Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

Meh, probably making a new car doesn't take two years. But this is a new tyre model. It's like the basis of the game. If the devs change that EVERYTHING else that's based on that has to change too. And since LFS is a driving game pretty much the entire game is affected by those changes.

But I think we're in for a pleasant surprise. Since it's taking this long there probably is more in the pipeline than announced.

Maybe Scawen thought: "**** it, since I'm changing the entire tyre model, why not implement wet weather driving while we're at it?"
Or maybe the changes in quality are so great that the team decided to go straight to S3 and they are working on content and features for that now.
Connected to the new tyremodel might be an overhaul of the force feedback too.
Or connected to the tyre model and FFB also: bumby tracks! So the laserscanning of Rockingham in great detail is not a waste of resources.

I admit that I get pretty sad everytime I visit this forum. I'm always hoping for news, but I'm always disappointed when there is none. I too fear that the development of LFS will bleed to death. Not the community, the community will remain.
But we must remember that what LFS does, it does very,very good. The base is great. There is no sim where I feel the weight of the car as good as in LFS. And a lot of people complain about the engine sound. But I love it. It is not designed to sound like you hear it on TV. Because it's not a simulation of sound like you hear it from your TV. It's a simulation of how engine sound reacts to changes in engine load. That is done very well and I hope they never change that because of people complaining like netKar did.

The basis and its discerning features are among the best in the business, and with a new tyre model they will be even better. The devs need to build on that very strong base to bring it to the next level.

I suspect LFS will go to the next level and deliver quality. I believe it. I hope it.

If we've learnt anything from LFS history, is that expecting more than was promised will certainly end in disappointment.

It's really is misplaced faith, thinking LFS is going to magically turn around. Giving people hope when there's no evidence to support such a claim causes more grief in a community that is already dying.

People are entitled to think and believe what they want....Some think they are destined to win the lottery, but we all know that's very unlikely. The same principle applies here (IMO).

Nothing will change with LFS until the devs decide to take a new approach. What they're trying to achieve is a mammoth task and clearly beyond 3 individuals. Until they accept this fact, nothing will change.

Quote from kimd41 :

Theres a small chance that we might see a test patch this year, if not, I'm 100% sure we'll see a patch next year. I mean, there's not much left to do.

(emphasis mine)

What are you basing this on?

If you read the thread or simply searched for his posts you would see he has given several updates in recent months.

http://www.lfsforum.net/search.php?do=finduser&u=43

If you read between the lines... Still experimenting, no ETA, not working on it full time as it's a difficult challenge and motivations a problem. Eric MIA, no new content announced.

If the last 5 years count for anything, there hasn't been the usual subtle hints that leads up to a release (patches). Basically anything this year is extremely low. Check back in 6-12 months or when you get an email. (if you've registered)

Last edited by Macfox, Sun 21 Nov 2010, 09:41.

Quote from -V-Max- :

I'm not very active on the LFS forum, but keep checking them every day or so.

I must say, many of you speak just too much, but indeed, it is taking very long now.

An update, positive or not, would be helpful.

If you read the thread or simply searched for his posts you would see he has given several updates over the last 4 months.

If you read between the lines... Still experimenting, no ETA, not working on it full time as it's a difficult challenge and motivations a problem. Eric MIA, no new content announced.

If the last 5 years count for anything, there hasn't been the usual subtle hints that leads up to a release. Basically anything this year is extremely low. Check back in 6-12 months or when you get an email. (if you've registered)

Quote from logitekg25 :

but his way of doing so...he completely trash talked the dev's, and thats not allowed in my books..:mr-t:

Fundamentally this is where this community is going off the rails. If criticism fair or unfair, is going to be subject personal attack, out of love or loyalty to the devs, rather than objective scrutiny, then the community and game will suffer. Dismissing people with opposing views as fanbois, trolls or spoilt kids is a just lame attempt to discourage debate of sensitive, but pressing issues.

There's little to be gained by letting this forum turn into a mutual backslappers appreciation society and it's purpose isn't to fulfil the devs egos.

The devs and their legion of moderators understand this principle of harsh criticism while hard to swallow has it benefits.

Last edited by Macfox, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 17:58.

Quote from boothy :

http://www.mondaynightracing.com/

MNR is great and the last of several great AU leagues. If it wasn't for the efforts of these guys, LFS would be in a much worse place in AU. The same applies to other smaller regions around the globe. It's these MNR types that keep LFS afloat by putting so much time and money into running such leagues and maintaining interest. LFS would be largely forgotten about without them. Unfortunately they get little support or acknowledgement in trying to offset the decline in active LFS players. All leagues could do with an update of content.

