Quote from Tweaker :

@Kev and Hyper:

Doesn't mean that someone can't drive a stick because of their origin. Stick takes practice for most people, and it isn't easy right off the bat.

Isn't that what I just said? What a dumb comment! And the origin has no relevance in this case. 0. What a dumb comment!

Here's what I said earlier, I have underline the hard part for you, I can enlarge the text too if it's still too dizzy...? What a dumb comment!

Quote from Hyperactive :

I guess no one told the kid that he needs to check if the gear is in, how to check it and what are the other 2 pedals for. Not every 14 years-old rich kid knows these. And not so many 13 years-old have driven cars, not even 17... I guess the kid just didn't know what to do and the result is a garage with one wall less and a new bike for the kid...

Quote from Tweaker :

More small accidents happen from inexperienced stick users than any automatic user that last I heard. Automatic is safer (easier) for our streets at least, which is why it is the more dominant option on cars you buy nowadays. Expecting someone to drive stick is like expecting someone to do a flip on a bike... not everyone will do it, not everyone will succeed, and for how long would one continue doing it until they realize it isn't safe?

Agreed on the part that automatic is easier than manual. In US most cars are bought with automatic transmissions and in Europe with manual transmissions. There is nothing wrong either way. But everyone can learn to use manual, it isn't something totally hard or near impossible. What a dumb comment!

Quote from Tweaker :

So be proud you are the one that can do it (wow stick!), but who the hell cares?

You missed the point by a mile. Do I really need to explain that the "good point! etc..." was meant to be a joke. Jeez What a dumb comment!

Just to make it sure I say it again:
To know how to drive a car with manual transmission you need to know what is clutch, what is gear stick and how they work together. The kid oviously had no idea as most 14 yearls-olds don't. Only people who have driven a car with manual transmission know how to drive it. And this is a general insult towards every american. What a dumb comment!

Quote from Tweaker :

I've seen videos of most driving in Europe and yeah, there is fewer stops for sure. Maybe even fewer cars in Europe? The pollution & traffic in Los Angeles for example, eughhhhh.

you dont know what traffic truly is until youve driven a car in an italian city

The kid had to atleast know to hold the clutch in to start the car. Unless this car does not have that safety option equipped? Every manual I've driven had to have the clutch pushed down before the starter would even turn over the engine.

Quote from Hyperactive :

And the origin has no relevance in this case.
......
And this is a general insult towards every american.

Oh???? What a dumb comment!!

Seriously though... I am not in some mode where I am insulted, this is just all to common to hear things coming from the mouths of some of you.... I've heard the joke about "Americans can only drive automatics" all too many times....

Maybe I should say "Europeans can only drive stick"... hardy har har !!!!!! :chairfall But wow, what a dumb comment!

Quote from Shotglass :

you dont know what traffic truly is until youve driven a car in an italian city

Damn, I'll know what to look out for if I ever go there then (I really want to see Italy). How it compares to San Francisco or New York, I'll have to wait and see

Anyways... funny video, its what we should be laughing about here....

sad to see a pretty car in the hands of such inconsiderate people -_-

Quote from Tweaker :

Damn, I'll know what to look out for if I ever go there then (I really want to see Italy). How it compares to San Francisco or New York, I'll have to wait and see

for starters in nyc youre probably not constantly dodging scooters which seem to come out of nowhere

and i dont think the typically mediteranean rule that the road has as many lanes as cars will fit onto it side by side regardless of the lines on the road doesnt apply in the us either

Heheh, well speaking of scooters, I don't think I'll ever visit India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

Quote from Tweaker :

Heheh, well speaking of scooters, I don't think I'll ever visit India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

illepall WTF! That is absolutely insane!

Quote from Shotglass :

for starters in nyc youre probably not constantly dodging scooters which seem to come out of nowhere

and i dont think the typically mediteranean rule that the road has as many lanes as cars will fit onto it side by side regardless of the lines on the road doesnt apply in the us either

on the jeremy clarkson show from a decade or so ago (motorworld) there was an episode on Italy.

