Quote from jtw62074 :

There are quite a lot of papers out there. Dr. Pacejka released a book a couple of years back on some his his models (not just the Magic Model). The only person I talk to specifically about my own model with is Dr. Gregor Veble of Racing Legends though, sorry

Mate, i dont want to steal or borrow piece of your work mate Dont spoil me the pleasure to work the tink myself
I just wanted to know if there were papers about this , so i can have somewhere to start.

Thanks for your answer I going to check what Dr Pacejka released

Maybe first i should read "Motor Vehicle Dynamics" from Giencarlo Genta, from begining to end for once

put engine sound volume to 0... u just need tire squeal to drive ^^

Quote from axus :

(skip..)I know this is rather ambitious for real time processing but you could put this all in a table and attempt to generate equations from there or alternatively make a "canned" engine. (..skip)

Well, i take for example TDU, the collision detection works @ 100hz, and the internal calculation ( engine to contact patch through drivetrain ) is @ 1000hz.
I'm sure on PC i could use 10.000hz without big problem because it is lot of calculation, but it is small and simple calculation, with not much data to read, so, there is very few data/code cache misses, and so, it would be rather fast to calculate
So.. with 10.000hz i think we could have pretty accurate and stable force integration to compute spring/damping with high rates Tire models are sort of complexes spring/damping model

Quote :

On a side note about FF, shouldn't lateral displacement of the centeroid combined with a longitudinal force also generate aligning torque which would go through FF?

I think it is more about lateral force, because lat force is ,i think, applied at center of contact patch, wich is a not centered, also depending of suspension geometry, will also create a force that act against the driver force on the steering wheel. And because lateral force and longitudinal force are combined, it's all connected. Tha's why you feel the steering wheel lighter when the front wheel are slipping.. front wheel slipping = high slip ratio = smaller lateral forces = steering wheel lighter .. without change of the slip angles.

Correct me if i'm wrong

cheers,

Nice ( but deja-vu ) thread, anyway, i dont think LFS use pacejka magic formula

BTW, Todd, is there some paper about real tire physics somewhere, physics formula about contact patch deformation, how to compute real lateral/longitudinal force without magic formula but from real physics.
I guess, it must use very high frequency, but i'd love to do some research about this during my 2 month holliday when TDU will be finished ^^

Hi Niels.

Do you know how hard is the modif for the FrexGP Pedals with your load cell kit ?

Cheers,

Thanks

Cheers,

Quote from Fetzo :

it would be nice to have extra weights implemented. i am sure we ( the community) would balance the cars very quickly.

it has to be a server setting that forces certain weights on the different cartypes.

I agree !!!

Scawen is aware of the balancing problem.
The balancing is a bit ( tiny bit ) better know on TBO, because the GTT is now more closer to FXO.
Balancing the car is not an easy task, and a long task for sure.

Well, if you remember version P/Q WR's, you"d remember that BL1 was the track where the RB4 was the closest to FXO WR's
Now just try on track with loooooooooong straight AS Historic for instance

Maybe you should edit your post, at 1st read, i thought you were saying than red color for tire contact patch was faster than green color ( optimal temp )

I have to read it twice to really understand


About Red color skin .. that's true.. just look Ocrana Skins

cheers,

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Look at BL hotlaps with XF GTI.It looks funny and weird what people do to make fastest lap.

I am for:

- going from pits
- going backwards mean invalid hotlap
- tyre warmup selectable.

TOTALY agreed

Simulator means, best physics, but also realistic behavior of driver on track.
In real life, you'll never see a car start in the middle of the track, or driver allowed to do dangerous think on track , EVEN if the track is closed for him only.
So why should it be authorized in a simulator ?

Quote from Honey :

as someone said, it's still soon to make conclusions: i've managed to be way faster with rb4 on a fe-green server and i easily beated every fxo and gtt, both on qualy and race...still to consider that previously nobody drove rb4, so rb4 experience for setups is still "young"

If you think 15kg ( -8 rb4, +7 fxo )will change "something" in the car balancing well i think you think wrong

In French TBO Season 3, FXO have a passenger has handicap and they are still 1 sec faster Especialy on fast tracks.

Just my 2 cents thought , futur will tell me if i'm wrong or not, i sincerely hope to be wrong.

are u kidding the GTT is faster now, but the RB4 is still way behind

I have put back my FFB force to 50% instead of 100% to get my feeling back now it is just perfect

You should upgrade to Frex GP H-Shifter


Vids : http://www.frex.com/gp/shifter/FrexGPNewHshift04.05.17.wmv

I order the FrexGP H-Shifter, so i dt know yet if i'll be faster.
ATM i use the DFP lever stick on the right of the wheel.

Im' with Matrixi there.

Quote from hind75 :

there is no advantage using manual clutch at this time.

i have to disagree

Quote :

its just anoying and potential mistake.

If you aim for realism, you cant agree with this point. Shifting is an action of driving, like braking and turning wheel, and so it should be simulated correclty.... do you use automatic throtteling?

Quote :

auto clutch and no lift shifting is way faster in accelation.(especially if u using H-shifter)

Very wrong, manual clutch and no lift is way faster.

Quote from Matrixi :

Here, I took a small clip of heel & toeing a few times. I didn't bother compressing it or anything, so it's a bit big (13mb) http://www.nismo.1g.fi/temp/heeltoe.avi

Nice socks

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Do you people have either a fancy set of pedals or extremely weird-shaped feet?

As I said above, I can't see any way to use the heel/toe technique on a standard set of Logitech pedals. If some of you are doing it successfully, please provide photos, diagrams, videos, instructions and whatever else you can produce. Thank you!

I modified my FrexGP from the upper pic to the lower one. I copied a Ferrari pedals design

I'm using all off with FrexGP 3 pedals.
Sadly, even with automatic clutch off, LFS is clutching automaticaly when RPM the engine start stalling, wich is very disturbing to do good clutch start

Also i'm using automatic clutch on GTR's and FO8

Quote from ORION :

nice interview

NICE AVATAR

Quote from Kegetys :

It is licensed under the BSD license, so it is.

Didn't knew.

Quote from Kegetys :

Even ODE? :smash:

bah... playing with words


And, i dt think ODE is free with you use it for non-free products

Quote from jtw62074 :

Hi Sebastien, long time no hear

TDU is near the ending

Quote :

The Novodex engine is very impressive to me in regards to collision detection/response. The constraint system for multiple contacts and joints and so forth is wickedly fast too. I don't get the claims many make about "fake physics" at all though. Seems rather unfounded.

Here's a neat video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3103103511684048644

From the last version i tested, 1 year ago.
The 2 main problems of novodex
1) the API was pretty closed and it was quite difficult to plug special stuff ( for exemple, modifying normal contact and friction contact on the fly )
2) The deep penetrating behavior was less elegant and interesting than Render ware physics for exmple.

In renderware physics, you can put 2 objects at the same place, and they just unpenetraing gently from each other without flying all other the place

In Novodex, ( last year version again ), it was force base and so could be quite violent.

Havok act like Novodex for this case ( penetration ) .. What is great in Havok , is the API, it is just pure marvelous for programmers, you can plug your code whenever you want in the process and modify contacts info/params on the fly

Quote from spankmeyer :

Quote from South Park: "And I base my conclusion on absolutely no evidence at all."

Simply put, we have no idea how totally gargantuan rewrite the LFS source would need to ram something of that magnitude in without either horrible performance or new bugs.

For our racing games i tested :
Havok
Render Ware Physics
Novodex
ODE.

I tested :

High velocity object vs thin objects with 0 bounce param.
Multiple constraint ( contacts, hinge,balls,etc.. ) stability
CPU demanding
Resting state detection and optimisation
Penetration behaving.
Other stuff ( like API interface )

My statment is based on fact and tests I made.

I also made my own dynamics and collisions engine, so from my experience, i'm sure of my statments.

Now.. i'm pretty sure Scawen will not use this kind of stuff.
1) They are pretty expensive
2) Scawen like to do everything himself, and i respect that.

regards,