online anymore, just an occasional offline session each time there's a new release. Because of my controller setup, the clutch heating, and auto throttle stuff aren't an issue for me, but it is an apparent issue for others. The clutch heating isn't realistic. I'm not sure there's a good answer for auto-blip / auto-cut on shifts, other than to note that not all players have the same budget or equipment for the game, nor can afford to abuse their controllers.
slipper clutches
Another point I missed previously is the usage of slipper clutches. These are clutches that deliberately slip during downshifts to limit engine braking, to prevent loss of control in a car and/or over revving of engines. Grand Prix Legends simulates these, but with no adjustment (it's why you can see rpm changes from throttle inputs with the clutch fully engaged). High end street motorcycles, like the new Hayabusa, and almost all racing motorcycles, have slipper clutches as well. Obviously a lot of clutch slippage with these, and yet they aren't overheating. For race cars, this is mostly limited to the smaller race cars powered by motorcycle engines. I don't know if any other modern race cars series use slipper (aka back torque limiting) clutches.
Sounds like a design problem, since F1, Japan's GT series, some European GT series, USA's Champ formula seires, all use computer controlled, no lift, sequential shifting. A typical F1 racing engine has a 4 pound flywheel to allow the fast rpm changes utilized by their extremely fast shifters. Companies like XTRAC make no-lift sequential shifters for a variety of race prepped cars.
Video of Michael Schumacher driving a Ferrari Formula 1 at Monza - 2003, shifts are almost instant:
If the F1 and GT cars can stand 1 to 2 hours of this type of shifting, I can't imagine that lower powered cars are going to have clutch overheating issues.
Also, I'd like to see these kind of shift speeds implemented in the LFS counterparts to these cars. That would be a welcom bit of realism to LFS in my opinion.
But my point is different. It's not about the pro's or con's of clutch heating, but instead about the realism, or lack thereof, of having clutch heating in the game.
I don't recall any players complaing about speed shifting for lap records in previous version of LFS. Note that most of the lap records in Grand Prix Legends were also done with speed shifting and damage off. Since it's a level playing field for all players, why bother adding an uneeded (and apparently unwanted by some) deterrent, if the solution isn't realistic?
I'd rather see the developers spend more time on the basic physics of the game (tire physics, chassis dynamics) than deterrents like clutch overheating or even hot spotting. Features like these could have waited until S3.
I'm not aware of clutch overheating ever being an issue in a real world racing situation. In any car setup for racing, the drive train would break long before the clutch ever gives out because of no lift shifts.
Unless the clutch gets hot enough to warp the surfaces, there simply isn't going to be heat generated during shifts to cause loss of clutch friction, unless the clutch is poorly designed for racing, but then such a clutch wouldn't be used for racing. Clutches are similar to brakes, but have a much larger area to work with, and spend much less time slipping than even the worst shifting possbible than the brakes, so the idea that clutch overheating would affect a car in a racing situation doesn't seem realistic. I've talked to a few casual and serious racers and they've never experienced clutch slippage due to bad shifting (just tranny or rear end breakage, and most of this occurs at drag strips).
Other than drag racing, the only time I've smelt burnt clutch is when someone was trying to back up a very long and narrow, steeply inclined, driveway (under construction, or else the guy would have been able to turn around) with the clutch slipping the entire time. In spite of the smoke and the obviously cooked clutch, there was no apparent loss of clutch grip after that (car was old 1980's Mustang GT).
In my opinion, this is one "feature" that LFS never needed, especially when there are other disconnects from reality that need more attention. For example, real race cars with sequential shifters can complete shifts between 50ms (1/20th of a second) to 30ms (1/33rd of a second), depending on rpm drop, yet LFS has yet to implement such fast shifting on the F1 or other no-lift sequential shift race cars in it.
Isn't there any software available for the G25 that will do the auto-blip or auto cut? Maybe buttons could be programmed to overide the throttle settings for this purpose?
Auto-blip and cut have never been an issue for me. If the game doesn't have it, I can just program it into the controller software (CH USB controllers in my case), so it's kind of a pointless issue for me.
It is a wear and tear issue for a typical wheel and pedal setup, which will increase the effective cost of playing the game.
I assume that the fast cars like the LFS F1 will simulate the real F1 cars with their computer controlled sequential shifters and clutches.
Do any of the other cars in LFS have real world counterparts with computerized sequential shifters, such as those used in some European (BMW 320i GT) or Japan GT (Honda NSX) series, and if so, does LFS emulate this, since after all, it's supposed to be a simulation of the real thing when the real thing actually exists?
Looks like they've truly captured the NFS ProStreet style of car customization, combined with the performance of the cars of LFS S1 (when LFS stood for "Live For Slow"). Click on picture to see video.
When playing some of the NFS games, I never realize how weird steering response is until I go back to a game I haven't played in while. Some of the games take longer to re-acclimate to. Underground 2 is one of these.
If anyone is interested, I have quite a few videos of racing game, from GPL to the NFS series (even the budget racers like Ford Racing 2) at:
Since I live near Los Angeles, I'm always concerned about the drivers that are distracted, usually it's cell phones, but the ones trying to drive while reloading are really a hazard.