I live in a rural town. I worked in Pittsburgh PA, about 40 miles away. It took me a half hour for the first 30 miles. Take a guess how long it took to drive the final 10 miles when I hit the city limits? Over an hour. Over an hour to drive 10 miles. That's traffic. When you move 2 feet and stop, 2 feet and stop, over and over again for 10 miles, you tend to love an automatic.

That said, I of course drove a stick. Let the clutch out half way, push and hold it, let out half way, push and hold, for 10 miles.

Now even in the rural town of Butler Pa that I grew up in is heavy in traffic. I now live way out away from everything. I can't stand to drive into my home town anymore due to the traffic and the traffic lights.

And it's not a "American's can't drive manual" thing. Most of them just plain can't drive! I go crazy out on the road when I encounter a lot of people. They just can't drive. You have women who can't drive, old folks who shouldn't be driving, people who can't drive in the snow, people who can't drive in the freakin rain. Folks drive super slow, don't signal, pull out in front of you, tailgate, can't read or figure out what lane to be in to turn, and it goes on and on and on.

Yes, I am in America, born in America, and I'm saying American's can't drive. Well, I should be stating US as I can't say about our neighbor's to the north and south.

Me? An American? You bet your ARSE I can drive!!!

Quote from NetDemon01 :

The kid had to atleast know to hold the clutch in to start the car. Unless this car does not have that safety option equipped? Every manual I've driven had to have the clutch pushed down before the starter would even turn over the engine.

No, I think not any of european cars have that and also automatic seatbelts, no we don't have those, also in our coffee cups there is no warnings about hot coffee.

It is different philosophy, here user is responsible, in US manufacturer is responsible. I know, it is not 100% like that, but idea is bit like that way.

Quote from Tweaker :

Heheh, well speaking of scooters, I don't think I'll ever visit India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

looks like a normal day in fü or fo to me (one for the locals from my area if there are any

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Hehe. I remember asking my girlfriend what the rules were for driving around roundabouts/circles and she said "I don't know but nobody else knows either". It was basically a case of shut your eyes and floor it.

roundabouts are a mess in germany ever since they changed the rules a few years back

tweaker, your argument is that an auto is safer than a manual.

if moving a stick back or forth and pushing a pedal is so mentaly challenging for someone that it makes him an unsafe driver... maybe that someone shouldn't be driving at all.

Quote from george_tsiros :

tweaker, your argument is that an auto is safer than a manual.

if moving a stick back or forth and pushing a pedal is so mentaly challenging for someone that it makes him an unsafe driver... maybe that someone shouldn't be driving at all.

It's safer for the sake of hills and the flow of traffic (and in this video's case, safer for kids that want to start a cool new car so they don't drive it into a wall!!!! lol). Not refering to if it is safer in the sense that someone would or wouldn't know the physical movement required to do it. You still have the chance of stalling the car and causing an accident one way or another, how would you do such a thing with automatic?

Quote from NetDemon01 :

At the end do I hear "Don't worry you'll get a new bike" ?? This is pretty funny. Stupid kid, even dumber Dad or whoever gave him the keys.

I thought he said something about getting a new bonnet O_o

And what's all this about stick. I find stick easier to drive than auto, plus I feel I have more control over the car, rather than some computer (I like to be able to chuck the car into 3rd and know it'll be in thrid and not just put it in D and try to guess what gear I'm in). The only problems I've known people have with stick is stalling because they didn't know to clutch when they braked.

Autos are for lazy people, and you start to pick up bad habbits from owning an auto, that when you switch back to manual you carry over. If I lived in say London, well I'd walk, but if I was to crawl... I mean "drive" in London, then yes I'd get myself an auto otherwise I'd need a new clutch every 24 hours because I'd be riding it.

And I was thinking about stick and auto stateside, and it got me thinking. Do you have two versions of the licence, one for manual/auto, and one just for auto depending what you take the test in, or can you pass driving anything and drive anything?

Also, do you guys never use the handbrake when you park? I've been watching a lot of American/Canadian shows recently (Due South being one), and every time they stop a car it rolls slightly as they get out because they don't pull on the handbrake. Is it just TV where the actors don't know what a handbrake is for or do you all do it?

