Quote from JPeace :

The fuss is this. The rule is there. If everyone is breaking the rule, why the hell is the rule there in the first place? Either remove it or punish people properly is what Im saying...

I understand what you're saying and to an extent I agree. However, it's all very circumstantial, and as long as teams are allowed to communicate with their drivers during the race it always will be.

Had Massa made a deliberate mistake in turn 6, thus allowing Alonso to pass him on the exit in a more believable manner, I suspect there would be far less outcry, even if everyone was still fairly certain that the pass was engineered by the team. And that is the issue with the rule. There can be no black and white with this rule unless a team actually admits to giving the order.

Quote from JPeace :

Then you are agreeing that they did breach the rules set in place to stop team orders happening? If thats the case, then the rule breaking should be punished, and I cannot understand why people think it shouldn't. But of course they are denying that they breached the rules because they would put themselves in even more mess because they have owned up to it. However, if it is found out that they are to have breached the rules, then I fully expect the same actions to be taken against them for lying as the same happened with Hamilton at the start of 2009.

Clearly they broke the rules, James. My problem is with the irrationality of most people posting in this thread, and generally in the off topic area of this forum. It's very frustrating trying to participate in a discussion where 80-90% of people are completely incapable of reading people's posts and coming to a reasonable and considered conclusion, often contradicting themselves simply to support a biased and/or pre-determined opinion.

Would you tell me if you think teams should also be punished for swapping their drivers when they're not racing in the points? Be honest.

Edit: I think Hamilton's "lie-gate" scandal was a little different in that he lied in order to earn Trulli a 25 second penalty and deny him a podium finish. That was truly malicious and a very different incident to the one we saw on Sunday. Ferrari have clearly been lying to the press and to the FIA, but I can't believe any other team would be acting differently in the same situation, with 43 points at stake. They aren't actively seeking to damage other teams or drivers.

Last edited by joshdifabio, Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:02.

It's interesting reading and hearing those opinions which are along the lines of "why can't Ferrari just admit they used team orders and stop treating us like we're stupid?!" They are denying that they used team orders because otherwise they'd lose the 43 points they picked up in the race and at the same time cost themselves any realistic chance of fighting for either of the championships... May it be possible that those of you making that point are in fact stupid?

There also seem to be some very self-contradictory opinions regarding what makes the incident so very wrong. Some of you seem to be saying that had Massa moved over to give Alonso a lesser position, say 10th position for example, it would not be an issue. I would assume that almost everyone here would share that opinion. Okay, fair enough. But that would imply that your problem isn't with teams breaking the team orders rule, but is actually with teams swapping their drivers around for the race victory. In which case, you can't claim that what Ferrari have done is any worse than teams doing the same thing pre-2002.

Either the issue is with teams breaking the team orders rule - implying that it's wrong for teams to swap their drivers in any position, be it 1st and 2nd or 23rd and 24th - or it's only wrong for teams to swap their drivers for the meaningful positions, and therefore it's always been wrong.

Others are saying the issue is that Ferrari did it so blatantly. Some of you are even highlighting the fact that this was largely down to Massa wanting to make it obvious that he was being forced to let Alonso past. Whose fault was that then?

Haha, loving Smedley's interview.

The only solution is to remove the rule. We've seen Kovalainen letting Hamilton pass him in a more clever manner in the past, and as long as the rule exists team orders will remain but they'll be disguised. They can't possibly stop it so they should just allow it.

Edit: Not to mention the rather cleverly disguised manipulation we saw from Renault with Fisichella and Alonso since the rule came in.

Last edited by joshdifabio, Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:13.

Quote from DevilDare :

That is just so ****ing low its unbeliavable..

Not really unbelievable though, is it. We've seen it with McLaren and Ferrari several times before.

Edit: And Renault who used to sabotage Fisi's pit stops every time he was beating Alonso :P.

Quote from joshdifabio :

teamName: spdoRacing
car: FZR
number: 01
driver:
- {Egon-est, Egon Liibeon, Estonia}
- {Garfild12, Adam Wisniewski, Poland}
- {Ghost_CZ, Martin Silhanek, Czech Republic}
- {MarcG, Marc Gassner, Germany}
- {MARUS, Marek Jagiello, Poland}
- {Misan, Teemu Hirvonen, Finland}

Added Misan.

teamName: spdoRacing
car: FZR
number: 01
driver:
- {Egon-est, Egon Liibeon, Estonia}
- {Garfild12, Adam Wisniewski, Poland}
- {Ghost_CZ, Martin Silhanek, Czech Republic}
- {MarcG, Marc Gassner, Germany}
- {MARUS, Marek Jagiello, Poland}
- {Misan, Teemu Hirvonen, Finland}

Last edited by joshdifabio, Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:29.

