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blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Music credits are at the end of the video- I didn't exactly memorize, pause or care more to write what it was - sorry for the epic laziness but you know where to look :P
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Probably evenly mixed between:

Twenty-Ten (As it is Twenty Hundred, Ten. Like Nineteen-Ninety Nine.
Two-thousand Ten (without the 'and' like the poll has and shouldn't be there)
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
No, I used to follow more of this stuff but slowly grew out of it or something. Not saying its not interesting to me still, just not a huge follower of any sort of extreme sports any more.

Also - my comment wasn't about Pastrana either, it was more about jumping distances.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Hah, agreed. Did you see all the jetski's fly over to him like immediately? Like someone was going to jump in water if they couldn't swim. (Though that said I don't think it would be easy to swim very long in that suit!)
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Quote from hazaky :Oh well, there already is a thread about this.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=64307

Yea I started it a little earlier. But anyways mine are still the same;
  • Get a job in the programming / game industry.
  • Pay off my 'small' student loan ($11K)
  • Get some backup savings stored up, since I've spent it all on this years goals.
  • Read at least 24 books. Including at least 6 Fiction, 6 Non-fiction
  • Write a minimum 1 page story, each week; totalling 52 pieces.
  • Try to remember to bump my thread above to see how many people actually tried, or did complete their Goals, Plans or New Years Resolutions for 2010.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
I'm not saying it doesn't take balls to do it, or that there is no chance something can go wrong;

But people need to remember this stuff is proven that it works. The risk is quite minimal, if everyone is doing their jobs correctly, and wind conditions are not severe- which they usually shut these things down when the wind is severe. That said, reread my first statement; it still takes balls, and there is still chances stuff go wrong.

Anyways, I agree the run off area was very short.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Yes; someone may need to correct me since it has been awhile since I've done it but:

The driver waiting will press the little 't' next to the driver he is teamed with before the pitstop happens. The current driver also needs to press the t or do something before / during the pit. Then after/during the pitstop the drivers are swapped.

The first driver will want to be sure to put the car into neutral, otherwise it will stall when he gets out.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
@logittekg25 - For all intent and purposes I am only trying to work on AI; that may require me to make a world where a car can drive, but as said I really don't want to spend my time working with the physics and making a world for the cars.

@w126 - Yes, that was the first way I tried configuring it. I made my program use the arrow keys to move the steering axis; started the steering axis in dead center like my G25 would. Then went into LFS, double checked left and right arrow did nothing, and used them. Watched the axis move. At first turning left/right it would act just as turning the unconfigured wheel. But after I hit each edge of the axis limit the center was now making LFS about 15 degrees or so to the right. I made sure I was inputting the proper center spot according the what I had to work with from PPJoy and I was, I messed around for quite a while, even trying to configure the joystick from the PPJoy side.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
www.simcraft.com

Was the first link on google when I typed: Sim Craft when I checked earlier based on curiosity.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Ppjoy_axis_min
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Probably not a bad idea;

But I thought of a few issues it could cause; Mouse users that use the buttons for things. Click on a screen while trying to navigate, that click hits a car, BOOM- text box in face.

I am not saying there are not reasons this could be fixed if the mouse is bound to other things; just pointing out something I noticed.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Well AndriodXP there has been 'progress' but also a wall on the coding front.

As can be read in my posts above I decided to try using LFS as a test bed for the AI Project. I made my InSim connection which is ready to receive OutGauge and OutSim information if required. I also did the planning, however I can't control a car from my code. I attempted the /press command, but that releases the key stroke.

After that I decided I wasn't going to look further because it was probably for a reason, though you've probably noticed my thread where I watched the AI drive for 5hrs, actually I've done this a lot lately; not only endurance but different cars, tracks; long races, short races; And all sorts of watching. I've learned a few interesting things, have a few interesting theories and am still playing with different tests in LFS; which made me decide to look for some form a virtual thing where my AI can run LFS controllers in some fashion.

I stumbled upon PPJoy, which was mentioned on page one by someone when virtual control was first brought up. I successfully turned the wheel in LFS using my program. However, it doesn't center the wheel properly. I made sure my values were correct, and they are. But dor some reason LFS interprets ALL of the 'virtual' axis to be offcenter, not just the steering. I tried messing with some configs for PPJoy but still couldn't fix it. I am deciding that LFS is not the place to do this under the constraint of proper control, and probably more problems to come.

I did request that /hold [key] and /release [key] were added to the command system in LFS, as well as /setaxis [axis] [pos]

If those get added I may try implementing this in LFS again, until then I will attempt to look into other things; also with the PPJoy it wouldn't be as shareable as you'd think - not the easiest thing to install and use for the general public.

----------------

On the other hand, I was thinking a bit more about driver response. We have already discussed, and I've placed into my plans to give the driver a response time; maximum speed of control and reaction times etc... But I began wondering, what about driver smoothness; error in control. Sure there is error in guessing where the car is on track, but there is also error with control - not only reaction time, but think of going on a perfectly straight section. It's likely a less experienced player is fighting to keep the car smooth and straight, where-as the experienced player is fine. The only problem I see is adding TOO many places of error. Not necessarily too much error, since that can be dialed in later; but too many sources.

