Ugh.

Firstly the death tolls of 56 were probably the instant death (i.e died in Explosion or something) and is probably accurate, where as the rest of the deaths were due to RADIATION POISONING/EXPOSURE.

Can you say that Chernobyl was a contributing factor towards their death? Yes, perhaps. Can you say it killed them for sure? NO. I very much doubt even 985,000 people were affected by that incident so the 4,000 figure seems much more REASONABLE. Perhaps up in the 10's of thousands, I'd even (and I'd never thought I'd say this) agree with Greenpeaces' estimate of around 200,000. But one million? Piss off.

All of these sites which you've linked to are written by or associated with people like yourselves - people who question everything and believe the opposite of what everyone is telling you. You are the reason panic spreads like wildfire and you (when I say you I refer to yourself and others like you) are the reason why governments don't tell us of immediate, impending disasters (this is not one by the way) such as nuclear bombs on home soil, because instead of being "Oh, okay cool...*goes back to reading a newspaper* you jump on to the bandwagon and spread your twisted point of view. This is more than questioning reason, it's being alternative to the point of spreading mass panic, ala 2012 OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE.

Radiation IS NOT GOING TO MAGICALLY KILL YOU. There is radiation in everything we eat, every minute we live we're absorbing radiation. (see this chart - I am not saying that is completely accurate however it's probably close enough.)

Cancer can be caused by exposure to high levels of radiation (such as Chernobyl) however you are more likely to get cancer based upon your genetics (if your parents have/had cancer then you're much more likely to get it) than you are from radiation poisoning.

Talking of Chernobyl, I do want to visit one day because I find the whole thing interesting.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Ugh.

Firstly the death tolls of 56 were probably the instant death (i.e died in Explosion or something) and is probably accurate, where as the rest of the deaths were due to RADIATION POISONING/EXPOSURE.

Nobody will be dead due to radiation exposure, not yet anyway. Exposure to radiation, even highly extreme, won't kill you instantly, it just renders your immune system disabled and the severity of how weakened it is depends on length and intensity of exposure, basically radiation exposure just opens the door for virus/cancer etc because white blood cells and immune system can't function 100% and can't attack the bad elements coming into the body.

But it seems we automatically agree with each other, it's a shame that people constantly think they keep having to look outside the box/differently to find the right answer, well they either want the right answer, or they don't wanna be too mainstream lol, kinda like those people who only listen to musicians that nobody has ever heard of because anyone with more than 60fans is too mainstream for them!

And I too would like to visit Chernobyl.

But people did die from radiation exposure, I remember reading this:

http://listverse.com/2010/03/2 ... es-of-death-by-radiation/

In extreme level of radiation you don't die from secondary effects, but your body cell dies from the inside, your internal organs fail, you breed from every single opening of your body and you can did within days.

If that isn't direct cause of death I don't know what it is.

Quote from JJ72 :

But people did die from radiation exposure, I remember reading this:

http://listverse.com/2010/03/2 ... es-of-death-by-radiation/

In extreme level of radiation you don't die from secondary effects, but your body cell dies from the inside, your internal organs fail, you breed from every single opening of your body and you can did within days.

If that isn't direct cause of death I don't know what it is.

In most cases this such severe ammount of radiation exposure is due to a nearby explosion. You aren't dead due to exposure, as S14 said, you're dead due to a bada-boomboom look at Vietnam I'm sure after a napalm drop, you'd have your internal organs fail and you'd start bleeding from every pore of your body too.

Old age, is another one JJ, do you die of Old age? Or do you die of teh cold/influenza/cancer you had when you just so happened to be old and died from it?

Quote from BlueFlame :

In most cases this severe ammount of radiation exposure is due to a nearby explosion. You aren't dead due to exposure, as S14 said, you're dead due to a bada-boomboom. Old age, is another one JJ, do you die of Old age? Or do you die of teh cold/influenza/cancer you had when you just so happened to be old and died from it?

Did you clicked on that link? most of them are not by explosion, most don't even had any sort ofexplosion.

Read it.

People does die from old age, My grandfather died of natural causes, he was healthy but just one day he gone to sleep and never wake up, it's not some illness or whatever, when you die of age your body just turns off.

Don't tell me to prove it to you otherwise.

I hope this won't drag on into another long debate when the fact is every so apparent.

Exposure to intense radiation doses destroys body cells at a modular level, it is not magic.

They don't perform an autopsy on an 80 year old man to figure out what he died from, that's why it just gets put down to old age.

Radiation kills plenty of people without any sort of explosion, at Chernobyl there were plenty of nearly immediate deaths simply because of the levels of radiation.

Quote from JJ72 :

Did you clicked on that link? most of them are not by explosion, most don't even had any sort ofexplosion.

Read it.

People does die from old age, My grandfather died of natural causes, he was healthy but just one day he gone to sleep and never wake up, it's not some illness or whatever, when you die of age your body just turns off.

Don't tell me to prove it to you otherwise.

I hope this won't drag on into another long debate when the fact is every so apparent.

Exposure to intense radiation doses destroys body cells at a modular level, it is not magic.

No, I didn't have time to read that link.

I don't believe people die from 'old age' because if that was the case everyone would die at a set age, say 100 for instance (since people have lived past then).


But honestly, radiation batters your immune system, it doesn't affect you in the way you describe, all that is, is fear mongery by CND (or somesuch) people trying to fear people into not having Nuclear fission power because they don't understand, and therefore fear it.

Governments will tell you that radiation isn't that serious, some certain people say otherwise, so I guess it's down to opinion what you believe, as radioactivity is still somewhat of an anomaly, and nobody on this forum has experiences the levels of radiation sustained in the Chernobyl/Pripyat area.

High acute radiation doses does cause death though That's not even debatable.

8+ Sv is probably going to cause seizures, hemorrhages and certainly rapid death.

IMPORTANT WARNING - GRAPHIC IMAGES OF IRRADIATED CHILDREN

Try watching this if your so confident that radiation is healthy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fCCVU4y7oE

Also, try doing some research yourselves on the effects of radiation on the people of Japan, Chernobyl, Falugah ( http://www.independent.co.uk/n ... an-hiroshima-2034065.html )

And remember too that this time your also being dosed with plutonium.

Also remember that the IAEA and WHO work together, so that means that WHO statements are dubious to say the least. They are, after all controlled by the nuclear industry.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm ... o-nuclear-power-chernobyl

"The subordination of the WHO to IAEA is a key part of the systematic falsification of nuclear risk which has been under way ever since Hiroshima, the agreement creates an unacceptable conflict of interest in which the UN organisation concerned with promoting our health has been made subservient to those whose main interest is the expansion of nuclear power."

Quote from RasmusL :

High acute radiation doses does cause death though That's not even debatable.

8+ Sv is probably going to cause seizures, hemorrhages and certainly rapid death.

People can survive 8+ Sv.

LD50: 2.5 - 5 Sv
LD100: 10 Sv

Source: cdc.gov

Alright, it's possible, although extremely unlikely, to survive 8. Surviving 10 has never been documented though.
Anyway the point was that radiation causes death. It's not necessarily a secondary infection that causes it.

Quote from BlueFlame :

No, I didn't have time to read that link.

I don't believe people die from 'old age' because if that was the case everyone would die at a set age, say 100 for instance (since people have lived past then).

It takes 2 mins to scan that link and know radiation alone can kill. You probably should do so before you try to say radiation never kills again.

Radiation destroys the protein and chromosomes in your cells, you will lose bone marrows and have holes in your bone, it is not some government BS it is scientific research, go search for it online. If you don't trust the internet, go to a library and find a paper on it.

I really don't understand how your logic works, every person's life expectancy will of course be different. Even identical twins living together eating the same food won't grow up by the exact same margin and die at the exact same moment.

Hey JJ save your fingers from arthritis, you will need them later!! Lets say, you're probably going to have an awesome conversation, with someone else!

Quote from BlueFlame :

Nobody will be dead due to radiation exposure, not yet anyway. Exposure to radiation, even highly extreme, won't kill you instantly, it just renders your immune system disabled and the severity of how weakened it is depends on length and intensity of exposure, basically radiation exposure just opens the door for virus/cancer etc because white blood cells and immune system can't function 100% and can't attack the bad elements coming into the body.

Quote from BlueFlame :

But honestly, radiation batters your immune system, it doesn't affect you in the way you describe

Have you have even slightest idea what are you talking about? JJ is describing scientifically proven effects on humans body and yet you come here with your own logic and are trying claim that when Exposed to radiaton you'll get HIV/AIDS...

Ive read few posts above about radiation effects, I just want to add something

In EU the year limit for working in radioactive environment is 20mSv..a year. All radiation - large/small doses affects iodine which is stored in thyroid and -may- cause cancer. That's why people in Japan got iodine pills - to replace and block iodine from environment.

Doses larger than 200mSv are affecting the blood. No visible signs, but loss of red/white blood cells occurs thus lowers one's immune system and highers risk of infections. So infections are not directly from radiation.

Doses higher than 500mSv may make males infertile. Females from 2000mSv. Doses 2000 and above starts to damage soft organic tissue - stomach and intestine. That's why diarrhea, vomiting (may include blood) occurs...with hair loss due to damaged skin cells.

Doses above 6000mSv damage bone marrow which stops creating new blood cells. You will die in fiew days/weeks, with transfusion perhaps months hairless, shitting and vomiting blood.

Very high doses - above 10Sv damage your heart and arteries immediately - instant death.

Quote from -NightFly- :

yet you come here with your own logic and are trying claim that when Exposed to radiaton you'll get HIV/AIDS...

So everyone in the world is exposed to AIDS? You'll only get it in the same way you will get it whether you've been exposed to radioactivity or not, but one thing is for sure, if you're exposed to heavy radiation and then you det HIV or develop AIDS, you ain't gonna live for long but would it be the radiation that killed you? Or the AIDS that finished you off? Think about it, without that HIV, that example person may have survived, so you'd say radiation didn't kill them, HIV did.

DO YOU GET MY POINT YET? NO, OK ;

My point was that the figures are developed by scare mongers, they assume because they Soviets information was eventually leaked, that there MUST be more numbers accounted for than what was leaked. In regards to Chernobyl, 200,000 casualties is highly excessive, a complete over-exaggeration. People died at the plant, then yes, I'm agreeing to call those victims directly of Chernobyl radiation, but in terms of people bleeding from every orifice? That's odd, I've watched countless Chernobyl documentaries and I've never heard that in my life. As for the disabled/deformed children, they may be VICTIMS of the disaster indirectly, but they're not casualties, it's ignorant and sickening to think that they are already dead when they have so much life still ahead of them.

Victim does not = casualty.
Victims survive, casualties do not.


Also, when I said nobody will die to radiation exposure (not yet anyway). I was referring to the Japanese incident, NOT Chernobyl.

so unless a person dies instantly or in a very short period of time due to exposure to extreme amounts of radiation,
they're not considered casualties if they still die way earlier than the usual life expectancy would suggest, due to complications caused by the exposure?

Okay, on one hand, i'd agree that casualty isn't the most accurate word, as its impossible to actually tally the people who died as a result of the Chernobyl disaster for example... Affected would be a better way to round them all up, perhaps

On the other hand
you are just obscuring the facts and statistics that you don't like, or don't believe for reasons only known to you, and are simply enforcing your own narrow point of view or version of truth upon people.

once again you're just creating an argument for the sake of it, where there even isn't an argument.

edit:you edited after i started writing my reply, main point still stands. will add corrections later

Quote from Fuse5 :

so unless a person dies instantly or in a very short period of time due to exposure to extreme amounts of radiation,
they're not considered casualties if they still die way earlier than the usual life expectancy would suggest, due to complications caused by the exposure?

Okay, on one hand, i'd agree that casualty isn't the most accurate word, as its impossible to actually tally the people who died as a result of the Chernobyl disaster for example... Affected would be a better way to round them all up, perhaps

On the other hand
you are just obscuring the facts and statistics that you don't like, or don't believe for reasons only known to you, and are simply enforcing your own narrow point of view or version of truth upon people.

once again you're just creating an argument for the sake of it, where there even isn't an argument.

edit:you edited after i started writing my reply, main point still stands. will add corrections later

As I said before, you don't have to 'open up your mind' to be with the right mentality, sometimes being a little bit closed minded gives you unclouded judgement.

Alot of people could see a man with no head, hear that it's to do with radioactivity when they have no personal proof (or proof at all) and say "O DATS DED BAD DAT IS RADIOACTIVITY".

What do we really know about the effects of radioactivity on the human body? Well, nothing, compared to even cancer lets say.

Here we go again... :doh:

BF is now just being stupid in the most accurate meaning of the word

edit: and i'll add JJ's link once more, I really suggest you to read it: http://listverse.com/2010/03/2 ... es-of-death-by-radiation/

Whatever, panic mong if you want, what good does it do?

Well... if the survival strategy for this is the same as what it is with a nuclear bomb's detination... I suggest that everybody gets into the corner of their nearest brick wall. Otherwise, there's not much that anybody can do about it so why panic?

Quote from Cornys :

Well... if the survival strategy for this is the same as what it is with a nuclear bomb's detination... I suggest that everybody gets into the corner of their nearest brick wall. Otherwise, there's not much that anybody can do about it so why panic?

I may not be detecting the sarcasm, but what you say is true anyway.

oh and just out of curiosity
where is this panic that you so often and illustriously describe?

It's really impressive to see how enthusiastic so many of you are about having your environment and futures irradiated.
The IAEA will be so proud of you :lovies3d:

For those of you who are actually concerned about your futures and that of future generations the following may be of some help http://blog.imva.info/medicine ... nts-nuclear-contamination