Almost missed this one!

Today, Wednesday, 21 July marks spdoRacing's fifth anniversary in Live for Speed. The team has changed a lot over those five years, with lots of different members coming and going; particularly over the course of the last 18 months. The team has managed to win a lot of races with a lot of different drivers, claim a couple of IGTC titles, a few individual titles and has taken a lot of World Records!

The last year has seen a fairly extreme change in the outlook and mentality of the team. More so than ever, the team is centred around friendships between people who have known each other for several years, with racing increasingly becoming of secondary importance.

However, spdoRacing is still competing on the track and on Saturday, Egon Liibeon and Martin Silhanek will look to build upon the team's narrow lead in the IGTC standings and take a step towards a third successive IGTC title for spdo.

Unlike in previous years, we don't have any real news to accompany our birthday. I'm still working on a new website, which will improve on the current site in every aspect, but as my career becomes more demanding my enthusiasm and energy for developing the spdoRacing site dwindles. Likewise, new logos and skins are in progress but development is similarly slow.

If it wasn't for my team mates, long-term members and friends Heikki Jaakkola and Teemu Hirvonen I'd probably be long gone by now - as it is I'm sure I, they and the team will be around for a few more years! Maybe next year we can provide some news which makes more interesting reading .

Lastly, I want to thank the members who are still regularly representing us on the track; Matias, Egon, Martin, Adam and Marek in particular. Thank you!

Cake for those of you who read to the end! :cake:

Josh Di Fabio, Heikki Jaakkola, Teemu Hirvonen, Robert Witter, Jari Mattila, Ramon Blauwhoff, Marc Gassner, Martin Silhanek, Christoph Hofbauer, Mantas Brazinskas, Reece Pearson, Dmitri Tsubenko, Lukas Vieten, Matias Pikkarainen, Balazs Mihaly, Leonardo Forcinetti, Adam Wisniewski, Marek Jagiello, Egon Liibeon

Last edited by joshdifabio, Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:27.

Quote from Timo1992 :

http://www.esl.eu/de/sports/lfs/

But unfortunately it seems like they won't have a new season in future, because of a lack of interest in lfs (says the lastest news on their website).:ashamed:

but btw: Sorry for OT, once again gratz to Niall and I hope you'll enjoy your stay at us

And from what I've heard, they still owe people money from a year ago and are showing no real intention of settling those debts.

Sorry for the OT!

Remember MPR autosave.

GRIDLFS › FOX Cup 2010

You could make a program which looks in your setup folder for new files every few seconds and then checks any new setups to see if they're valid, before sending you a message in-game via insim saying "xxx.set is valid", "yyy.set is invalid" etc. That would allow you to check all of the setups in less than a minute I guess, even with a full grid.

But then you may have already thought of that .

Quote from BlueFlame :

... You say it as if it's supposed to 'get' to me. ...

Seems like it worked :P.

"Ignoring" you and still reading your posts seems a little pointless though.

Quote from PuTzBr! :

hi , well, thats the new gridlfs champ..
*snip*

thx .. ;]

These start times seem to be impossible. E.g. 30 laps at BL1R starting at 2100 and then the next race at 2130. And, for example, 24 laps at WE1 would take about 40 minutes. Please revise the start times or correct the race lengths if they're currently incorrect.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Josh, fixed the time mistake I made and also added another heat for each event , thought heats meant 2 sections so only did one.

Please update on spdo, also HEAT 2 replay in on ftp so it just needs to be added

The previous calendar was actually correct. I've sent you instructions on how to add pools now.

I read that HD onboard cameras aren't yet capable of operating under the endured by F1 cars, and that F1 don't want SD to be mixed with HD as it will make the SD shots look crappy. Don't know if that's true though .

Quote from RedBullGivesYouWings :

Red Bull gives you wings. At least, it does if you're Vettel

Haha, I totally missed this joke until now. Like it.

Quote from Shotglass :

still congrats paul i guess

lol xD

That tackle by De Jong was just unbelievable.

I feel bad for the Dutch, losing their third final, but I think Spain deserved it after some of the challenges in the first half... really never seen anything like it.