Quote from Tweaker :

It's safer for the sake of hills and the flow of traffic (and in this video's case, safer for kids that want to start a cool new car so they don't drive it into a wall!!!! lol). Not refering to if it is safer in the sense that someone would or wouldn't know the physical movement required to do it. You still have the chance of stalling the car and causing an accident one way or another, how would you do such a thing with automatic?

And that is why you learn to drive in a manual car, you stall when you're in a car that screams to all other drivers "I'm a douche behind the wheel stay away". Very few people still stall after they pass the test because they are taught what to do. Of course it doesn't mean they know how to drive, they mearly know how to pass the test.

Also you can a stall an auto, it requires and eletrical problem that takes the garage 4 months to find, but the risk is still there.

tweaker, in a manual, there is the risk of stalling (how a stalled car is a danger, just because it stalled is beyond me, but anyway), in the auto there are other risks (including "not learned how to fully control a car"). So in the end, there are risks in both cases. Driving is inherently risky, anyway. however you are more competent at using the car as a device, if you have learned stick shift, therefore you are in better control. That driver is better prepared to take the risk of driving a car.

or do you think that removing drivers' responsibilities leads to better drivers?

oh wait, it has begun... automatic sprinklers, automatic lights...

in an auto you are not a driver. you are a "passenger with steering wheel".

I do agree that making driving a car effortless really can make you a worse driver, but ehh, there are new advancements in cars all the time, and when the automatic transmission came, it was a big deal. Now we have Lexus's that can parallel park themselves, have cameras, and all that other high tech stuff. I don't know if these things make a driver safer, but it sure does look like those are the intent of such things... and not just because the driver is dumb.

There are however good drivers and bad drivers. Even here in LFS! Not everyone is good at driving a car, regardless of what shifting method they use. Because one could say that automatic makes you more focused on the throttle/brake and steering to drive really well (and automatic drivers CAN drive really well), the crucial parts to making it stop and go. And also stick would be a handful for some people. Then again there is another side to this. Automatic would make you less aware and in-tune with the car, whereas stick would. It's not all that biased if you think about it.

Quote from george_tsiros :

in an auto you are not a driver. you are a "passenger with steering wheel".

No no, I find these types on road every day with stick gears too, it is some kind of virus I believe

This is on of favourite war topics, auto or manual, but really there is no absolute answer to this, one fits to one and other to second, there is many situations where other is better than other, but eventually impossible to decide which is better, so get geartronic or something like that, automatic with a stick

In US, there is no parking brake, there is e-brake, if your normal brake fails, then they use it to stop car, not for parking, I have heard some pull e-brake when they needed to stop fast because of accident, well stopping was naturally not enough fast. It could be that this has started to change, but this is how it was years ago.

Like I said, different philosophy and it does not mean wrong or bad, just different.

Quote from Tweaker :

There are however good drivers and bad drivers. Even here in LFS!

And reallife too

Familiar situation from T1 ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s02H2zNHeMM

Sometimes there is that hit from behind ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8lm51skEk4

Quote from JTbo :

No no, I find these types on road every day with stick gears too, it is some kind of virus I believe

This is on of favourite war topics, auto or manual, but really there is no absolute answer to this, one fits to one and other to second, there is many situations where other is better than other, but eventually impossible to decide which is better, so get geartronic or something like that, automatic with a stick

Exactly what I'm saying :up:

Quote from JTbo :

In US, there is no parking brake, there is e-brake, if your normal brake fails, then they use it to stop car, not for parking, I have heard some pull e-brake when they needed to stop fast because of accident, well stopping was naturally not enough fast. It could be that this has started to change, but this is how it was years ago.

Ermmm it is still a parking brake. It is really only useful for that, but also useful for emergency situations if your brakes go out too. We do use it for parking (I live in a hilly area, and people in San Fran commonly use it too -- it's better to not 'rollback' when you put the car in park, so you crank the parking brake). It really isn't all that strong to stop a car as fast as normal brakes either. So if you wanted to use it in a last second emergency, it would help you AT ALL. It would take almost twice the distance to stop if you use the parking brake. My brakes were just going out, and I had to have them serviced. To be safe I had to use the parking brake several times to help slow my car down and not use full pressure on the brake pedal. All the times my brakes have gone bad in my car I've had to do this... and even when my brakes are 'fading' from downhill mountain driving, it is a good safety measure to have the car in low gear and to pump the parking brake whenever needed.

Quote from Tweaker :

I do agree that making driving a car effortless really can make you a worse driver, but ehh, there are new advancements in cars all the time, and when the automatic transmission came, it was a big deal. Now we have Lexus's that can parallel park themselves, have cameras, and all that other high tech stuff. I don't know if these things make a driver safer, but it sure does look like those are the intent of such things... and not just because the driver is dumb.

There are however good drivers and bad drivers. Even here in LFS! Not everyone is good at driving a car, regardless of what shifting method they use. Because one could say that automatic makes you more focused on the throttle/brake and steering to drive really well (and automatic drivers CAN drive really well), the crucial parts to making it stop and go. And also stick would be a handful for some people. Then again there is another side to this. Automatic would make you less aware and in-tune with the car, whereas stick would. It's not all that biased if you think about it.

They are made to make the driver and other people "safe", but in the end it makes lazy drivers who can't drive. Power steering, power assisted brakes, automatic, traction control, abs, reverse sensors, and what have you.

They were all added to make drivers "safer" but it just makes them lazy. One of my mates was on about how his mum is a great driver. Which at first I could believe, then he said something that made me want to hurt him "our new car has too much power, when she [his mother] pulls away the wheels spin", what he should have said was "the ammount of power in the new car is fine, but my mother can't do throttle control for shit so when she pulls away she gives it too much power and the computer can't kick in in time". His mum is a shit driver, the car however is great at it, all she does it point it in the right direction, the computer does everything else.

Like the new S Class, that braking system, yeah it's going to cut down on crashes maybe, but it takes control away from the driver, so the driver can do even less behind the wheel. THAT is what makes people sleep at the wheel. I've watched my dad drive for years, and when we had the old cars without any computers in them he was awesome. Now his getting auto's and cruse control and all the rest of the new junk cars have, his driving is going down hill. He nods off and starts to stray across white lines, he doesn't notice things he used to. All safety devices were installed as a good idea, but taking control of the car away from the driver and giving it to the car is going to end badly.

Quote from george_tsiros :

(how a stalled car is a danger, just because it stalled is beyond me, but anyway)

At an intersection a car in the opposite direction might be waiting at the light to turn left(yielding for an open spot to make the turn), and the driver starts to go in front of you with plenty of room, but doesn't give it enough gas and stalls it. He is now stalled in the middle of on-coming traffic. That is one instance when stalling is dangerous. Another could be over some railroad tracks

As for the parking brake, I use it every time I turn the engine off. Just habit really, have always done it and probably always will.

Quote from NetDemon01 :

At an intersection a car in the opposite direction might be waiting at the light to turn left(yielding for an open spot to make the turn), and the driver starts to go in front of you with plenty of room, but doesn't give it enough gas and stalls it. He is now stalled in the middle of on-coming traffic.

so the "oncoming traffic" will see a car in front of it... and drive straight in it. and the fault is that the poor guy stalled his car. set aside that there could have been an accident, malfunction, or whatever, you claim it is the *stalling* that is the risk here. yes. perfect.

i think you prefer automatic because you are incompetent and can't drive stick without stalling, or you are lazy and do not want to do the work, you want others to do it for you. you just want it easy.

besides, even if my car stalls, i can start it again in little more than a second. so the whole "stalling" argument is pointless :P

Quote from george_tsiros :

besides, even if my car stalls, i can start it again in little more than a second. so the whole "stalling" argument is pointless :P

Indeed, I've known people who can stall, turn their car back over and still make the gap in traffic they were going for.

And who the hell rolls into a train line after they stall? The first thing anyone with a brain would do is hit the brakes. But then that isn't a risk anyway, the only time you stop at a train line is if the gate is down, which means a train is going past, if you stalled when you started going again there wouldn't be a train to hit you. Where is the risk?