Massa just doesn't know when to give up a place, which was seen in the tunnel.

Alonso v Heidfield. Monaco 2008.

(3:25)

As far as I remember, Alonso didnt get a penalty. Forward 3 years, Di Resta and Lewis both get D/T's. What gives.

Suppose Alonso is a ****ing idiot too then....

Clear as day, Massa turned in on him. Also, Maldonado did the same to Lewis. Turning in too early.

Yep - looks like an avoidable collision. Just like football though, where different referees make different calls. At least they were consistent with Di Resta and Hamilton (x2) in 2011.

Massa takes a completely unnatural line. Lewis would easily be alongside at the turn in point. Massa just diagonals to the inside as soon as he sees the move coming. Lewis moves left to avoid contact. Desperation on the part of Massa imo. Maldonado does something similar.

The two moves are arguably less risky or dangerous than the Webber pass on Kob at the end. It's only the run off that meant Kob had an inch of room to use. Kob probably should have just diagonalled to the inside and let Webber "hit him".

I've got a spyshot. McLaren is working on a new front wing project.

Quote from sinbad :

Massa takes a completely unnatural line. Lewis would easily be alongside at the turn in point. Massa just diagonals to the inside as soon as he sees the move coming.

Yup that unnatural line is called defending.

what ought to be a classic monaco race ruined with the biggest anti climax.

If he was defending he wouldn't have allowed a gap in the first place.

I think Massa was basically looking at having a go at Webber, and was caught out by Hamilton. In my book a 'racing incident'. These stupid penalties are pathetic.

As I say... just turn in regardless and you'll be fine.

Quote from JJ72 :

Yup that unnatural line is called defending.

what ought to be a classic monaco race ruined with the biggest anti climax.

No it's not, , defending would be approaching the braking area on that side of the track, not moving over once you're already there. Hamilton is allowed to try and overtake, he's not out of control or too fast, and given reasonable room (i.e not closed off on a straight section of road) would have been more than far enough alongside at the turn in point.

Masaa was doing the classic late entry for a better exit, forgot to look in his mirrors and turned in too late and sharply to block when he saw Halimton.

The more I look at that incident the more I think Massa was having a go at Webber and would have hit him regardless. Hamilton lost out by not braking earlier and letting that happen. He would have been able to pick up the place after Massa decided to look at the tunnel wall a bit closer, and if he hadn't would have got a penalty himself - wouldn't he??

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Masaa was doing the classic late entry for a better exit, forgot to look in his mirrors and turned in too late and sharply to block when he saw Halimton.

except that was an early entry

Quote from Intrepid :

Rule #1 in motorsport... leave a gap expect to be punished.

Since everyone brings up Senna when talking about Hamilton.

Link.
"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver."

Quote from gezmoor :

Finally, what is the point of a penalty that ends in no actual loss of points? 20 second penalty when he was so far ahead of the next car is laughable, he should be happy he was let off that second incident, as he didn't actually suffer from the so called penalty in any way. IMO he should have been given a placement penalty and knocked back two or more positions.

A drive through should take 20 seconds of track time. The 20 second penalty is a retro active drive through penalty. So if they had given him a drive through for that crash he'd have still been ahead.

/end debate

Schumi saw him late... but saw him he did.. and conceded. Arguably Hamilton had even more overlap with the move on Maldanado. Racing incident, no more no less. You couldn't ask for a better move up the inside into St Devote. Quite funny reading so much praise for the move on Schumi by journos yet the same ones criticise the Maldanado move where Hamilton was probably in a cleaner position.

Thanks for that, i've circulated it a little just to shut up some idiots

Quote from Intrepid :

/end debate

Schumi saw him late... but saw him he did.. and conceded. Arguably Hamilton had even more overlap with the move on Maldanado. Racing incident, no more no less. You couldn't ask for a better move up the inside into St Devote. Quite funny reading so much praise for the move on Schumi by journos yet the same ones criticise the Maldanado move where Hamilton was probably in a cleaner position.

Just look at the pictures.You can see that in Hamilton/Schumi their lines are way different than in Hamilton/Maldonado. Maldonado is positioned exactly where Hamilton is against Schumi. When Schumi turned in there was room for Hamilton, and when Maldonado turned in there wasn't. Hamilton couldn't have pulled that move off even if Maldonado gave him room. He would've pushed Maldonado into wall with that angle and speed. You can also see that when Maldonado starts turning in Hamilton's wing isn't even at the level of Maldonado's front tires. Both Maldonado and Schumacher held their lines but the difference is that with Schumacher there was room. In later one there wasn't.

To move the discussion on...

Why did Kobayashi did not get penalised for his move on Sutil?

Quote from Juzaa :

Just look at the pictures.You can see that where in Hamilton/Schumi their lines are way different than in Hamilton/Maldonado. Maldonado is where Hamilton is against Schumi. When Schumi turned in there was room for Hamilton, and when Maldonado turned in there wasn't. Hamilton couldn't have pulled that move off even if Maldonado gave him room. He would've pushed Maldonado into wall with that angle and speed. You can also see that when Maldonado starts turning in Hamilton's wing isn't even at the level of Maldonado's front tires. Both Maldonado and Schumacher held their lines but the difference is that with Schumacher there was room. In later one there wasn't.

Your starting to sound desperate in the face of evidence.

it's a racing incident nothing more. Maldanado just didn't see Hamilton who had sufficient overlap and turned in. He had left a gap, then semi-defended but still leaving said gap. Maldanado made a silly mistake and paid the price. Why it wasn't called a racing incident I do not know and why Koby got off scott free...???

You're telling me that it doesn't matter what angle and speed you come from? Try to do 90 degree turn driving 180km/h on a track that's 5 meters wide. What you're saying is that even if I come from an angle that doesn't give any hope of finishing the corner without crashing I'm to be given room. I don't think so. Both Schumacher and Maldonado did turn to the corner the same way. They just were in different positions. One made it possible to overtake and the other didn't. It's that simple.

Quote from Juzaa :

You're telling me that it doesn't matter what angle and speed you come from? Try to do 90 degree turn driving 180km/h on a track that's 5 meters wide. What you're saying is that even if I come from an angle that doesn't give any hope of finishing the corner without crashing I'm to be given room. I don't think so. Both Schumacher and Maldonado did turn to the corner the same way. They just were in different positions. One made it possible to overtake and the other didn't. It's that simple.

but hamilton was on the inside cleanly... it doesn't matter if he has a car width of space on the straight, or is on the other side of the track, he gets a car width at the apex. Maldonado didn't give it to him and paid the price.

He's a racing driver, he's not gonna back out just because some rookie might make a mistake and turn in on him.

Hamilton was actually further to the left of the track when he started that move, it wasn't until Maldanado moved across him did he have to take a much tighter line. Maldanado started on the same line as Schumacher, but unlike Schumacher who saw Hamilton and kept a wide line, Maldanado just turned in and expected Hamilton to stop on a dime.

It is something I've noticed a lot in F1 of late, younger drivers are just turning into the corner without looking and hoping for the best. The result is a lot of carbon all over the track.

... and a lot of wrong penalties.

Thank f*ck I don't play car racing... it's pathetic. I think I'd lose my mind when then I have to spend another thousand quid fixing front wings lol Racing takes mutual understanding of drivers... some have it.. some don't.

Just look at Hamilton's racing line with Maldonado. Even if he had driven straight forward would he have cut the corner. You're telling me that Maldonado should've actually turned left in a corner that turns right just because Hamilton's coming in an impossible line?.

Quote from Juzaa :

Just look at Hamilton's racing line with Maldonado. Even if he had driven straight forward would he have cut the corner. You're telling me that Maldonado should've actually turned left in a corner that turns right just because Hamilton's coming in an impossible line?.

He should have recognised earlier a car was on his inside like a certain Mr Schumacher who proved that it is possible not to crash when someone overtakers you into T1.

The image you've posted is one frame and is merely the consequence of maldanado not using his mirrors and slamming his car blindly into Hamilton. In the contest of the the sequence of photos the evidence is damming... What we have is quite clearly a 'racing incident'.

At the end of the day Maldanado left a gap and crashed because he wasn't smart enough to recognise that racing drives will see gaps and go for them.