Still, they're quite lucky to have won the tournament after scoring just 8 goals in 7 games. Talk about lacking a cutting edge.

And Torres... pulled his hamstring and then totally fine for the trophy presentation? No chance. :P

Feel a bit sorry for Webb, too! I agree he bottled it but at the same time I'm pleased that we didn't have a final with 11 vs 10 or even nine for the last 50 minutes!

Quote from DevilDare :

Uhm.... I have every right to disagree with someone.... Its called having a discussion, you know...?

The smiley is not necessary imo and you tend to use it every time you respond to a post which you don't agree with. It just gives the impression that you disrespect whoever it is you're talking to. The same goes for the sarcasm.

Quote from AMB :

...holidays etc are different...

Quote from DevilDare :

I'm sorry. Please do explain how they are different?

It's obvious that visiting a country on holiday is different to establishing residence in a country for a prolonged period of time. I really think you should stop responding with such hostility every time someone expresses an opinion which is different to yours. Why ask for opinions if you only want people to agree with you? Back on topic; you can't possibly expect people to learn a foreign language just for the benefit of a week-long holiday.

I personally prefer people living in England to speak English but I don't have strong feelings on the matter. I do however think it would be wrong to relocate to a country with the intention of living there long-term without learning the local language. I'm not sure how common that is, though.

Quote from anttt69 :

Who the f is that Jake bloke who does the F1 on BBC, what a f**in idiot. He talks out of his arse most the time & has nothing to do with motor racing what so ever. Somebody needs to give him a good slap.

Apart from that, good race.

Haha

Come on, he's better than that guy who looks like a bird that used to do Grandstand on BBC and then the F1 on ITV, and who now does football on the same network.

He keeps it all moving quite well imo. The presenter types never seem to know anything about the sport they're covering, I'm not sure why that is.

Quote from JCTK :

Alonso should have known he should have give the position back immediately.

I agree to an extent, because when it happened it was one of those where I thought, "I'm not sure he should get penalised for that but I'm almost certain he will," and I suspect that him and Ferrari thought the same, so maybe they should have just given the spot back instead of risking it.

Having said that, I think it was actually quite marginal, especially if we are to believe that the drivers' representative in the steward's room (in this case Mansell) has some pull, as the BBC's pundits and former drivers Brundle and Coulthard both seemed to defend Alonso.

Quote from DejaVu :

Following on from the turkey incident, where the team sided with vettel instantly this qualy/race just adds to it.

I'd actually completely forgotten about the Turkey incident, which I thought looked more Vettel's fault than Webber's.

They sided with Vettel? Maybe the team are afraid of upsetting the German and seeing him leave in the future! I can understand Webber's frustrations in that case.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

Err.... no.

I remember races with refuelling where the only overtaking was in the pits.
2 stops vs 3 stops resulting in an advantage to one team.

Okay, and at the time that was quite frustrating. Now there is no overtaking in the pits... and there is still almost no meaningful overtaking on the track - certainly no more than we've had in the past.

We see people like Vettel overtaking drivers in seriously inferior cars and Schumacher, who sadly seems to be past it, quite regularly getting passed. Apart from that, the races are generally as good as over as soon as the race settles down at the start.

In the past we were left guessing as to the fuel loads of the various cars and we had the qualifying-style laps leading up to pit-stops and leading up to rivals' pit-stops etc. This at least gave us the opportunity to hope that there might be a change in the lead. As it is now, you know that the driver who is leading a few laps into the race is - barring some kind of drama - all but certain to win. It's incredibly dull!

What does everyone else think?

Last edited by joshdifabio, Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:29.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Although it probably was an harsh sanction IMO, there was a clear enough breach in the rules to penalise him. This incident reminds me quite a lot of the Spa and Magny 2008 incidents with Hamilton, same infractions, same consequences.

I find it good overall that the FIA seems to get some constistance with their decisions. Having former drivers judging with the regular marshalls is a good thing IMO, and probably helped it a lot. I just find it bad that the FIA doesn't give any black & white flags and almost always moves to a DT or just ignore the infraction. There should be a way to warn people, when the incident is not bad enough to ruin the pilot at fault's race, but still bad enough to tell him he's done wrong.

Thanks, those are some good points. Similarly to what you are saying, I think that often the punishment fails to fit the crime in F1. It seems to me like it would be a lot more fair if the stewards just said, "let him past, or get a penalty" if they were to decide that a pass was unfair. The penalties are a bit too arbitrary in F1, I think.