Sometimes things are better left unsaid. Personal attacks aren't welcome here, regardless if you don't agree with some ones opinion or how they express their views. They're a disservice to the community.

Sure his views might be strong and unfair, but he paid his money and is entitled to express his dissatisfaction and has done so in the appropriate thread. It's a public record of a communities consensus and the hindsight will be interesting to some down the track.

Yes in EU +9:30 here. But farcar's a local (AU).

I think you must be getting someone else words mixed up. Never said they've abandoned development? My point has been about community engagement.

Hypocritical? Oh Please! I'll give you the benefit of of doubt.... It's Sunday night... How exactly does one produce evidence of nothing?

Let focus on the original point. You said progress is "obvious". How is LFS progress obvious?

Quote from farcar :

...and it's totally against his interest to lie about such things.

Ever worked in sales?


If you're think a the occasional post 60+ pages deep in a thread, by 1 of 3 devs is obvious, then the word meaning is "obviously" lost on you.

I'm not doubting their bold/good intentions, but they've said plenty in the past, which hasn't eventuated.

It's nothing to do with character. It's about actual evidence and your assertion that progress is "very obvious" and the above poster is wrong.

Yet to anyone looking at these forums or the website, would quickly conclude it's not.

You're entitled to believe in what you want including father Christmas, tooth fairies and the bunny rabbit, but the rest of us know better.

Quote from farcar :

Actually, it's very obvious that work is actually being done (just, slowly).

The only thing obvious is the claim progress is being made. There's no substance to back that up, unless you are a beta tester or a secret dev, which we all highly doubt.

If they release video/ pictures, or heaven forbid a (test) release, then you've got something. Other than that, you're really just basing you judgement on a few rare words from Scawen and Vic. Eric is MIA on this forum.

Quote from farcar :

The 'bwahaha' is on you here.

Really?

Quote from col :

No they can't as Scawen has explained.

The devs discovered years ago that if they release any details (like a list) of features in development, and then for whatever reason, cancel or change one or more items on the list, all hell breaks loose!
All the forum whiners start kicking off... kiddy idiots throw their toys out of their prams threatening to leave LFS... fools start claiming that they were promised xyz feature that has now been canceled and that the devs are amateurs and LFS will die as a result...

Isn't that the case now? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The truth is that LFS is an indie experiment. It's an escape from the conventional big corporate development paradigm. The devs have no boss to answer to or deadlines to meet in a practical sense. But with independence comes the challenge of on going self-motivation, discipline and planning. Without physical and visible progress there's no sellable product, no revenue and no future for LFS.

Scawen has admitted motivation is an issue. Dismissing the community is a big mistake and counter productive to this motivation issue. Maintaining community enthusiasm is key to boosting motivation and getting praise for hard efforts is an obvious example.

The ball is firmly in the devs hands. They need to make a decision to embrace the ways that made LFS the success it was circa 2006, or take the risk that masses will wait and buy S3 when/if it reaches that milestone.

Last edited by Macfox, Sun 1 Aug 2010, 02:47.

Quote from Scawen :

I think you are not correct about the contempt. We're just improving this simulator. I'm trying to program the tyres to behave as realistic as possible. It takes a lot of investigation and testing.

...

Thank you for the reply to my post Scawen. I'm sure you can see the boost it gives the community.

Individually, contempt may seem to be overstatement in hindsight of your reply Scawen, but my comments were directed at the devs as a whole, and Eric has certainly made his feelings clear, way before stale content was an issue.

The confessions about development control in respect to Eric's releases, is most interesting, but it does raise the obvious question of why we have seen little from his area?

At this point the community is screaming for content, paid or otherwise, so it hard to understand any logical reason for the 3+ years stagnation of content.

It would be really good to see some news or insight in this area as it would give the community a big boost and get players back on the track.

Quote from m1chi119 :

the limited Setup, will this be optional for each Server? or Do we all have to use it?

From Scawen's feedback, it a server option, which covers all cars, but the VW will also have very limited setup options too.

Quote from wien :

Judging by this forum, the "community" doesn't deserve respect. Respect is earned, not demanded.

Generally I would agree, but in the context of business, it's not a mutual relationship.

No.

Quote from farcar :

I agree that it's time the Devs updated the community, but keep some perspective.
There are no sheepstations at stake for you with this. It's just a game.
Don't be so agressive and demanding. You just come across as a bit of a wanker.

Fair suck of the sav. Perhaps you should enlighten us on your bipolar perspective, rather than shooting your mouth off with cheap remarks.

Believe me, the feeling is mutual when you make it personal.

Quote from richo :

There is a difference in that you don't print your plans on a website , and i,m sure your aware that when something is made public no matter how pie in the sky people will make the assumption that in some way it will happen or at least you will try to make it happen.

That is the situation that MacFox is talking about , and he is right there is no need to split hairs because we knew exactly what he was saying.

I find it so odd that we debate black is white over and over.

Couldn't have said it better.

There's always going to be extreme PoV that defies common sense, logic and evidence.

Sadly in last few years, the general community consensus has swung to a negative view. This thread (past included) and the website disgrace, enforces the dire state of LFS and the communities displease with the devs.

While the devs aren't obligated to provide any update. They should treat the community with a bit more respect and stop dangling the carrot.

The days of giving vague, open ended answers have gone. The time has come to provide some straight answers on LFS's future. Be it good or bad news, they owe the community that much.

The difference is negligible. Let's not split hairs.

Last edited by Macfox, Fri 9 Jul 2010, 08:37. Reason : revised

Get comfortable with it. That's the way it's all heading. The community is in decline and the few racers left are trying to keep the last clean racing servers alive. What's worse is without a patch in almost two years, the cheaters are running riot.

Be thankful that there's a few good clean low lag servers to choose from in your region. Outside of the EU time zone, the pickings are slim.

Quote from Flame CZE :

The devs never promised that.

Why keep peddling this lie?

Quote from Scawen :

Hello LFS Racers.

We are pleased to announce that we plan to release the new VW Scirocco in Live for Speed during the week ending Friday 19th December.

link to post

That plan was later scrapped.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello Racers.

We are sorry to have to announce that the VW Scirocco will not be released this week as planned.

link to post

Quote from deggis :

The devs basically stopped or reduced giving updates because any mention of some new idea would in the end lead to more whining if the idea didn't materialize or deliver in promised time like the VW... but they certainly do not problems with ignoring* the whining right now for another reason. They probably won't change this but I think it's better to have whining about a patch that was delayed (at least it shows the game is alive) than bitching about lack of communication and going even as far as declaring the game dead.

* I mean like not allowing it to affect everything they do

If there was regular updates, expectations would be managed and there wouldn't be the disappointment, frustration and whining about slow progress of missed releases. In all fairness, the devs have never really subscribed to a frequency (weekly) that would achieve this. At best it's been months and that's just added to the problem.

Something has to change. Either there's a significant release, or the devs give some time frame. The community isn't going the wait forever, on some open ended promise of an update, that could be days months or years away, especially since it been so long since the last minor update. Else the dream of being a successfull indie developer is going evaporate, with the community.

Quote from Fonnybone :

Threaten to leave all you want, we know you really like LFS deep down

It's not so much people here threatening to leave. Rather the ones that come here and bitch and vent are saddened and frustrated. More often than not, they're champions of the game. The ones who follow the game closely. They run races, leagues, servers, organise teams make mods and attract 1000's more to the game. They fed off the devs engagement and continued release cycles and it maintained interest and a healthy LFS community. That all stopped and the years of work building up localised LFS leagues and events evaporated with lost hope of some update or content release.

Now the devs owe these LFS champions nothing, it was there own initiative. However it was mutually beneficial. The devs sold more licenses and the champions got the communities and competition.



Why bite the hand that feeds you?

We're now at the point where the devs show a lot of contempt for those who question LFS progress. The same ones who are witnessing, once thriving communities built over many years, whither away. And for what?... A few minutes a week, to engage the community, with a few words, screen shot or two, or even a video, to help sell the LFS message.

The fact we've seen very little quantifiable evidence of progress for so long, is truly worrying. Sure the champions will hang around for whatever update materialises, but the damage to reputation and future prospects of LFS, will be a big hurdle to overcome if the old prosperous days are to return.

The statistics of this thread speak for themselves. The devs need to show some initiative and put LFS back on track otherwise they are just wasting their time pursuing a dream that will never meet reality.

What's sadly missed are those type of teaser videos or screenshots, showing progress, new tracks and features, even if they aren't final or still buggy. They only take minutes to make and deliver a big hit of enthusiasm to the community, which at this point is greatly need.

They have done this in the past when a release was getting close, but we've seen nothing like this for a very long time and " working on it" does little to spark any community interest.

At this point in time a lot of the community would be greatful for any meaningful update with a bit of substance.