Quote from Bawbag :

On the topic of is it or isn't it cheating, it is, your taking an unfair advantage over your opponents. About two years ago I used the button clutch for XFG at blackwood because "everyone" done it, it gave less advantage back then and on every shift I would have to press the clutch at the right time, so it was faster when you done it properly but now when everyone is just setting up a macro it's just retared. They are shifting in the same way as we are, nothing more nothing less, yet they are gaining up to half a second a lap....

People who use it are just weak and desperate, end of.

+1, It's just that simple guys.

Quote from FlintFredstone :

I think if scawen just stops the button clutch speed (engauge speed, leave disengauge for anti-stall) a little it would combat the problem straight away

Simon

That might do the trick.

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

And now I ask again why would someone need manual clutch in a button. In what circumstances is that useful?

Quote from Bawbag :

The only use I can think of having the manual clutch is bump starting the car, the other reason I thought of was holding the clutch in on the start line and putting the car into first gear, though you don't even need to have manual clutch on in order to do this.

I have a manual clutch assigned to one of my wheel buttons. I use it when doing 360's in the RB4/FXR warming up the tires. It helps when the revs get so low that the car is nearly stalling, I then just engages the clutch to help raise the revs so the car can keep spinning.

Quote from Bean0 :

Removal of button clutch as an option is the only solution really.

Why? can't it be just as fast as the autoclutch?

You need to have a clutch of some sort when you have a wheel or whatever controller without clutch axis...
It's part of the car's controll.. no need to explain why you may need to operate it manualy.

I hope Scawen reads this thread, and share his view with us. I would be interested in it.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't read 7 pages long flame war

Quote from Kdovi :

I'm pretty sure he doesn't read 7 pages long flame war

If it was, I'm pretty sure this thread would have been locked a long time ago.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I hope Scawen reads this thread, and share his view with us. I would be interested in it.

If I was Scawen (and had time to read this thread) i wouldn't reply at all - i'd make my decision and act upon it, and then maybe make a quick "well I feel that it's [whatever]" post using my second account...

Quote from Jakg :

If I was Scawen (and had time to read this thread) i wouldn't reply at all - i'd make my decision and act upon it, and then maybe make a quick "well I feel that it's [whatever]" post using my second account...

Anything would be sufficient. Who knows though, they may be working on a solution to the problem as we speak...

wow lol nearly 15 000 POST jakg !!!
Gratz ^^

Gratz on having 105 posts and still being able to kick my ass in every car i've ever driven.

Very simple as far as I'm concerned. The script is not provided as part of the games code, so by definition it's an addition. This therefore makes it a cheat if it gives any advantage no matter how small over people using the original game code with no modifications. If it modifies code to gain improved performance in the game world then it's a cheat. It is in fact the definition of a cheat in the world of gaming.

well 2.06.30 on AS3 RB4 I let a message at the end of the replay.

Hah! I've been wondering why almost everyone has the 'ac' mark on LFSW hotlaps anyways..

How about we create a hotlap championship using only the cheat/exploit ?

How about keep using the existant, legitimate system without using any cheats/exploits?

Quote from migf1 :

How about keep using the existant, legitimate system without using any cheats/exploits?

That way we never get to know who has the bigger winnie, and in a few months this returns in another thread.
A few patchs ago , saving 2 or 3 gears and using a single shift was very commom...

Quote from migf1 :

How about keep using the existant, legitimate system without using any cheats/exploits?

+1

Hugo and me where having a conversation earlier and I was wondering... How many times have you seen a button clutch in real life? :cry:

If all your going to say is that this is a game then please understand that this is a simulator, not NFS.

I think it's a cheat.

Losing a race for a cheater is the same thing as winning the race and the cheater doesnt existing.

Do not forget, my friends, there will always be someone cheating the rules! And the desire to be able, to like, to have, will always want to try to be better than the other people for some way. That is the nature of humans.

That is why I am not mad those who seek to cheat. They have bad-fame, I do not. I always search for the fair side, I always value the respect, the passion of the simulator.

A cheater to me is a person that lacks respect for others.

It may not be official yet, but I think deep down everyone knows this is absolutely a cheat. I'm a long time PC gamer, beta tester, even some modding, and this is absolutely the definition of a cheat. At this exact moment in time some may be conflicted, but look at it this way.

If it were made clearly by the dev's/programmers that it "WAS" a cheat, probably only 5% of racers would have an issue with it. However, if it were made clear that it was "NOT" a cheat, I absolutely believe more than half of all racers would have a problem with it.

Quote from BigTime :

Hugo and me where having a conversation earlier and I was wondering... How many times have you seen a button clutch in real life? :cry:

If all your going to say is that this is a game then please understand that this is a simulator, not NFS.

Buttons instead of proper axis controls are there so you can drive in a way without having a wheel & analog pedals...
That doesn't mean that LFS is not a simulator... you can fit a real car with several servo control systems and drive it with a mouse or keys... it's just not practical in real life.

The problem is not the existence of the button... it's just have to be slower so it doesn't give an unrealistic advantage that also overcomes gearbox restrictions.

Quote from hugoluis :

I think it's a cheat.

Losing a race for a cheater is the same thing as winning the race and the cheater doesnt existing.

Do not forget, my friends, there will always be someone cheating the rules! And the desire to be able, to like, to have, will always want to try to be better than the other people for some way. That is the nature of humans.

That is why I am not mad those who seek to cheat. They have bad-fame, I do not. I always search for the fair side, I always value the respect, the passion of the simulator.

A cheater to me is a person that lacks respect for others.

If that's the case, would you care to re-do your road-car hotlaps, but using the auto-clutch this time?

Quote from duke_toaster :

.... Using scripts to do pit limiters and so-on is fine....

Sorry if this is a quote from way back on page 2. I've read every post in this thread and no-one has picked up on this. Duke, do I understand that you think it's fine to have a script that enables the pit limiter to engage/disengage automatically? Surely that means one could never get a Drive through penalty! The question of whether a script for gear changing leaves me unmoved as we're talking about nanoseconds but a pit limiter script sounds very much like cheating.

If it requires an external program then yes it smells bad, if you can do it within the confines of the LFS program then it has to be ok.

Personally i think its a cheat , it requires another external program to work.

Pure and simple, there's no grey area no matter how many pages of discussion there is...

I consider it an exploit. not as heavy as a cheat but it wouldnt feel nice if i knew the only reason i lose to that guy is because he does this.
I just think its wrong, and if i had a G25, i would do everything possible manual, even if it requires me to re-learn some stuff or slow my laptimes (they arent that great anyway). Damn i paid for clutch pedal an H- shifter. and it feels cooler and more realistic.

You said its because it uses an external program, but is that program made entirelly JUST for cheating? i dont think the logitech programmers did this just so you can win easier... thats why i dont consider it a cheat myself. It feels kinda nice knowing that he used the cheat to win. That means he sucks.Hard.

Quote from Calvinaquino :

It feels kinda nice knowing that he used the cheat to win. That means he sucks.Hard.

i agree