Superb.
Thanks for the links....could they not find a bigger trophy?

Your sound experiment is way over my head...but I will say that trying to understand the sound from a single cylinder will be easier to interpret....
...then making sense of the resonance at inlet/exhaust should become more apparent...two stroke can be easier or more complicated...depending on your train of thought- one crank rotation or two?

Quote from tristancliffe :

The Lotus was evil earlier in the year. I suspect almost anyone would have had similar incidents. What was actually impressive was how FEW crashes either of the drivers had. But it's cool to mock Maldonado...

You put Maldonado in the same category as Vet/Rai?
Having a name and having to fight for a name are two different things..but...what?

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

I dont give a shit about the engine noise or the ugly nose or whatever they changed. This racing was awesome!

I agree.
There is still a (very) dominant car...and a dominant engine...but still the others can win through with varying conditions (and various tyre choice/pit time gambles)...a great season of racing so far.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You seem to be drifting away from the point that reducing engine power by 5% shouldn't have an influence on braking in a given car, unless its a manual adjustment by choosing options in the setup menu.

Yes...you are right.

If the lights on the gear stick are not on then first thing to check is the power supply.

Quote from MoMo92i :

Yeah but unfortunately LFS doesn't have rain.

...but you have a wide range of tyres...and other methods to alter traction...
My example of real cars with incompatible weather/tyres is just to show how different the traction levels can be...and different traction levels require use of a different braking force.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But F1, GP2 and F3 cars don't lock their brakes no matter how hard the driver presses. If you lower the power of the engine than the braking ability does not change. So it shouldn't in LFS.

..but if your ("high downforce") car is now going slower would you not think that changing the brakes might be beneficial?
Do F1 cars run the exact same brake system with no alteration when running (wet) Monaco and (dry) Monza? Or do they adjust things?

Quote from cargame.nl :

Love is not enough argument.
Racing is about racing right?
... don't spend too much time on it as developer other then some porting capability importing tracks from Rfactor.
Love makes blind by the way

Of course you are mainly right...but if LFS could announce a track like the Nord. today the players would roll in pretty fast...along with their money.
More players will allow server owners to be more selective in the player choice...better player choice=better racing.

All highly subjective and totally off-topic now...

Quote from tristancliffe :

But that doesn't change the fact that an F1 car CANNOT LOCK ITS BRAKES AT >~150mph (without lateral load transfer) with 'normal' brake system designs.

..but it could with slicks in the wet?
If you had to run slicks and it was always wet..rules are one thing but to presume things are not possible due to rules is another...

LFS has a massive range of available braking force...and also ways to improve speed/traction...try...(I have been lazy again)....

Quote from tristancliffe :

In a high risk environment (an F1 meeting), how much risk is too much? 20%? 5%? 1%? 0.1%? And how does one quantify that in the heat of the moment?

Well for a few years now they have erred on the side of caution...better safe than sorry....it looked like they forgot all that for a moment.
I did not see much actual danger...but did expect a safety car...along with many others.

Quote from MoMo92i :

in a way you are wrong..............., yes your are right, your braking event is limited by your tyre grip.

Yes....we can go around in circles.

No matter how fast the vehicle is travelling or how much traction it has....we can use a braking system that can provide enough braking force to overcome the traction...real cars...(racing rules or how it should be done are not a consideration).

Of course the brake that can lock the wheels when there is maximum traction will be sensitive when there is minimal traction (without some help).

Look at it another way....
When the real racing car runs around the track in wet weather he will use the brakes in a different way than when running in the dry.....presume for a moment that it will always be wet...would the brake system be designed differently from the outset?

Quote from cargame.nl :

Oh! I am not saying it's not fun! I enjoyed racing it with Assetto Corsa but not all the time, not every day. It gets boring quickly, it's three times bigger then Kyoto Long (KY3), with KY3 there are already difficulties to get it popular. It's takes too much time to do one lap.

I would say an open mod is sufficient enough but we are a bit far away from that I am afraid; an own track editor.

Nordschleife gets boring quick?
Everyone is different of course...some like to drive around slowly or just turn left...
I can agree that Kyoto long is not a popular track..alongside the longer Aston tracks...personally I never could be bothered to learn them.
I already learnt the Nord...if I could ever drive that track with LFS then I have always said that my first drive will be the UF1...and first race 10 laps/UF1...

Quote from Flotch :

(I already told that I would spent 1k€ for a laser scan Nordschleife

I would place a bet that if LFS had that track then the "1k€" would soon come rolling in...no need to pay it alone...stuff people will pay for eh...

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, ultimate braking force is limited by pedal effort required in real life on high downforce cars with normal (incl. F1) brake set ups.

No, I don't change braking force in LFS. I set it so I can't quite lock wheels in the high downforce cars at top speed, but after that I never change it.

For realism purposes, talk of mouse users is redundant. Cater for them, but mouse driving has no place in regard to "realism".

We can go round in circles...
If I have less traction I use less braking force...
I suggest you try a different braking force with different set ups...

I used the on/off brake example to show a point that you ignored...

I do not believe that any person of power/intelligence made the call to fire at a passenger plane.

I just shake my head when I hear that the aircraft is flying over a known war zone just to save money....

The next obvious question that is coming...
What LFS version are you using?

"Almost sounds like...." careful now, that could be taken as a compliment.

Was it my laziness at the end of the post that you were not happy with...or am I wrong to think that the maximum retardation of a vehicle is ultimately down to traction?

More importantly- what about LFS?
Why would you want to change from what it is now?
You can have someone using keyboard/mouse using on/off brakes set with a low braking force.....you can also have someone with a pedal (that has better modulation) using a higher braking force...you can run the BF1 on SO3 and KY1...if I put a chicane on KY1 would you use the same braking force as you did at SO3?

Last edited by Anthoop, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 16:27.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And, bluntly, this isn't an issue for console cowboys. The energy used in actual racing is completely different to that used honing your track skills in front of a monitor.

Did you just copy/paste the rest?
How can there be a fair comparison between Michael Owen (spelling check) and Colin Jackson...there is a twelve year age difference...never mind that Owen was probably injured at the time of the test.

The fact is that to qualify for this competition a certain level of fitness was required...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes, if you modified the cars to generate enough brake torque then they could lock the wheels. But my original point is that it's silly to calculate that torque in LFS as it's not realistic.

How can it not be realistic if you can do the same thing in real life...that is the part I did not understand.
If I have more traction then I can use more braking force before the wheels will lock...in LFS I can go mild to wild on every car...why would you want to put a lower range...and how would you choose that range?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sort of. If you had a set up that could generate the hundreds of bar needed to lock the wheels with human leg strength, then the drivers would find it very difficult to generate just 15 bar at corner entry - just the weight of their foot would probably be enough. And as they don't want to lock wheels, they don't do that.

Yes.
Heavy load will need big brake...big brake harsh with light load....traction dependent...

Quote from amp88 :

Nope. The rules in F1 are written in such a way that it's practically impossible (as in, impossible in practice) for a driver to lock the brakes at high speed (e.g. 180+ mph) in normal conditions because they simply can't apply enough pedal pressure to overcome the tyre grip at that speed.

I was not taking rules into consideration ...just giving the fact that you can lock the wheel if there is enough braking force.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Whilst you probably could swap master cylinder sizes and caliper piston sizes to make it lock at any speed, the teams don't do that because the drivers would lose the ability to modulate the brakes at low speed.

Are you saying that a (conventional pad/disc) brake will perform best within a certain range?

Thanks, I like to be different.
The F1 car (or any car with "high downforce") can lock the brakes at any speed, it is dependent on traction...eg...slicks in wet weather.
In LFS you can adjust the maximum braking force from low to locking...and you can do the same on real cars too by changing parts...no matter how much downforce it has or how fast it is travelling..

If you would like to chat some more with this weirdo then feel free to pm me...I can be even weirder in private.

Booo..sorry to hear that but you know what to do for next time.

Quote from tristancliffe :

An F1 car, for instance, can't lock up it's brakes at 200mph. It has too much downforce, and the brakes will not overcome that no matter how hard the driver presses.

Driven many F1 cars?

Yes, good luck.

Wow...great stuff Fram. Good luck for those final races, my fingers are crossed.

Quote from GenesisX :

Not thinking of a new solution to encrypt setup files because they are inevitably going to be decrypted by hackers is like saying I'm not going to take care of my health anymore because I am going to inevitably die. (I'm not trying to complain. I respect what Scawen develops and rightfully this is his project. Just putting an analogy out there)

Need a better analogy really...what if taking care of my health meant I could not have fun...

Quote from Slovakia ring :

Who created this s...d program for MP ?! Destroy the work of the other honest people.
Why people do not respect " pls send set" -yes- TNX, -no- OK !!!

I expect if you search the forum you will find many threads about "set stealing"...and maybe even a name of at least one person who made a "set stealing tool"..

It does not matter who makes/made the tool or how it works...the fact is that if someone wants to get a set up then they will.
The new person can neither access a pro set up or use it properly without some effort/help.
The person that has better knowledge of set ups and the game can have any set up...

Why bother fighting it?