I've also figured out that it will be impossible to use a pure random method on finding the distance to a reference point; because this will likely cause the AI to never drive towards the same point. Sure we want random variance with the guesstimating, but it needs to be based on the previous frame(s) in some form or another. Basically something interesting will have to be developed to keep the value realistic compared to previous frames, but also randomly moving according to the Drivers state and actual distance etc. . .
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Its several days late, you obviously didn't read his post several times complaining about his money situation. Oh and by the way - my dick is fine.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
This is not exactly an InSim suggestion; but it is in a way a programmer suggestion;

I would like very little more control over the input using the current command / scripting system or InSim/a connection itself.

basically my command would be:

/hold [key]
/release [key]

or

/setaxis val //where val is 0 to 1, -1 to 1 or even some other means.

-----------------

The request comes from my attempt to use LFS as a platform for the AI project, and with that I believe this will never happen. If there is already a way to do this I have overlooked it - and trust me, I've read the Commands.txt over and over again.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Does the command system have the ability to set the position of an axis?

Like the steering wheel?

I see axis name, steer.
And buttons can be pressed; though I think they are released.
I am ready to run the test of controlling the car but now I can't find a way to do so- which leads me to believe that doing this in LFS will not work; will continue looking but hopefully someone knows.

EDIT: Still have found nothing that works; /press in LFS simulates a key press and release all at the same time which means I can't even make the AI use keyboard.
Last edited by blackbird04217, .
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Yea, there is a special bit that when in reverse on a screw gun will drill into the old screw, and at a certain point it will grip onto it reversing it out of the position. Besides that I don't know many other ways, though I would probably be using some WD40 to loosen it up if I had to do it by hand without that tool. Also cooking spray works just the same (like Pam). Will hopefully reduce the friction making it come out a bit easier for you. Sorry I am out of other suggestions though, good luck.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Just to be clear what type of telemetry info?

"telemetry" just means getting information remotely. So it doesn't itself explain what information should be received.

That said; OutGauge has loads of useful info: though I assume you guys are talking more like TireHeat / conditions and things of that nature? I ask because if it is going to be implemented it needs to be understood.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
I am thinking about using LFS as a starting/testing point for my AI - if and only if I can be sure I can access everything I need.

If anyone wants to help I would be very grateful as it will take some time to get this working. Programming effort is not the only thing I need, although I would love to just have the plug'n'play part done for me.

This inspiration came while watching the 5hr AI Endurance Race last night, and I will be doing more of those; I want to add my own AI player in the mix and see if I can race Scawens AI.

However, step by step:
- Make sure I have all the information needed.
- Get the information working and tested.
- Get the AI to drive the car around a track with normal 'driving line'.
- Add the reference points and the AI can only judge where the driving line is based on these points.
- Add a single AI in a head-to-head style race.
- Add multiple AI once things are going well.

------------------
So the first step is to make sure LFS can handle all the information needed. For that I need to know all the information that I actually do need, vs information that the AI Driver should not be using. Then I need to detect the best way to extract this information from LFS using InSim or other means. A track will need to be picked for the testing grounds;

The new algorithm;
Well, it has been said over and over again that I didn't want to tell the AI where to go and what to do. IE; don't have a line to follow from point to point. After really thinking about this, the AI needs that line. Humans get it from intuition or feeling - they just know. The AI could calculate the best possible line using some algorithm knowing the left and right edges of the track; but to eliminate that complication for now I have decided to give in and give the AI the driving line. After putting thought into it I have decided that this is not cheating for the AI IF the AI does not have GPS positioning on these driving points.

Basically, if the AI knew their exact world position and the exact world position of their DriveTo point they will behave exactly as LFS AI does at this time. Which in my mind is cheating. The first stage will be to get the AI to work using this cheating method, but then the reference points will be added, and the only thing the AI can do after that is know that the DriveTo point is to the left of Cone A by X distance. And they will scan for Cone A, which will give them an estimation based on some of the things discussed in this thread. Then the AI will 'triangulate' or know approximately where they should DriveTo, but that point will change slightly each lap based on random variance and other things that effect the Drivers judgement.

Some of the more obvious things that this will need from LFS:

Controller I/O
- Get and Set Steering Position; an axis control is required.
- Get and Set Throttle, Brake and Clutch Position; axis control req.
- Get and Set Gear Position (for H-shift cars)
- Get and Set Up Shift Button (for sequential)
- Get and Set Down Shift Button (for sequential)
- Ignition control.
- Pit request controls; ability to change pit schedule.
- Pit Speed Limiter.
- Possibly need the handbrake? To apply when parking.
Car Information
- Detection of the accurate position of the car.
- Detection of the accurate velocity of the car.
- Detection of the accurate direction of the car.
- Detection of tire traction at each tire.
- Current Fuel Level
Track Information
- The left edge of the track all the way around.
- The right edge of the track all the way around.
- The optimum driving line - perhaps passing lines?
- The left edge of the pitlane from entrance to exit.
- The right edge of the pitlane from entrance to exit.
- The driving line of pitlane;
- The start of pit speed limit.
- The end of pit speed limit.

