The Clean Racers Club and its servers are an excellent place to meet up with good clean racers. At this time you don't even have to be a CRC member to make use of the servers but they are well administrated, not overly loaded down with rules (just use your common-sense and you'll be fine), and there's lots of different leagues and events to participate in if you do wish to become a member.

I get bored or frustrated sometimes too, but I don't take it out on people who want to race. That's when I go to the carpark and bash people. That's pretty much the function of the carpark imho, a repository for tool-ish behaviour

Quote from Goop :

I'm sure you would have noticed this when you handed your moolah over to the developers:

Quote from www.liveforspeed.net in the license agreement :

1.5Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.

i.e. if you're being a jerkoff, we reserve the right to revoke your license. We all agreed to that when we signed up.

I'm with Goop, I'd like to see clause 1.5 enforced in some way (although tbh I don't know if it is or not right now, for all I know hundreds of people have had to hand in their badge). A master ban server would be a good idea. If people get punked and can't even get a racelist for a few hours or days, maybe it would force them to re-evaluate their behaviour and its effects on other people. Some kind of disincentive would be welcomed I think. Maybe (again with the maybe) Scavier could delegate the management of any such master ban list to some trusted LFS community members (not me, I'd just black-ball anyone who was faster than me, which is most people, and it would be bye-bye LFS community ).

Quote from Goop :

I'm sure you would have noticed this when you handed your moolah over to the developers:

Quote from Goop :

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.liveforspeed.net in the license agreement
1.5Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.


i.e. if you're being a jerkoff, we reserve the right to revoke your license. We all agreed to that when we signed up.

I did notice that when I signed up, and now it's really just a matter of admin's putting the request's for suspension through.

Or even still, why not have a forum thread or category for Abuse were persistent abusers are nominated, i'm sure this V-Bulletin has a vote thread. Get 10 vote's and get a suspension for a certain period of time. Get over 50 votes and maybe a more severe suspension.

I think the majority of proper racers and admin's would agree to this...

Fordman,

There are some real idiots, and as people say, there are just some EXTREME noobs out there right now, too. It was the same when S2 came out. Eventually they'll either get bored, or get better, one hopes.

Sometimes it's really hard to tell. Someone buys the game, for whatever reason, with no knowledge of real world driving, and is thrilled by the (occasional) chance to pass somebody - hence heading into a hairpin at 30 mph too fast, with no thought of exiting the turn, just passing a car.

In the real world, no such person would ever get near a racing car.
It would be good if LFS could implement some kind of 'career mode' approach to who gets to race what, where, etc.

I don't have the full details in mind, but like in the old single player mode..
once you have your liscense, you can only go online in certain servers running a certain car, or range of cars. You have to finish 10 races, or finish so many in a certain range of positions, before the next 'group' of cars are made available.

You could still run all the cars you wanted in single player mode, but you have to progress, while on-line, through stages.

I can hear the possible complaints, difficult to implement, not fair, etc...but the bottom line is LFS isn't meant to be an 'arcade' type of game.


As far as servers - LFS is so much fun since the patch, that I'm actually driving nearly every car, something I'd never done before, and getting decent in some that I never thought I'd drive. If I were to join a server with experienced people, in a car I'm new to, I'd still probably get into trouble...so I just try to get better and have fun right now on an empty track.

You can always start your own game - even if you can only support 5 or 7 players..you have admin rights, and once the server is full of people you are comfortable with, you can ask everyone to move to an empty server that supports more people - as more people join, you have your base of 7 serious players who will back you up on kicking or banning the real idiots, or at least mutually not tolerate their behavior.

Just some random thoughts.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I don't think doing it quite so publicly is a good idea. It'd be better to quietly give people a slap on the wrist - a day ban would probably be good, increasing in future if they re-offend - and see if that helps them decide to behave better when online.

yeah I see what you mean....

i kinda had a ye olde vision in my head as i was typing that post....of race drivers put in stocks and village people throwing rocks at them...

but yes.. a ban for a day would be good, but it has to be implemented still... somehow...

I've experienced the "Idiots attack" recently as well. And I don't think it's a n00b thing. n00bs don't drive well, but most of them listen when you explain them the meaning of blue flags, etc. Sometimes these idiots come few members of a team. Not deliberatly wrecking per-se, but do enough silly things to ruin a good race or many (as others noted, pitting out with zero respect for other drivers, getting in between the leaders with poor driving and unexpected behaviour, laughing after an accident, etc).

Maybe a Licencing system is required. Here's my suggestion:

1. Let LFS have a built in licencing system. This system can be a combination of offline hotlap times and tutorial (the LFS tutorial) times. Winning online races could add credit for these licenses. Maybe even different licenses per car. i.e. slow hotlap = novice licence, superfast = alien licence etc. Maybe even something along the lines of novice licence for at least one car on a category (SS, GTR, FWD, etc) grants you a novice licence for all the category (same goes for "better" licenses).

