I made a little tyre tweak and posted it on RSC. Feels a bit better IMO and its just small messing about that I've done. Here's the link:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... 3124337&postcount=290

The funniest thing though, while doing this: several compounds run off the same slip angle vs lateral grip and slip ratio vs traction curves, just with different tyre specs...

And better yet, you get coeficients for the lateral and longitudinal force for dry weather - seperate for front and rear tyres.

Quote from ebola :

What strikes me is that absolutely nobody mentions LFS as though its some kind of taboo word.

"LFS is teh arcadey because it has lame fantasy cars!!"

I think it's really sad that so many simmers are spoiled by real licenses. I don't underestimate real licenses because it's really a factor that simply makes cars more sexy but some people just don't get it that physics can be more realistic even if the car model is replaced by a monkey 3d model.

After being away for the weekend, I did some follow up reading on the RSC forums, and while I thought it couldn't get more pathetic, the GTR2 section has proven me wrong.

It's kinda funny seeing them have a slap fight over wether rFactor or GTR2 is better, to which the avid LFSers reaction can only be ":rolleyes:". So while these threads had about 5% quality posts in them (I'm being friendly), they atleast provided some good laughs here and there.

Tried the GTR2 demo shortly, and if my memory serves me correct, it's quite better than GTR was - but as we know 'better' is a relative term, so that doesn't mean jack shit. I was very much underwhelmed by the graphics, which I thought would be atleast the outstanding feature of GTR2. The remaining rest is still the same pile of randomly thrown together FF effects, and the feeling for the car shines through its absence. I'd rather buy nkPro in its current state than this. Which I will not.

alllllllright; i got it working!

running DX8! wow, and everything at max, although... its at 640x480 resolution, the game runs at a high FPS in DX8, and runs fantastic

i kinda like it (graphic wise of course)

it still handles funny; almost.. well, in DX7, it was like.. jagged, the car acted as if it was on a low poly "rail".. it was strange

this probably isn't usefull lol, but overall i liked it (which i liked the original GTR too)

i wont say whether its realistic or not because i've never been in a car with that much horsepower .. and slicks

Some amazing coding! Looks like random crash corrupts the files or something. I was playing and CPU obviously overheated and computer crashed (damn room door is closed in the night so pretty hot here) and now when I try to play and choose "time trial" or "race weekend" it crashes to the desktop.

I actually enjoyed it. It's far better than GTR1, although still nothing close to LFS... The cars still feel vague, and it doesn't run nearly as well as LFS on my system, but as far as I'm concerned, they're in different leagues.

LFS is more fun to drive, more connected, better for serious racing, just better all around. GTR is fun if you want to mess around on the Nurburgring offline in stupidly overpowered cars, I treat GTR like a mostly realistic Arcade game, more comprable to Forza than LFS.

I think I'll buy GTR, I know it and LFS can exist peacefully on my hard drive together

Quote from 96 GTS :

I treat GTR like a mostly realistic Arcade game, more comprable to Forza than LFS.

thats a bit harsh ... it deserves the lable sim ... what it doesnt deserve though is being called a 21st century sim everything from its effect driven ffb to its apparently largely non real time math driven physics is very 20th century and built for cpus that couldnt take the load sims like lfs put on them

Quote from Shotglass :

thats a bit harsh ... it deserves the lable sim ... what it doesnt deserve though is being called a 21st century sim everything from its effect driven ffb to its apparently largely non real time math driven physics is very 20th century and built for cpus that couldnt take the load sims like lfs put on them

That a good description. That said, GTR2 seems to be very GPU-heavy. So much in fact that it creates a little lag which is annoying and makes things harder to control. And I know it's not CPU-related because LFS is CPU-heavy and runs perfectly fine here. Poor poor GTR2 thing, I'm not gonna buy a gfx card upgrade just for it sorry.
Appart from that, the rain effect is awesome and I don't think I can find words to say how much I hate the FFB. Not like it tells me what the car is doing at all.

Quote from Nick_ll :

Appart from that, the rain effect is awesome

how so ? ive nerver seen w road reflect across the whole width of it ? gp4 looked better in that regard as it had puddles and sections which didnt reflect much of anything

My flame jacket is on, and I'm gonna say that I quite like it. It has it's problems (like the strange behaviour on some of the kerbs and at low speed still...and what the hell is with the crash physics?!) but it does actually feel fairly real. LFS is great and very realistic, but it doesn't really give me the same feeling I get when racing real cars or karts. By that I mean that it can be very unpredictable and when you try braking a little later or try a different line you just fly off the road. This is honestly fairly unrealistic and the only bad thing about LFS. I don't know why it's like it is...it's just a 'feeling'. For some reason GTR2 seems to allow a rhythm a lot more easily. I can apply tactics I apply IRL like perhaps I'll try braking here next time or....maybe if I turn in here I can get a faster exit.

As I said.....it's not perfect, but there are lots of elements I like.

From what I've seen, the general consensus is

1. The raw tyre grip is too high. Lap times are ~8 seconds faster then their RL counterpart. Reducing tarmac grip by 10% (to 0.9) seems to fix the problem and makes alot of the old GTR feel reappear.
   :-Þ
   
2. The lateral force vs. slip angle curves are totally off, atleast according to Todd (and I rather believe him).
   

Don't get me wrong from my last post, GTR2 is actually a pretty good game in my opinion. If I didn't know LFS, I'd probably be all over it and praise it for its realism. The problem many of us have is that they've "seen the light" with LFS, which shows how things can be sooo much better. After playing LFS, the term "realism" has a whole different meaning to me, not only regarding the accuracy of a specific thing, but also which parts of a game it refers to. For me, realism is 90% regarding the tyre physics, while maybe for other people alot more would come from the immersion - or rather the illusion of racing - provided by a product.

LFS in that regard is pretty lacking. The sounds, while highly informative, do not really provide a good immersion/illusion of the real thing. The cockpits in the actual race cars? Same. The race management in a whole, as in very quick pick up races with very short delays to everything, doesn't help either. I can actually see why people would refer to LFS as "arcadey", because it is, regarding the presentation and preparation of races.

The point is, most(?) LFS racers have a completely different priority and understanding of realism. If someone says LFS feels arcadey, I'd normally not even think that he could mean anything else than the physics. Arcade means easy to pick up and quick fun/action. And we have exactly that in the way I've already pointed out. Actually, I'd also like to keep the possibility for it to be like that, but at the same time the option to make the race management more "professional", regarding proper training/qualy/race, proper pit stops where you only have one assigned box, a pitcrew, etc. But I guess that's all scheduled for S3

Sorry for drifting OT, this is actually about GTR2 *slaps self*

Directly out of tyre definition files:

SpeedEffects=(297.5,32.0) // Speed at which grip drops to half (m/s, 0.0 to disable), speed load equivalency (see above)

No comment.

Great point, Android. I've been puzzled in the past when I saw people on other forums refer to LFS as "arcadey", but your post helps me get it now. I was thinking of tyre physics and they were thinking of immersion.

+1 for the idea that LFS could eventually have more immersive, realistic race procedures, sounds, interiors, etc., to supply the kind of realism fix that GTR fans seem to appreciate.

But if I had to choose -- like you, tyre physics all the way.

i thought it was the menus, they do give it the air of NFS or something, but i like them!

anyone figure out how to get original gtl tracks to work?

Quote from Gabkicks :

anyone figure out how to get original gtl tracks to work?

Look at RSC and download the Bathurst track conversion, that shows you the naming structure you need (and you need to edit one of the files in notepad, change .gtl to .gtr).

doesnt work for original gtl tracks ...only addons.

i have to say, this game is amazing. The gameplay is basically pick up and play, which i like after slugging it out on lfs, and the graphics and car sounds are amazing.. this and LFS will happily coexist on my HD... Driving round the Nurburgring in a Lambo, then going for a quick sping round croft = amazing. (Pic is corkscrew at Laguna Seca)

http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkradialrh4.jpg

Quote from axus :

Directly out of tyre definition files:

SpeedEffects=(297.5,32.0) // Speed at which grip drops to half (m/s, 0.0 to disable), speed load equivalency (see above)

No comment.

you gotta be kidding ?

Quote from Jakg :

i thought it was the menus, they do give it the air of NFS or something, but i like them!

to me they look a hell of a lot more professinal than the ones in rfactor or gtr
lfs' menues are a lot cleaner than the ones in theose 2 games

GTR's i hate, BUT they look more proffesional and "simlike" as a post to LFS

Quick Movie of me driving round croft, ignore the little mistake near the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSUL637O0BQ

screw the demo.

If you have GTL go here http://eagle.thenz.org/viewtopic.php?t=77 and see which file you need. GTL with the gtr2 demo cars, few bugs like bonnet doesn't show on inside view on a few cars, brake glow is on constant, but i can live with that for the moment

Seems like simbin knew this would happen, and made it easy to do - makes me want gtr2 even more now

Quote from DejaVu :

screw the demo.

If you have GTL go here http://eagle.thenz.org/viewtopic.php?t=77 and see which file you need. GTL with the gtr2 demo cars, few bugs like bonnet doesn't show on inside view on a few cars, brake glow is on constant, but i can live with that for the moment

Seems like simbin knew this would happen, and made it easy to do - makes me want gtr2 even more now

yeah, because there both the same engine, everything is basically interchangeable. GTL tracks work on, GTL cars will likely work on GTR2, and vice versa

yes but gtl tracks don't work on the demo - files like that aren't all inter-changable, most tracks/cars within gtr/gtl are encrypted - but these demo cars aren't.

i cant seem to get any 3rd party addon GTL tracks to work on the demo?