*Quite possibly a few things that I can't think of at this moment.

---------------------
I already know there are a few things I can not get from LFS for my algorithm; like whether the AI driver can see another driver behind them in the mirror. But I don't even have confidence that that would matter; the attempt itself would be quite a fun challenge.

I believe all the track information can come from making a layout and setting yellow cones on the left track edge, red cones on the right track edge. blue and green cones for pit lane. And so on... This assumes that the LYT format allows different IDs per object / or at least so that I can tell the difference and where the exact position is. Need to look into that a little more; but I believe that will be sufficient for Reference Points and Track Lines. From what I've read it should be possible using the Index of each object, this however brings up the problem of the driving line possibly not being in the order as placed; which would be a requirement to know which point to drive to.

This is not a statement to say I have started, far from it. But it is a statement saying that I may actually start this if I find the motivation to do so - this would likely be something I would share. I don't know about open source sharing as its likely I use the AI code on other projects in the future.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
@Widowmaker - it started out as some research, but yes it was entertaining once I started rooting for a particular AI, and more so as the pit strategy almost placed him second. . . (Third by 50ft, it was a close race out of pitlane).

EDIT: Also meant to say the AI in LFS do not learn anymore, this was evident in the 5hr race as the skid marks stayed in the same place and the AI did the same exact thing. The AI in LFS use to have learning, but not anymore.

And yes, this is also amusing as I have no true access to multiplayer racing. Satellite internet sucks, but apparently its the only option for my location besides dial-up. And whereas I am sure dialup would be better for racing online, I am also sure it would suck for checking my mail. Also - I don't pay the bill so I can't complain too much.
Last edited by blackbird04217, .
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Don't tempt me - hah...

No but that was the results of the 5hr race.

Oddly the AI Drivers behave just like most of the LFS users on a server after a race: Crash into each other and stopping on the road. . .
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Not that anyone cares much about someone silly little AI watching:

But the FXO did pit again, not quite at the 10 min remaining mark where I expected; nor with the requests I expected. They took on 100% fuel, with only 60 laps they could have used only 60%. And of course tires. The XRT I was rooting for was about 50 feet short when the FXO got back on track ahead of him - talk about excitement. The XRT that was in the lead is still in the lead, by 5 seconds now over the guy I'm rooting for.

It seems the AI is a little wonky at pitting, I had to spectate a few more cars due to them getting stuck in the garage and strange things. It looks like the final place is going to be third, which isn't too bad of a position from starting 8th. Though this race is lacking the passes. . . Everyone follows each other in a great line, very uniformly. I expect that nothing major will change for the remaining 40 minutes, so this can be assumed the final positions unless I come back
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
I've decided I am not going to risk the outcome because:

The AI I am rooting for is second in an XRT. Another XRT leads by 4 seconds. But they need to pit in 50 laps or so. In third is an FXO, by my calculations should need to pit somewhere like 10 min before the race - my rounding could be flawing the calculation but I believe if anything its helping it... The original plan for the FXO was 2 stints, 1 stop 100% fuel. So if he has to pit it will get really interesting right near the end. If he doesn't pit, he should easily be victorious over the XRTs when they go in for their stop in a little less than an hour.

1hr 15 min remain
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
If my calculations are correct the leading FXO will need to pit at about 10 minutes before the end of the race anyways. . . So much for only 2 stints; although maybe my math was wrong; if the FXO doesn't need another pit it should be the winner even after starting behind all the XRTs. Maybe that is the reason the pit strategy was made that way?

I can't believe how entertaining this actually is - the only annoying thing is the cars are robots. Which goes back to my AI thing, but these guys hit the exact same mark each lap perfectly.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Quote from logitekg25 :make it longer midrace

if they do calculate at the begginning then i guerantee it wont work. they know how they are going to drive for the most part because they are computers, and that allows them to calculate in the begginning. so i do not think it will work

Well I had assumed after 5 hrs I be bored, but I've found all sorts of neat things to watch while I work on other things that aren't as CPU intensive, so after learning that it would be nice to watch the race go on I thought I would ask here to see if anyone knew that it would be ok to increase it before I actually did.

I can't guarantee that it will work and I have big doubts that it could work, but there is still question there - and 2hrs 50min 30seconds to go.
blackbird04217
S3 licensed
Yea that is exactly what I am wondering. It might be possible to run a test like this:

Get two AI in FXO and two in XRT and run them 5 laps around a track with forced pit. Before they make that pitstop change the laps to 10. and it will be evident what happens; problem is LFS is consuming my system and I know starting another copy of LFS will ruin the AI timing based on FPS drops. (They seem to hate it as much as us players). FXOs are pitting now.


EDIT- POST: 1500
not the real reason I edited, but I did notice it just the same

FXO's were way better at their pitstop... Though 1 Ai decided to try pushing another before the pit was over, it seems one of them did get stuck though and therefor another DNF. (Race started with 10 XRT and 10 FXO. Down to 8 vs 9 at the current time.
Last edited by blackbird04217, .
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG