Semantics. Ignoring customers = lost sales = no revenue. Those that have been around long enough know that customer engagement was regular and key to attracting the masses to the game early on.
No one disagrees with the complex nature of the physics. However there has been NO explanation regarding the explicit point about the lack of track development, let alone before any physics update plans/announcements.
That argument might have held true in the past when regular updates were released, but development has effectively stalled (by Scawen own admission). By definition you can't kill something that is dead. It really pains me to see this argument peddled over and over, when clearly it can't get any worse, given there's no promises, dates or deadlines.
There has been calls for extra man power for years, way before this current crisis. Each time its been strongly rejected, sighting code complexity, lack of documentation and handover time. And to a point that's accepted by the community when it applies to the code base. Yet these arguments are hardly valid where tracks are concerned. 3 or 4 years have past without a single track addition.
Unfortunately it's poor management, planning and foresight, that's allowed the game community to reach a state where it's crying out for content (paid or free) and being ignored.
If you're the glass half full type of guy, maybe? Personally it's a travesty and disservice to a game and community. So much opportunity and potential has been wasted. It's reached a point where ideology, ego and contempt for community and customers is a complete joke.
This is just one of 100's of threads of discontent over the years. The Dev's assurance is surely misplaced if they get any comfort from such threads. They only represent human desire to see what was, has or could have been.
- They should give a shit. Any business that ignores it's customers isn't going to last.
- All the excuses about tyre physics etc, doesn't explain the lack of content updates. We haven't seen a new track in (3+?) years.
- Adding a developer or tyre simulation/physics expert might delay the rumoured release, but the longer term benefits would make it worth while.
A better analogy would be the musicians playing as the ship is sinking.
"Situation normal, don't worry people, everything is alright!"
LFS isn't dead. But the community is. This thread is testament to the communities decline.
Mod developers have gone. Event organisers have lost interest. Most of the great racers have gone. It's all very sad. Those left hope it will rebound, but it's all in the developers hands. They need to spark interest again and build it up again. Key to this is changing the philosophy to Release Early, Release Often. This is how it was in the early days and what was responsible for LFS's rapid rise in popularity.
Mod developers have gone. Event organisers have lost interest. Most of the great racers have gone. It's all very sad. Those left hope it will rebound, but it's all in the developers hands. They need to spark interest again and build it up again. Key to this is changing the philosophy to Release Early, Release Often. This is how it was in the early days and what was responsible for LFS's rapid rise in popularity.
It would nice to see a paid content upgrade (tracks), rather than having to wait 1.5 years for physics updates that aren't dependant on new tracks being released.
Not really sure that interview adds any more detail to what Scawen has said in the past. ie. There's an update coming ... Real Soon Now®
C- Learn about irony. Moaning about moaning!
illepallIt's great to hear from Scawen and get an clear picture of the situation.
Reading between the lines, I get the impression you don't want to release any new intermediate content, for fear of reducing the significance of the next update. That's understandable.
What I don't understand is why this policy continues, with respect to history. Several good (road) tracks (within the existing model) could have emerged in this time. Why not release a paid content update, while dev continues on more diffcult updates.
This would satisfy your financial needs and the communities needs.
3 were from the original, so 3 tracks in 6-7 years. Surely not. It's been obvious for years, the community wanted more content. It's quite disappointing.
Scawen defends the development approach. No Boss, no deadlines, no community engagement, no pressure. It's done when it's done. That's well and good and I commend him and the others on going it alone, outside the normal game development channels. But there's a time fast approaching (probably now) where people are simply going to write LFS off move to bigger and better sims. How is the treasured development model going continue, without revenue, which is highly dependant on community interest.
One things for sure with business, stalled development = no/little sales = no/little income = less development resources = probably less content.
Scawen defends the development approach. No Boss, no deadlines, no community engagement, no pressure. It's done when it's done. That's well and good and I commend him and the others on going it alone, outside the normal game development channels. But there's a time fast approaching (probably now) where people are simply going to write LFS off move to bigger and better sims. How is the treasured development model going continue, without revenue, which is highly dependant on community interest.
One things for sure with business, stalled development = no/little sales = no/little income = less development resources = probably less content.
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Couldn't have said it better. So many teams and comps gone and along with good clean servers with dedicated admins.
Sure the update (if it eventuates) will result in increased numbers, but the good old days of well run leagues, will not return over night. It took years to build up to that level. 1 new car and 1 new track isn't going to be enough the generate interest needed to keep comps afloat.
What perplexes me the most is that in almost 4 years, we haven't seen a single new track. It understandable that it's difficult to add cars if the physics is changing, but AFAIK track development should be relatively independant. I'm yet to see a plausable reason why we haven't seen any. What's the deal? Why not keep the community afloat with a token release of track, rather than let it rott away?
At any rate, if they released track updates, ppl would pay for them, that's for sure.
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It's not my graph. It's from LFS world obviously. By your logic a great portion of the community would be turning over every couple of months.
Quote? Not just for me, but others too. I follow most of Scawen comments, but I don't recall reading something to that fact.
Regardless of the actual cause, a flat graph isn't positive. The community hasn't significantly grown over the last few years.
If I was to take a stab, it probably a lot of loyal dedicated players with a few new ones coming in for a few months, then not returning.
You're interpreting the original quote wrong. It was in the context of the next update. Yes the game has been a success in the past. However the question is, will this next update restore it's glory?
Yes it's an average. So the couple of hours a day where it does peak, gets averaged out. The point of the graph was to show the overall flat trend rather than actual licensed racers, which at anyway you look at it 900 or 400 isn't great.
You'd be right, scawen unsubscribed from the thread. But that doesn't mean he's not reading, I'm pretty sure he read most things.
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For sure that will probably happen at some stage, but more importantly, will it be enough to revive wider "long term" interest in the game.
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From a half glass full PoV... You've taken the best possible stats for a narrow (EU) timezone. The long term (wider) picture isn't as pretty.
Side note: Also if you look deeper, a big percentage are cruise and drift players. There's nothing wrong with that, but LFS is a primarily a racing game, not a drifter or cruise game and any measure or claim should account for this factor.
Licensed racers (600weeks)
If there were significant volumes of licenses being sold, the above graph would look much different. More than likely it's the same crowed playing the game over and over and they aren't generating any revenue for the devs.
They'd need to sell 100's a month to maintain a reasonable income and cover expenses.
It does raise the question of how development can continue, with the revenue stream (appearing to be) drying up. Perhaps the devs have other revenue streams other than LFS. I hope so.
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Sure they could do with a bit more polish, but when they were introduced (6 yrs ago) they were significantly more advanced than most games out then. Now they look a bit stale as the competition has caught up.
I'll be the first to admit, these tyre physics and a tickle of new content are going to have to be exceptional for LFS to keep it's reputation and place on the mantle.
In fact the whole situation is getting to be a bit of a joke really. I think the vast majority of ppl in the community only touch base to see who's going to be right. Is LFS going to revist it's glory or is it going to be the biggest disappointment in sim racing history.
Perhaps LFS is going the way of Commodore, who had a great product and all the opportunity, but failed to progress with the times, only to see it competitors trump them.
Given the progress so far, it's unlikely. Sure dev speed was blistering at the start, but the code base was probably a lot simpler and smaller then. As the games has got more complex, development speed has slowed, almost stalled. Unless there's an increase in developer resources, it's only going to get slower. I really don't think there's any denying that fact.
The other important point is point is Scawen is a perfectionist. He hasn't released any half baked LFS code to date. To Scawen's credit, the development philosophy/regime has surely resulted in the quality we see now. The flip side is that there's now a "massive" anticipation and speculation of the pending release and I'm sure Scawen wants to prove (to the community) that his development regime works and is worth while, even if it means delay after delay.
I guess it's just a question of;
a) Will the coming update generate enough "real" long term interest to kick start the community?
b) How long the community interest will remain in the game without an update? Some will surely argue that time has passed.
Updates certainly = Interest. There's plenty of evidence to show that when an update is released, the number of active players sky-rockets.
With the pending physic update, the grinders, who endlessly pursue improving their time, are sitting "very" patiently to grab that carrot, before they start again.
The situation now is that the dev's certainly aren't going to release something that is half baked. The community wouldn't withstand the disappointment after such a long wait and it would effectively be the death of LFS. But many think an update is on the horizon (the carrot) and will get back into once it's out.
Had engagement with the community not been abandoned and it was know that the next update was 2 years away, the usual competitions/leagues and grinders, would still be battling it out IMO. It's effectively a stalemate.
Added grid reorder, hot lap valid.
Client IP was already in the list.
Client IP was already in the list.
It's great we've finally got a progress report and some promising developments.
I guess now we just have to wait. Hopefully not too long. Another 9 months between announcements might just kill off too many fanboys.
I guess now we just have to wait. Hopefully not too long. Another 9 months between announcements might just kill off too many fanboys.
Added: Ability to send setup from server to player (to help people not familiar with track they got on)
+ Knowledge base
+ Balanced moderating
- Fanboys
- Dev Participation
+ Balanced moderating
- Fanboys
- Dev Participation
LOL! Also includes a bush mechanic in the pits option.
I have to agree. The current state of the website is doing a great disservice to the game and the community.
It sends the wrong message and for new comers it's easy to think, if they can't spare 5 minutes to update the frontage in 8 months, why would the game itself get any more attention. While that not the case, given the updates in the patch thread, new users aren't going trawl forums for such evidence.
Unfortunately this is a decisions the devs have made and it's unlikely to change until people start voting with $$$. It's obvious it's heading in this direction, with the plethora of post like these in recent times.
If it weren't for the timezone difference, it would certainly be the case.
Unfortunately LFS interest is seriously declining in AU. However when we see a release/update, it will bounce back. For how long will depend on the releases new features and content.
Unlike the EU, it's very rare to see a public AU server full that isn't running some event.
Can you expand on this, so other get a better idea of the improvement or issue it's solving?
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