The ricers only lasted for two of the games, NFS7 - Underground 1, and NFS8 - Underground 2. NSF9 - Most Wanted went back to supercars, the Porsche Carerra GT is the fastest car in NFS9. NFS10 - Carbon was a bit strange, an imanginary racing version of the Audi R8, called the Audi Quattro Lemans (looks like the new R8) and a very souped up Corvette Z06 are the two fastest cars (depends on the track for which one is faster). Carbon gave the Viper and Ford GT unrealistically bad handing. NFS11 - ProStreet's cars seem to more closely follow their real world counterparts in terms of performance for circuit ("grip") mode races, the Zonda is the fastest car in the game. There's a disconnect in drag racing though, since the upgrade process results in the Supra being the fastest drag car on a PC (under 6.7 seconds in the 1/4 mile).
Apparently you missed out on the online racing with NFS games, especially the older ones like High Stakes and Porsch Unleashed. Anytime you're competing against other humans, it's a challenge.
I don't know how tight that track is. Because a Caterham is light (1350 lbs), it can use the same 13 inch wheels and racing slicks used on Formula Fords, Mazdas, and Vee's, giving it about 1.4g's of cornering force. The stock Koenigsegg CCX gets just under 1.1g's of cornering force, so the CSR 260 would do well on a autocross type course, I didn't think it would do well on a larger race track. It's high coefficient of drag (.7) limits it's top speed to 155mph, while a Corvette Z06, which has a bit less power to weight (505hp, 3150lbs), even with a 175lb driver and stuff, has a top speed of 198mph and on most race tracks, would be faster (again except for near autocross like tracks, such as "streets of willow springs" versus the big track.
Just like a Harley Davidson motorcycle, the NSX is over priced and underpowered, orignally 275hp, later bumped to 290hp. Even though it's light at 2800lbs, it's no match for the later Vipers 510hp, 3400lbs, or the 2008 Viper, 600hp, 3400lbs. The Viper produces similar lap times to the Corvette Z06 and the Ford GT, all of which are descent and puts them mid-pack of all the supercars.
Porsche Carerra GT 621 hp, 3043 lbs is the next step up from these cars.
The Pagani Zonda F, with 602hp, 2700lbs would be next.
My previously posted favorite, the Koenigsegg CCX, 806hp, 2600lbs, is probably the quickest of the supercars on a race track. All of the higher powered cars are relatively heavy beasts.
I like both, but I spend about 4 times more racing than drifting, so I prefer racing. I also like arcade racing games as well as simulation racing type games. I also like other types of games like Tombraider and the Myst series. Outside of gaming, I like motorcycles (I own a Hayabusa), radio control gliders, and I used to play table tennis (but the current places are too far away). Sort of an odd mix of hobbies.
Until they start putting high leverage, long handled, ratchetless hand brake levers in race cars, they aren't really drifting, which is as much about using the hand brakes as using power slides and clutch kicking.
Plus what could be more exciting than hanging out the rear end at those incredible speeds, like up to 75mph. Ok, too scary, most of the drifting is done at around 50mph or less. Maybe there should be a new game, drift for slow.
Still when I think of drifting in games, there is semi-reality and then there is fantasy.
Koenigsegg CCX. 806hp, 2600lbs (curb weight). From the few tests I've read, it's one of the few supercars that manages to handle it's power to weight ratio well, doesn't scare the driver ever time the throttle is pushed, so mere mortals can actually drive it hard, and it holds the current official lap record at Top Gear (although a Caterham CSR 260 unofficially beat it). Plus, the car just sounds awesome.
Assists are not really off except for online racing. I only went online for a short bit, and it was obvious that some new online players were a bit suprised when the assists were really off. The online play is reasonably realistic in this sense, but no one is going to consider ProStreet to be in the same league as GPL, LFS, NR2003, or any of the ISI based games.
Except that because of mistakes made by drivers or being forced off track by another driver causes the cars to be severly damages if the curbs are too "aggressive". If it was your money paying to repair the cars would you want "aggressive curbs"?
Worse yet is the issue that a damaged car could go out of control and cause a crash with other cars. The car builders and the drivers want safe tracks.
Regarding curbs: a video of a McLaren F1, driven by David Coulthard in 2002 at Spa, and a 2003 Ferrari (not sure of driver) at Monza using the curbing. On a side note, regarding "realisim", the cars viewed in replays of various racing games never seem to truly duplicate the responses of real cars. To me, it's mostly suspension movment, and how the cars drift (for the ones that do drift). I'm not sure if it's the cars, the tracks, or some other factor, but although racing games are close, they just don't look "right", something is just missing. I think this is why Simbin made the comment that these are racing games, not simulations.
I've looked at more videos and it's simply speed through a course. There are normally two runs, driver "A" starts in the lead on the first run, driver "B" starts in the lead on the second run. The driver that catches up when behind or pulls away when in the lead wins. If it's the final pair, and it's close, sometimes they will do a second set of runs (it seems that for the fans, the final race will always be "close" requiring a second set of runs). If a driver passes another during a run, it's almost a guaranteed win.
This is how the top drifting classes, D1GP (Japan based) and Formula D (USA based) are run.
update - The speed of the car only matters if the driving is close. There are judges that look for the cars to follow the "line" (usually near the outside of turns), and there are GPS sensors used (in Formula D) to determine speed and drift angle.