so u say that monte carlo is a nice racing track with smooth non-bumpy surface with enough lighting and enough width for overtaking and safe off-track areas and no walls near chicanes and things???? are you kidding or really think it is a proper racing track?? what is wrong with u all?????? it is not a racing track. would fia agree to make a race there if it was not on the calendar...
so u say that monte carlo is a nice racing track with smooth non-bumpy surface with enough lighting and enough width for overtaking and safe off-track areas and no walls near chicanes and things???? are you kidding or really think it is a proper racing track?? what is wrong with u all?????? it is not a racing track. would fia agree to make a race there if it was not on the calendar...
If that's your definition of a "track", and think that all tracks should be like that, then I've got nothing more to say... sorry.
Come on guys, i think most of us on here should understand Hamiltons incidents. The Massa one i'd say was his fault but not the Maldonado one, if you watch it from onbaord with Lewis it looks like a pretty good oppertunity and he was alongside for quite a while for maldonado to see him. I think both cases were one of those moments where the oppertunity looks good when you go for it but when you actually get there not so. He really should have kept quite in the interview, but credit to him for not being his usual thankful self and being open.
19 out of 20 FIA-standardised Tilkedromes with 300 meters wide tarmac runaway areas and official FIA-standardised overtaking slots, not enough for you? You really see the need to make it 20 out of 20?
Seriously though, since when have you started following F1(or motorsports in general)? 2009?
ok i agree lewis is an idiot, monaco is a great racing track, i am a dickhead.
now u can all go and live happy after all...
and next time u will oppose to someone, instead of looking at the flag next to his name, please just once try to understand what he might be trying to say.
now u can all go and live happy after all...
and next time u will oppose to someone, instead of looking at the flag next to his name, please just once try to understand what he might be trying to say.
We can agree or disagree on what he's saying but what YOU are saying is comical! Yes, there are not much places to overtake, but you are practically saying that we should get rid of Monaco, for like another Valencia??
The FIA did place a DRS zone before T1 so no one can complain when a system designed to PROVIDE OVERTAKING is actually used by a driver. Why put it there if you#re not supposed to attempt a move into T1?
Because overtaking is "stupid" and "dangerous".
You are entitled to your opnion, but should not take it personally if someone disagrees.
Monaco is a true race track and tests the nerve of the drivers, the technology and the team. It could be made safer by installing slots for the cars to follow, but that is just being silly. The track has a very long pedigree and is loved by millions for the spectacle and danger. Spectators and drivers alike.
Hamilton is a fiery and takes risks. Sometimes those risks are ill advised, sometimes they are inspired. whatever he is, he is exciting to watch, and peoples opinions will always be divided. the same could be said for Alonso.
The post race interview by Lewis may come back to bite him. He wore his heart on his sleeve and said some things that may have been in jest, but might not have been received that way. Is it just me, or was his press officer missing? Normally the dark haired lady stands close to him and possibly kicks the back of his leg if he goes too far.
Anyway, the whole weekend was a good spectacle for me, and although we didn't quite get the wheel to wheel finales in qualifying or the end of the race. It had me on the edge of my seat.
Driver of the day for me is Jenson Button. He didn't put a wheel wrong all weekend, and was unlucky to have lost out due to the safety cars and red flag.
Come on. That's even worse than what Lewis is saying. Whatever you will say, the normal overtaking rules still apply either in a post DRS zone or not.
"Oh I had my DRS on that means I have the right to get my nose in there and the other idiots should never shut the door cause they know about DRS." Non-sense.
So can anyone explain this?
So true...
I found myself thinking that watching a Senna tribute...they were all praising the wreckless and borderline stupid moves he could have done.
I'm too young...was it like that when he was alive ? Surely now that's he dead no one likes to be the one that says some of his moves were not so brilliant.
It's great that Lewis was honest during his interview. He felt the need to tell everyone what he truly thinks of the stewards' descions.
Moreover, one of the well known quotes by Ayrton Senna was "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." Sure, some attempts by Lewis to pass drivers didn't go so well, but that is all part of racing. You take every oppourtunity to overtake you get, whether it goes well or not.
Moreover, one of the well known quotes by Ayrton Senna was "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." Sure, some attempts by Lewis to pass drivers didn't go so well, but that is all part of racing. You take every oppourtunity to overtake you get, whether it goes well or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0R4XqZEUrQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQiCe5qhpGE
From Hamilton's point of view this is a VERY similar pass vs the one on Maldonado. Maybe only a little more overlap but that's it. The difference between the two for him is only the reaction from the other.
In one case it's "brilliant" and then you get a penalty for the other one. That's mostly what he is pissed off about and he is right.
EDIT : meh. beaten by JPeace :P
He just needs to wake up and accept that it is how it works. The guy in front isn't OBLIGATED to move over. If he does, good for you, if he doesn't you're to blame. The "he turned in on me" routine doesn't cut it. Grow up and realize that the other dude has the right to turn in on you whenever he wants. Some will, some won't. Deal with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQiCe5qhpGE
From Hamilton's point of view this is a VERY similar pass vs the one on Maldonado. Maybe only a little more overlap but that's it. The difference between the two for him is only the reaction from the other.
In one case it's "brilliant" and then you get a penalty for the other one. That's mostly what he is pissed off about and he is right.
EDIT : meh. beaten by JPeace :P
He just needs to wake up and accept that it is how it works. The guy in front isn't OBLIGATED to move over. If he does, good for you, if he doesn't you're to blame. The "he turned in on me" routine doesn't cut it. Grow up and realize that the other dude has the right to turn in on you whenever he wants. Some will, some won't. Deal with it.
This the great problem with modern day racing. The outside driver never ever takes the blame. It's very hard to legislate against because in essence the outside driver is on the normal 'racing line'. It's something that infuriates drivers because someone on the outside has a free pass to take someone out.
It was James Hunt who pointed out during commentating on the Suzuka race where Prost turned in on Senna.
I've learned my lesson - don't race with people who don't have a similar concept of racing as you do. I wouldn't be surprised to see hammy do a Kimi and just leave F1 because really, it isn't all that
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you supposed to defend your position? JPeace states that just because Hamilton was faster Maldonado should've let him go past. I don't get it. Hamilton was not in front. Maldonado drove the normal racing line and Hamilton instead of braking earlier or lifting up the throttle just kept going into a situation where it was certain they would hit. Hamilton was BEHIND Maldonado and did a foolish and ridiculous overtake attempt.
The driver in front is allowed to maintain normal racing line and doesn't have to pull side just because the racer behind wants him to do so. Hamilton has pushed other racers into grass many times by using this rule. Why shouldn't other drivers have the same rules as Hamilton? Hamilton drove recklessly today and deserved his penalties. It's no surprise he's been sent to the stewards so many times. He feels that everyone else should watch out for him and just give way. And apparently so do his fans too. In accident with Massa Hamilton was behind and pushed himself into a position where he had no other option than to hit Massa. His mistake and clearly his alone.
Hamilton is fast driver, probably the fastest one with Vettel right now, but he lacks intelligence and humility. If you read and watch what he says to the media you can see he's just an arrogant whining little prick. Always accusing other racers or his team. He never takes responsibility and thus never learns from his mistakes. He needs to learn humility and to control his temper in races. If he manages to do that only sky's the limit to what he might achieve.
The driver in front is allowed to maintain normal racing line and doesn't have to pull side just because the racer behind wants him to do so. Hamilton has pushed other racers into grass many times by using this rule. Why shouldn't other drivers have the same rules as Hamilton? Hamilton drove recklessly today and deserved his penalties. It's no surprise he's been sent to the stewards so many times. He feels that everyone else should watch out for him and just give way. And apparently so do his fans too. In accident with Massa Hamilton was behind and pushed himself into a position where he had no other option than to hit Massa. His mistake and clearly his alone.
Hamilton is fast driver, probably the fastest one with Vettel right now, but he lacks intelligence and humility. If you read and watch what he says to the media you can see he's just an arrogant whining little prick. Always accusing other racers or his team. He never takes responsibility and thus never learns from his mistakes. He needs to learn humility and to control his temper in races. If he manages to do that only sky's the limit to what he might achieve.
If he wanted to defend his position he should have moved right earlier, you can't stay on the normal line then when someone makes an attempt to pass just turn in like they're not there.
How do you define a pass attempt? Do you mean that if I just show up in your mirrors and come late and fast enough you have to give me room? Hamilton was behind and didn't have any hope overtaking Maldonado or Massa unless they gave him room and just pulled over.
I did a brief experiment on LFS a year or two ago. I basically decided every time someone tried to overtake me into a corner I would turn in and cut them up. I received a tremendous amount of apologies from drivers who I had deliberately turned in on... the mind boggles.
hi guys,
agreed that this all stems from poor stewarding, all the incidents in the race were just racing incidents, no idea why the stewards are getting involved so much. There is no consistency which is why they should just concentrate on blatent stuff.
agreed that this all stems from poor stewarding, all the incidents in the race were just racing incidents, no idea why the stewards are getting involved so much. There is no consistency which is why they should just concentrate on blatent stuff.
The pass on Michael worked because Michael had the maturity to realise the corner was lost. Lewis didn't give Michael the opportunity to defend the line, and it was a very good pass. Maldonado didn't even attempt to defend the line and simply moved across.
When it comes to overtaking, there cannot be any hard and fast rules. Instead there are gentlemen agreements and common sense. Maldonado, through inexperience, failed to recognise the corner was lost to a faster car and driver. No he isn't obliged to give it up, but it is common sense to realise when it's lost.
Lewis on Massa is a different story. Even if Lewis had made the pass stick, there was nowhere to go. Webber was right in front of Massa and was probably Massa's main focus at that time and almost ran into the back of him. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that Schumacher took Hamilton in exactly the same place and that did not end in a collision. The difference being is that Lewis realised the corner was lost so stayed wide. Massa should have done the same under any other circumstances, but I'm sure the stewards considered where Hamilton thought he was going to end up anyway, and he used the pavement too.
Squelch analysis*
Schumacher on Hamilton, Lowes hairpin - Good pass.
Hamilton on Schumacher, St Devote - Good pass.
Hamilton on Massa, Lowes - Lewis to blame. Massa warning.
Hamilton on Maldonado, St Devote - Racing incident. Maldonado warning.
*Opinion only and open to debate.
When it comes to overtaking, there cannot be any hard and fast rules. Instead there are gentlemen agreements and common sense. Maldonado, through inexperience, failed to recognise the corner was lost to a faster car and driver. No he isn't obliged to give it up, but it is common sense to realise when it's lost.
Lewis on Massa is a different story. Even if Lewis had made the pass stick, there was nowhere to go. Webber was right in front of Massa and was probably Massa's main focus at that time and almost ran into the back of him. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that Schumacher took Hamilton in exactly the same place and that did not end in a collision. The difference being is that Lewis realised the corner was lost so stayed wide. Massa should have done the same under any other circumstances, but I'm sure the stewards considered where Hamilton thought he was going to end up anyway, and he used the pavement too.
Squelch analysis*
Schumacher on Hamilton, Lowes hairpin - Good pass.
Hamilton on Schumacher, St Devote - Good pass.
Hamilton on Massa, Lowes - Lewis to blame. Massa warning.
Hamilton on Maldonado, St Devote - Racing incident. Maldonado warning.
*Opinion only and open to debate.
hamilton on massa - massa tried to block too late no penalty
Hamilton on mald - racing incident no penalty
Hamilton on mald - racing incident no penalty
I don't think Lewis did anything wrong today, both times the lead car turned in much earlier than they normally would, and far too late to defend the position. Maldonado you can put down to inexperience, but Massa has no excuse and his comments after the race lead me to believe it was a deliberate move and part of a strategy to rattle Hamilton. Just watch the replay of the hairpin pass, Massa jumps into the way when he sees the move coming, not out of it.
Personally I think Hamiltons only problem is overestimating the ability of the driver in front, he assumes they will all see the move and have the common sense to give up the corner as they should. What he should have realised is that Massa gets driving tips from his engineer, and needs the "idiot board" to tell him to brake during tyre changes, he is not an intelligent person, especially not on track.
Incase you're wondering I've lost all respect for Massa, I don't like drivers who can't race properly coming out and saying other people should get penalties "so they will learn".
Personally I think Hamiltons only problem is overestimating the ability of the driver in front, he assumes they will all see the move and have the common sense to give up the corner as they should. What he should have realised is that Massa gets driving tips from his engineer, and needs the "idiot board" to tell him to brake during tyre changes, he is not an intelligent person, especially not on track.
Incase you're wondering I've lost all respect for Massa, I don't like drivers who can't race properly coming out and saying other people should get penalties "so they will learn".
Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco 2011
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