Now, the licenses don't do anything by themselves, HOWEVER, server admins can decide what kind of licenses they allow on their servers. So complete n00bs servers would not have any license limitation, normal friendly server will require novice license, and servers with superfast drivers will require alien license.

I know a licensing system has been suggested before, but as others said, it's getting kida annoying lately... It's sometimes really hard to find servers without idiots on track.

I leaved? where ? ^^

Seriously, i never leaved, i took a little break because of work, nothing related to wreckers, now i came back for French Turbo league and OLFSL. And i'm still playing on public servers, but i always put the car filter on. I think it is a good wrecker filters, because wreckers usualy go to server with all cars allowed

cheers,

Well, my views

1) I think ANYONE found to be deliberatly "wreaking" on an S2 server should have their license revoked, PERIOD.
We all have racing incidents and accidents but any form of deliberate wreaking should be dealt with as severely as possible, a replay should be sent to the devs or a trusted review panel and if it is deemed to be deliberate then it should be cured there and then.
2) In all my years of racing LFS I have only ever encountered deliberate wreaking on, at the most, 2 occasions.

Dan,

I've spent some time on international S2 servers recently and the situation is getting out of control indeed. The SA community is growing nicely now so I usually have a better time racing with the quick people on our own local passworded server. If there's no-one on and its at a time when I can use international (during office hours, I just lag out - terrible SA internet) then I will go on an international server. And what a mess it has become.

I think that the way most of these idiots are able to wreck and not get banned is by leaving a server as they are about to get voted to be banned. This is an issue for LFS. Ban votes cannot be cancelled until the vote times out - this will go a long long way to solving the problem. This way wreckers would get a certain ban immediately when they wreck a single person's race and it will be back to fearing ban votes as it should be.

You say... well what about the demo. Implement a free license for the demo, this way you can ban username rather than IP and wreckers can go and register again on the LFS site (which takes time and annoys them making it boring for them to wreck - not that I understand how they enjoy wrecking in the first place anyway) in order to join that server. This has been suggested many a time.

Please. Do something. +1 for Fordie.

Quote from Fordman :

Now, I usually don't shout out loud, slander or even curse ( in public anyway ) about the state of the LFS servers, but something has now goto give. Its getting ridiculous now. 5 different servers tonight, just generally looking around for some fun ( what LFS used to be like ) and well I found out of 5 server, 4 had wreakers on them, and all are S2 licensed?

Come on people, we need to do something here, its killing the essence of what LFS is about. Admit it, LFS is not a kids toy. Its a proper ( as close can be ) simulated environment and I now feel that the Devs have to actually issue personal warnings to these people. Its all there, in the virtual contract you sign when you buy your license.

Sometimes all people want, including myself, is to join a server, and have a laugh ( racing ) Yes everybody makes mistakes, I am not knocking that, I was there once, and still am in some cars, but come on, mistakes are mistakes. Driving the wrong way and taking you out on purpose is not a simple mistake.

Now I must add that this has never happened on a DSRC server, a T7R Server, a Clownpaint Server, or a Ocrana server to name a few, but these don't always have people in them, and sometimes its nice just to pop on and have an actual race.

I don;t want this ( we have been here for years server ) i actually like taking time out to help people, but when people deliberatly go out of there way to spoil ones night, then thats wrong.

I know you will all say, well join another server, get a PW'd server, but sometimes, after a long hard day at the office, its nice to just pop on, find a server that has some people in and have some fun ( always have done in the past )

OK I know also you will say, well LFS is more popular now this will happen, but where does it end. IMHO its killing the actual essence of what LFS is about, and now's the time for the devs to get involved. Its there business at the end of the day to have some control?

It doesnt have to be made public, as I don't agree with this, but if "hard proven evidence is shown to the devs only" then some action needs to be taken.

Lets try and nip this in the bud, before all the "LFS fanboys" sorry wrong word but, dissapear. We have seen alot leave ( Lefty, MagicFR, JeeP ) to name a couple. I mean there was a time when you saw everybody online, you was almost guarenteed a great race, no matter what day you joined, or time.

Please Please, I am begging now ( and thats never happened ) lets do something.

Thanks and Regards

Fordie.

PS - If you want hard evidence, I have it hear in picture format, and Video format, and also Replay format. Its aweful to watch but happens so often and to many a people.

Hi Fordie,
I TOTALLLY AGREE.

I am in LFS also since 2002 and have been having great races but the overall online racing quality is coming really down.

I was used to have a top qualoty racing with like you,Vykos,Macest and many other "legend" drivers.I learned a lot racing with top guys.

Many drivers nowdays dont have a respect to each other.The only things they want to do is just win for any purpose no matter if they crash you or wreck you.They dont care you passing them correctly on they inner side before corner so in racing etticet they should let you pass.

There are licenced S2 drivers who wreck.Its shame the LFS online picture has changed a lot and its not good promotion for LFS itself.

I really dont like going to some mid full servers and have to go thru 3 of them and being pissed how nobody care about driving but only about winning.I really liked to going online every night(The CRC idea is really stiull great to me as I enjoyed the best races on CRC servers) but this has changed very much.

To the end I am really confused from how the things has developed and I greatly hope that LFS DEV team can make some serious action to this problems.

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments and support on this issue.

@Somebody ( cannot be bothered to look back, sorry ) You say they will get bored, but this is clearly not the case, why are they still here? Why because nothing is being done at the higher level, simple as that.

@MagicFR - Sorry m8, its just I remember when you, Mac, Devil007, Vyk, Raikz ( thats a name from the past ) Sin's, Lefty, I could go on for ever with names, but as I said, I remember when you was all online. The races we used to have was closer and more fun ( and the physics was worse ) so go figure

CRC did work, and maybe still can work, but only if ALL the teams pull together on this and people actually use this. When CRC'2 was setup, we had the site, we had people sign up, but hardly anybody used the server's

As somebody posted above, its there, in clear black and white that bad behaviour will not be tolerated when purchasing your S2 license.

Thanks Devil007. I know we have been here a long time. Maybe its time for people like us to book into the Old Racers Home where we can sit and reminise about past races, moan about the food and goto bed at 4:30pm

...Cedje Dervo, Meszes, etc

+1 for the devs to give their opinions/ideas on this

I know this is fairly obvious but I don't think it has been mentioned...
What happened to the 'WRONG WAY - KICK' server option? That would at least prevent alot of instances of wrecking. Maybe I just haven't experienced it lately as I am usually an admin on the servers I race on.

While my experiences of wreckers aren't really that bad and I can't say I have seen them much on S2, but I am not going to disagree with Fordy. Even if it wasn't on a large scale, I still believe there should be some sort of system in place specifically to prevent blatant wreckers.

It is just like being a kid....If you break or spoil someones toys, you get punished. So go sit in the corner! What if bans/kicks came with a 'sinbin' feature? e.g. Your S2 license is revoked for like 30mins as a 'chillout' punishment period. I know this would be open to abuse by spam banner/kickers but at least if done properly the culprits would actually suffer some consequences for their actions. At the moment, nobody gets punished for being a wrecker, other than being punted from one server to another.

It is all a very muddled colour of grey unfotunately, and I can't see it being easy to implement a system that cannot be abused

I dont like automatic punishments at all, that wont work and people will only abuse it. Only useful thing would be disallowing disconnect if there is a vote going on, which is related to yourself. So you cant disconnect right before you get banned.

Haven't read all those posts, but CrazyIce had an idea in the german forums to solve the problem.

I'm not sure, whether I'm repeating it correctly, but I think it was about an general ban-file, which would be updatet from someone regularly (replays with wreckers) and which server-admins can download.
It would contain all known wreckers and if most admins use it, the wreckers would be banned on most of the servers.

Quote from axus :

I think that the way most of these idiots are able to wreck and not get banned is by leaving a server as they are about to get voted to be banned. This is an issue for LFS. Ban votes cannot be cancelled until the vote times out - this will go a long long way to solving the problem. This way wreckers would get a certain ban immediately when they wreck a single person's race and it will be back to fearing ban votes as it should be.

That's one problem right there! It's too easy to do a quick disconnect-rejoin when you see banvotes stacking up.

But fear not (rhymes with Biernot) fellow racers! Despite this thread growing to 3rd page, you must see that deliberate wrecking is not anywhere near a major problem in LFS... except for demo servers but they have an easy solution to that.

Yes I've seen and been on the receiving end of wreckers in s2.... not bad drivers.... or inexperienced drivers, but wreckers, worst of all many of them were part time wreckers, who could and do drive ok at other times
then due to boredom , lack of sense ,, whatever take pleasure in wrecking other's races.

I could name at least 20 Licenced wreckers (backed up with replay evidence) but whats the point, what I should have done was send the replays to the relevant server admin's at the time, but through lazyness or sheer apathy I didn't.

But even though the number of wreckers are very small in comparison to all the other good ,clean drivers out there ,it only takes a few to have an impact of LFS

So in future I will save ALL wrecking behaviour and send it to the relevant admin, or even better some central database where server owners can check and decide if they want these "racers" on there server's.

Can't remember this problem n S1.. excluding demo servers.

John

This has alwaysbeen in the demo servers, but now that they are buying it it's coming here(to S2). But y doesn't a wrecker go to a different server if they're bored or want to crash ppl?

Quote :

The Village People? You have strange visions in your head!

hahaha!!!!! the village ppl!!!

Quote :

This is why I thought CrazyICE's suggestion of a master ban list was a good idea, resulting from admins reviewing submitted replays and then being distributed to all participating hosts. It could even have a variety of infractions that result in different penalties; Deliberate wrecking - week ban, Inconsiderate driving - day ban, with repeat offenders receiving longer punishments.

It could also generate pages where the banned person can find information about why they were banned and how long the ban is for, and see the replay themselves so they know what sort of behaviour isn't acceptable.

Agreed.
This idea is really good. Master ban list could fix most of our problems.

maybe it has something to do with the bigger servers. but there is a much higher tollerance for wrecking / ruthless driving on the servers today.

no one seems to care if some idiot hates you that much, that he ruins your race EVERY time. because he is only ruining the race of you and some others, the other 15 racers just don't care.

and even if he produces repeatedly a pileup in t1, all drivers are eager to press shift+r, but no one ever thinks about kicking the one who constantly ruins other races, because most of the time he didn't manage to wreck the whole drivers field.

most of the time these drivers do not respond at all. i can tell them what they are doing wrong a thousand times, how can i know he even gets the message?

hiding on "pseudo teamservers" is a valid option for drivers who race every day and have the right connections to get all passwords, but i am often just frustrated because the closed servers DO have the best combos + drivers. most of the time i don't know the passwords and i don't know how to get them.

imho, if there is an admin on a server, the server should be open for all AND the admin should be triggerhappy with his kickbutton. one warning, kick, warning, ban.

i am with fordman, something has to be done.

even a blacklist would be ok for me.

Morning chaps (late night, late start!)

If you nip over to www.teamccuk.com/wreck you'll see our own wrecker report form. This is working very effectively, at least for our servers. You can call an admin to the server or you can notify a persistent wrecker if you provide an MPR with your report.

Importantly, the reports filed here also go to a few other admins of other teams. They then have access to the MPRs filed on our server and they instantiate their own ban on their own servers, if they feel it's appropriate. They may decide that a ban is not appropriate, and take no action. The important thing is that they're aware of the problems players have had on our server, and can witness the replay themselves. It's a big "up" in awareness. Any server admin can PM me any time, to be included in the report "round robin". I just need an email address.

Since patch T, banning people has been made much easier, with the help of Scawen who did a brilliant job of ironing out the server ban list niggles. Now if we ban on one of our team servers, the ban is instantly effective on all of our other servers. Wicked!

I'm working on a new version of this form (time being of the essence), which isn't specific to our servers. The new version will allow teams to log in, collect new MPRs, review the database of wreckers/MPRs and keep on top generally, of the current collection of known deliberate and determined problem causers.

Any S2 licencee will be able to lodge a complaint/report against a wrecker using the report form, though if the event has passed and the suspect can't be caught on a server at the time of the report, an MPR with evidence will be needed. I've dubbed it the "Clean Servers Club".

The more server operators/admins that join in, the more effective this will be. I don't think making the list of wreckers/MPRs available to non-serveradmins is likely to be a good idea, incidentally. One recent wrecker claimed he wanted to be famous, and wrecking was his chosen path to stardom.

Anyway, wanted to let you know that plans are afoot. It's community driven and community managed, rather than burdening the Devs. With the right level of server participation, though, it could be just as effective.

Quote from Fetzo :

maybe it has something to do with the bigger servers. but there is a much higher tollerance for wrecking / ruthless driving on the servers today.

no one seems to care if some idiot hates you that much, that he ruins your race EVERY time. because he is only ruining the race of you and some others the other 15 racers just don't care.

and even if he produces repeatedly a pileup in t1, all drivers are eager to press shift+r, but no one ever things about kicking the one who constantly ruins other races, because most of the time he didn't manage to wreck the whole drivers field.


i am with fordman, something has to be done.

even a blacklist would be ok for me.

Yeh,that what pissed me off most.I get wrecked by someone several times and the others dont care.It happed to me several times like in 3 races in row and I was really on the way to destroy my keyboard.I work hardly a lot of time during day and I just want to have a few minutes/hours of some nice racing.sometimes hardly possible.
When we were smaller comunity this wasnt a problem even we were driving on demos servers(in 0.1 or 0.2demo) because we had respect to each other.Something which really dissapeard .

I think the central blacklist is really nice idea,maybe the devs can come with something better but definately their action is needed here.

maybe this might help:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8111

I think the problem is LFS used to be so good, as the awkward physics meant only the good, dedicated racers persisted with the game and raced. Now LFS is much more accessable and appealing, people are coming from all over. What are other race sims like online? No better I'd imagine.