The second interpretation is the correct one imho.
Edit:
Oops! that reads wrong. I mean "Car 12 illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking" is the correct interpretation.
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : Added rephrase
Stealth edit going on there nikopdr?
We can't change gear if the engine/roadwheel speeds are too different, and the clutch isn't disengaged above a certain threshold. The clutch-button exploit takes advantage of this on the clutch axis, and allows seamless changes where they simply shouldn't be possible. Some simulated gearbox inertia might prevent this, but hey.
Yeah I guess you're right. I kind of inferred from the remark, that starting a hotlap is equivalent to leaving the pits, so exploits like that would be detected. It's a point that needs clearing up all the same.
Mark Hughes writes a nice balanced article of the fate of McLarens strategy this weekend.
BBC F1
I hate to gloat, but that is how I called it before the race. If the safety car hadn't come out when it did, then Jenson was sitting pretty with his strategy, but they are the gambles you take, and it can all go wrong. I still think Alonso was looking ragged before the red flag, and Seb's tyres may or may not have hung on. The reset, took any possibility of testing that theory out though.
BBC F1
I hate to gloat, but that is how I called it before the race. If the safety car hadn't come out when it did, then Jenson was sitting pretty with his strategy, but they are the gambles you take, and it can all go wrong. I still think Alonso was looking ragged before the red flag, and Seb's tyres may or may not have hung on. The reset, took any possibility of testing that theory out though.
I think you've called it, and I would go further to say that it was a good race spoiled by some crazy rulings.
Maldo did his team a disservice, and my respect has fallen for him. Not for the rookie mistake, but his comments afterwards. Massa's antics we've grown to expect, so no great surprise there. Hamilton lost the moral high ground with his post race comments.
edit: Oh, and what the hell was that Daily Mail article about? Comments about traffic problems on Mars could quite easily have been made and it would have been more accurate.
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : Daily Fail
It was mentioned in the INSIM Changes thread
Earlier, there was an accusation that some people were being pro Hamilton. It seems to me the exact opposite is true.
Those images do tell a great deal, and a racing incident looks to be the most likely. Sadly the stewards decision is final, and the result cannot be changed now. Why is there such a heated debate still?
Those images do tell a great deal, and a racing incident looks to be the most likely. Sadly the stewards decision is final, and the result cannot be changed now. Why is there such a heated debate still?
That seems to be the case. If you think about it, worn tyres going quicker are an artefact of the current physics model. In real life, the tyres are at their best when new. Perhaps Scawen has not included amount of wear because he knows the new physics are closer to the truth.
The more I look at that incident the more I think Massa was having a go at Webber and would have hit him regardless. Hamilton lost out by not braking earlier and letting that happen. He would have been able to pick up the place after Massa decided to look at the tunnel wall a bit closer, and if he hadn't would have got a penalty himself - wouldn't he??
I was just experimenting with tyres and did it again. Not quite so well pulled off, and I aborted, but I did get the the replay which clearly shows HVLC was not triggered.
I'm guessing Scawens request was for objects that can be hit without triggering, and probably relates to the recent collision changes. Also it seems to happen at Kyoto, and might require track changes. Please ignore this if this is the case. SPR included for completeness.
Pirelli have asked for the tyre change under red flag to be reviewed.
Full story
I think we are all agreed on that at least.
Full story
I think we are all agreed on that at least.
That makes sense with the absolute temps, and moving them to setups is also a good idea.
Not that my opinion counts due to lack of uploads, but the front rear/individual settings are taking it a bit too far. I thought the whole idea of this was to dispense with the protracted tyre warming period? There is still scope to get the tyres where the driver wants from a global start point after all. It is nice however that you have considered the requirements, and I hope that testing will show that individual tyres will not need setting.
[Edit]
While I admire the patience some people have had with getting their tyres "just right" before setting a lap. It is actually the reason I have never uploaded. I simply don't have the time or patience to go through all of that, so concentrate on simple warming. Scawen's "Warmed up, not worn out" is very much how I approach hotlapping
[/edit]
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : Added stuff about uploads
Its both of the drivers responsibilities. Just because you are in front does not give you a right to claim the corner, leave a gap, and then turn in all innocent as if to say the other driver wasn't there. Late lunges are bad yes I agree, but Lewis did not come from car lengths behind, he was right under Maldonado's wing.
This debate will rage forever it seems.
That clip is tight and doesn't show the run into the corner so well. Ok I concede that Lewis hit Massa fist, but I strongly believe Massa would have hit Webber anyway. His line was quite unorthodox and if he didn't hit Webber would have probably hit the barrier. He did turn in early, and is probably why Lewis feels so aggrieved by the decision. That said, Lewis was on the pavement, so the rule, if any was broken by him.
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : late - early. What was I thinking
The only rules that govern overtaking, are that it is done in a safe manner. It applies to the overtaker as well as the driver being passed.
No, I'm not rooting for Lewis here. I don't really have a favourite driver and enjoy seeing fair racing and decisions. I do however feel that Lewis was treated unfairly, for no other reason than the inconsistencies that the stewards applied. Massa took a strange line into Lowes and hit Webber before Lewis even hit him. If Red Bull wished, they could also complain to the stewards for that move, but that would not make it right, and natural justice came to bear when Massa threw it off the track anyway. Lewis was penalised for hitting Massa while using the curbs and pavement. I believe that was a good decision, and is consistent with Di Resta's penalty for a similar move.
Maldonado didn't deliberately turn in on Hamilton. I believe he just failed to realise he had lost the corner. Inexperience is probably the reason for this, and he should have been given a reprimand - not penalty - Lewis should not have been penalised for that move imo.
The stewards are there to interpret the rules where they apply, and to arbitrate incidents. Overtaking cannot have rules - every corner and situation is different, so rules are just folly. It's up to the drivers to make the decision in the cockpit. As we know, they don't always make the right decision, and sometimes they appear to make a dangerous one.
Lewis on Massa - wrong decision by Lewis and penalty is correct. Massa should have been penalised too but no complaint was made afaik.
Lewis on Maldonado - racing incident. No penalty, but Maldonado should be warned to pay more attention.
No, I'm not rooting for Lewis here. I don't really have a favourite driver and enjoy seeing fair racing and decisions. I do however feel that Lewis was treated unfairly, for no other reason than the inconsistencies that the stewards applied. Massa took a strange line into Lowes and hit Webber before Lewis even hit him. If Red Bull wished, they could also complain to the stewards for that move, but that would not make it right, and natural justice came to bear when Massa threw it off the track anyway. Lewis was penalised for hitting Massa while using the curbs and pavement. I believe that was a good decision, and is consistent with Di Resta's penalty for a similar move.
Maldonado didn't deliberately turn in on Hamilton. I believe he just failed to realise he had lost the corner. Inexperience is probably the reason for this, and he should have been given a reprimand - not penalty - Lewis should not have been penalised for that move imo.
The stewards are there to interpret the rules where they apply, and to arbitrate incidents. Overtaking cannot have rules - every corner and situation is different, so rules are just folly. It's up to the drivers to make the decision in the cockpit. As we know, they don't always make the right decision, and sometimes they appear to make a dangerous one.
Lewis on Massa - wrong decision by Lewis and penalty is correct. Massa should have been penalised too but no complaint was made afaik.
Lewis on Maldonado - racing incident. No penalty, but Maldonado should be warned to pay more attention.
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : speeling
If Maldonado really wanted to defend the corner, he'd have moved to cover the inside line, this naturally makes for a slower exit. Hamilton was all over the back of Maldonado along the straight, and was clearly faster. It was hardly a late lunge. Alonso tried the same move on Vettel before the red flag, but Seb did cover off the apex well in the braking zone. Maldonado took the racing line with a faster car behind/alongside him, and did not pay due respect to having lost the corner.
Did Massa hit Webbers rear before Hamilton gave him a rub? Lewis definitely took to the pavement, and I believe was the reason the stewards found him at fault, but Massa also caused an avoidable accident too, and wasn't penalised - in fairness he was no longer racing so couldn't be any more penalised. For him to then make a complaint is bad sportsmanship, which he seems to suffer from.
Senna took some incredible risks, and somehow he is forgiven for them now. Racing is racing, and ultimately works when drivers can pass and be passed, without punting someone else off. The line between an inspired move and a dangerous one is very fine.
Did Massa hit Webbers rear before Hamilton gave him a rub? Lewis definitely took to the pavement, and I believe was the reason the stewards found him at fault, but Massa also caused an avoidable accident too, and wasn't penalised - in fairness he was no longer racing so couldn't be any more penalised. For him to then make a complaint is bad sportsmanship, which he seems to suffer from.
Senna took some incredible risks, and somehow he is forgiven for them now. Racing is racing, and ultimately works when drivers can pass and be passed, without punting someone else off. The line between an inspired move and a dangerous one is very fine.
QFT
There was so much going on in the race that its easy to lose sight of that very fact.
Has every one forgotten the pass that Barrichello made on Schumacher? I wouldn't have believed a pass could be made there, and I bet Rubens was pretty made up. Brundle even commented that his jaw must be aching with the grin he must have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zfUs4Thmo
All told, Monaco was a classic this season. The only downside was the farcical repairs/tyres for the restart. I'd have much preferred to see tyre warmers only, and parc ferme conditions on the grid. If repairs were needed, then only in the pit. This would bring a natural penalty of having to restart from the pit lane once the field had passed.
Last edited by Squelch, .
Reason : Added video clip of Barrichello vs Schumacher
The pass on Michael worked because Michael had the maturity to realise the corner was lost. Lewis didn't give Michael the opportunity to defend the line, and it was a very good pass. Maldonado didn't even attempt to defend the line and simply moved across.
When it comes to overtaking, there cannot be any hard and fast rules. Instead there are gentlemen agreements and common sense. Maldonado, through inexperience, failed to recognise the corner was lost to a faster car and driver. No he isn't obliged to give it up, but it is common sense to realise when it's lost.
Lewis on Massa is a different story. Even if Lewis had made the pass stick, there was nowhere to go. Webber was right in front of Massa and was probably Massa's main focus at that time and almost ran into the back of him. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that Schumacher took Hamilton in exactly the same place and that did not end in a collision. The difference being is that Lewis realised the corner was lost so stayed wide. Massa should have done the same under any other circumstances, but I'm sure the stewards considered where Hamilton thought he was going to end up anyway, and he used the pavement too.
Squelch analysis*
Schumacher on Hamilton, Lowes hairpin - Good pass.
Hamilton on Schumacher, St Devote - Good pass.
Hamilton on Massa, Lowes - Lewis to blame. Massa warning.
Hamilton on Maldonado, St Devote - Racing incident. Maldonado warning.
*Opinion only and open to debate.
When it comes to overtaking, there cannot be any hard and fast rules. Instead there are gentlemen agreements and common sense. Maldonado, through inexperience, failed to recognise the corner was lost to a faster car and driver. No he isn't obliged to give it up, but it is common sense to realise when it's lost.
Lewis on Massa is a different story. Even if Lewis had made the pass stick, there was nowhere to go. Webber was right in front of Massa and was probably Massa's main focus at that time and almost ran into the back of him. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that Schumacher took Hamilton in exactly the same place and that did not end in a collision. The difference being is that Lewis realised the corner was lost so stayed wide. Massa should have done the same under any other circumstances, but I'm sure the stewards considered where Hamilton thought he was going to end up anyway, and he used the pavement too.
Squelch analysis*
Schumacher on Hamilton, Lowes hairpin - Good pass.
Hamilton on Schumacher, St Devote - Good pass.
Hamilton on Massa, Lowes - Lewis to blame. Massa warning.
Hamilton on Maldonado, St Devote - Racing incident. Maldonado warning.
*Opinion only and open to debate.
You are entitled to your opnion, but should not take it personally if someone disagrees.
Monaco is a true race track and tests the nerve of the drivers, the technology and the team. It could be made safer by installing slots for the cars to follow, but that is just being silly. The track has a very long pedigree and is loved by millions for the spectacle and danger. Spectators and drivers alike.
Hamilton is a fiery and takes risks. Sometimes those risks are ill advised, sometimes they are inspired. whatever he is, he is exciting to watch, and peoples opinions will always be divided. the same could be said for Alonso.
The post race interview by Lewis may come back to bite him. He wore his heart on his sleeve and said some things that may have been in jest, but might not have been received that way. Is it just me, or was his press officer missing? Normally the dark haired lady stands close to him and possibly kicks the back of his leg if he goes too far.
Anyway, the whole weekend was a good spectacle for me, and although we didn't quite get the wheel to wheel finales in qualifying or the end of the race. It had me on the edge of my seat.
Driver of the day for me is Jenson Button. He didn't put a wheel wrong all weekend, and was unlucky to have lost out due to the safety cars and red flag.
Good luck tonight guys and gals. Sadly I wasn't able to do any practise beforehand, and unexpected visitors prevent me from participating.
I hope it all goes well, and look forward to joining you next round perhaps.
I hope it all goes well, and look forward to joining you next round perhaps.
Christian Horner just revealed to Martin Brundle that Seb's primes were put on by mistake. Apparently the radio was for Webber, and it got mixed up. So the winning strategy was a mistake - will his luck never end?
BBC:
Lewis, why do think you're such a steward magnet?
Lewis:
Maybe it's coz I'm black.
:jawdrop:
Lewis, why do think you're such a steward magnet?
Lewis:
Maybe it's coz I'm black.
:jawdrop:
Eddy Jorden.
He just revealed they put sponsorship on the underside of the cars - just in case - Lol
That was a good race. Yes it's a dangerous track, and yes it can be processional at times, but this race had lots of overtakes, and was shaping up for a very interesting finish. The restart and subsequent reset of tyres took away the possibility of Vettel and Alonso pushing their tyres to the absolute limit. Button looked very well placed to capitalise, and was unlucky to be caught pitting just before the first safety car. Vettel's luck is certainly with him, and he just seems to be in the right place at the right time.
He just revealed they put sponsorship on the underside of the cars - just in case - Lol
That was a good race. Yes it's a dangerous track, and yes it can be processional at times, but this race had lots of overtakes, and was shaping up for a very interesting finish. The restart and subsequent reset of tyres took away the possibility of Vettel and Alonso pushing their tyres to the absolute limit. Button looked very well placed to capitalise, and was unlucky to be caught pitting just before the first safety car. Vettel's luck is certainly with him, and he just seems to be in the right place at the right time.
I want Vettel's lottery numbers
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG