Are you serious? of course there is. Why do you think Scawen doesn't release small incremental updates to the Physics but instead keeps all tweaks and updates back for major releases ?
Apart from the multitude of users who enjoy hotlapping and competing on the many LFSWorld charts, there is the issue of invalidating all the available replays and setups - these are a valuable resource for anyone learning an unfamiliar car/track combo.
Hmm, I'm not sure about some of your implications.
While it's true that Centre of Gravity, Trackwidth and Tiresizes have a significant effect on cornering speeds, you seem to be suggesting that they have a fundemental effect while mass is only of secondary importance - this seems to me to be nonsense. Mass is equally if not more important in cornering speeds.
You also seems to be implying that Engine construction is the main factor in accelleration - this is also nonsense - mass is also equally important here (and in decelleration).
It seems to me that the factor in your list that effects more aspects of the cars performance than any other without drastically altering the cars handling characteristics (which would be bad IMO) that factor is mass (weight) !!
Mass is such a fundamental component of all physics calculations - it effects everything. The mass of the car has a direct influence on accelleration, decelleration, cornering speeds, top speeds, tyre wear & fuel usage.
The fact that Mass effects pretty much everything means that we don't need to make any major changes in order to even up the cars - add a little mass and they would lose just a little of each of accelleration, braking distance, cornering speed, tyres, fuel, top speed. This means that a cars race times can be reduced without it's overall character being altered. Add to this the fact that it should be possible to implement mass changes via a 'ballast' feature that should not require LFSWorld to be reset, allows control by race and server admins and gives us yet another real world racing feature and we have a win win win situation
like I said - it's a no brainer.
Can you think of any other option that is in real life racing, AND will not require all hotlaps to be reset ?
Why is ballast not a good option? I can't think of any good reason. There seem to be three options for evening out the cars lap-times: change the weight, change the power, change the contact patch. I cannot see any reason why any one of these is better or worse than the others except that ballast is used more often in real racing, and would be the least disruptive option for the development process.
Ballast seems to be the best option IMO.
If Ballast is introduced as a server-side option, it can work for leagues and pick-up races. The server admin could just specify how much ballast for each car.
This way, the devs don't have to worry about changing the cars and messing up all the hotlaps on LFS World. Leagues can implement BTCC style weight penalties for race winners if they want to(assuming admin can add ballast to individual drivers). Any server admin can use ballast to even out the cars they chose for the track they chose (or make them less even if they so wish). LFS gets yet another feature used in real racing series.
Seems like a no-brainer.
There are numerous threads in the improvement suggestions section asking for this feature - I really hope Scawen implements this feature sooner rather than later
If Ballast is introduced as a server-side option, it can work for leagues and pick-up races. The server admin could just specify how much ballast for each car.
This way, the devs don't have to worry about changing the cars and messing up all the hotlaps on LFS World. Leagues can implement BTCC style weight penalties for race winners if they want to(assuming admin can add ballast to individual drivers). Any server admin can use ballast to even out the cars they chose for the track they chose (or make them less even if they so wish). LFS gets yet another feature used in real racing series.
Seems like a no-brainer.
There are numerous threads in the improvement suggestions section asking for this feature - I really hope Scawen implements this feature sooner rather than later
WRONG: Shaun was returning to the track, he still had not regained race speed or racing line before the collision.
WRONG: Shaun made an obvious attempt to block Olddog, and in doing so crashed into him
CORRECT Shaun's return WAS a dangerous one, but it DID create a mess
WRONG: there was not a safe gap
WRONG: it was an off-track excursion caused by a previous aggressive and poorly executed overtaking manouver.
If Shaun was fully aware of the situation (which i doubt), then he is even more guilty. From what was seen on replay he was aware of the fact that he had messed up, and wanted to get back on track ASAP with no regard for the 'safety' of any of the other racers.
As far as Shaun taking a safe inside line - are you even watching the same replay as everyone else ? Are you on powerful medication that makes you hallucinate ? - Shaun drove in a straight line, without turning (apart from one very slight correction), braking or releasing the throttle from when he was on the grass until after his collision. He certainly did not take an 'inside line'
Olddog made the best attempt at a pass he could of in the situation - he had every right to whatever line he wanted through that corner, and unfortunately for him and through no fault of his own, he was taken out by Shaun.
This is the last thing I will say on this topic - unless you can find some racers (who's opinion i respect) that agree with you, in which case i will rejoin the discussion - until then, adios my deluded fiend
Last edited by col, .
Either you believe that going offtrack then re-joining without due care is perfectly good driving - or you are a troll.
because everything you describe happens after Shaun re-joined recklessly, and is part of him re-joining. There is no break, or pause between Shaun re-joining and the accident in question - they are the SAME INCIDENT !
so which is it?
do you you disagree with my (and Beckys and most other drivers - sim and real life ) belief that re-joining recklessly is dangerous driving and the perpetrator is the guilty party in any resulting accident ?
OR
are you a TROLL ?
This rule only counts when both drivers are on track and racing before they reach a corner.
If driver A is off-track, and driver B is on-track and racing, driver B can take ANY line he wants - if driver A joins the track without due care and is immediately involved in an accident/incident with driver B, then driver A is at fault. (assuming driver B hasn't lost control and spun into driver A, or some other unusual exception)
The extra work in administrating "handing some of the jobs to" other people IS the main disadvantage of a big dev team - that doesn't get better because they are volunteers, it gets worse.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt (that you're not a troll) I'm sorry chp101 - in my last post I was "extracting teh urine"
Your writing style is so full of grammatical errors that is is difficult to understand what you mean in any detail - other that you believe that Olddog was in the wrong.
I chose sarcasm rather than a complete explanation of why I and many others disagree with you because I felt you prolly wouldn't understand anyway
sorry again, it was a cheap shot
for what its worth, and in an attemt to explain what has already been explained numerous times in this thread:
If a driver makes an error or is involved in an incident that leaves them off the track, their number one priority is to re-join safely, without affecting any of the racers who are on-track! Just as though they were leaving pitlane.
It doesn't matter If OldDog braked, or swerved or kept his line or accellerated, or farted - it is irrelevant. It also doesn't matter if Shaun is worried about losing a place, damaging his car, winning the race, or the state of European economics - these are also all equally equally irrelevant - in other words they do not matter !
Shaun was in the wrong because he rejoined the track in a way that meant he forced Olddog to take evasive action (get out of his way). That was a bad thing to do - not a good thing !
Why do you make the assumption that bringing in a bunch of enthusiastic volunteers (however talented) would speed up the development process ?
IMO it would do exactly the opposite !
The more people are in a team, the larger percentage of each persons time has to be devoted to communicating with, synchronising with and arguing with the rest of the team. As a team grows, the complexity of managing the project tends to grow exponentially. Who would be organizing this mess ? Scawen Eric and Victor thats who - so instead of devoting most of their time to developing their fine product, they would have to do a huge bunch of extra admin and quality control not to mention political and diplomatic work as their minions start to bicker about why X got to do this while Y only gets to do that ?
illepall
What happens when a volunteer misses a deadline, and the whole community starts to wibble and explode ? Would you put your career/future/livelyhood on the line and trust some peeps you don't know and who you're not even paying to do the work?
No thanks
Part of the reason that LFS is SOOOO good is because of the development process that Scavier have used - do you really want to change that?
I don't, I think they are doing a fine job the way things are
IMO it would do exactly the opposite !
The more people are in a team, the larger percentage of each persons time has to be devoted to communicating with, synchronising with and arguing with the rest of the team. As a team grows, the complexity of managing the project tends to grow exponentially. Who would be organizing this mess ? Scawen Eric and Victor thats who - so instead of devoting most of their time to developing their fine product, they would have to do a huge bunch of extra admin and quality control not to mention political and diplomatic work as their minions start to bicker about why X got to do this while Y only gets to do that ?
illepallWhat happens when a volunteer misses a deadline, and the whole community starts to wibble and explode ? Would you put your career/future/livelyhood on the line and trust some peeps you don't know and who you're not even paying to do the work?
No thanks
Part of the reason that LFS is SOOOO good is because of the development process that Scavier have used - do you really want to change that?
I don't, I think they are doing a fine job the way things are
So, going by your rules:
When one is joining the track teh other drivers should prolly get right out of teh way coz if a crash is happens its their fault (prolly) right ?
DOH
hehe, stirred up a hornets nest
Seems like it was a discussion that we needed to have, and will probably have again. You just provided the catalyst
For me 're-joining recklessly after some off-roading' is up there with 'exiting pit lane without due care', and 'lapped backmarkers racing leaders'!
Seems that opinion is somewhat polarised on this one though.
col
Download and watch some of the hotlap replays from lfsworld
Note: multiplayer replays lie ! don't copy lines or braking points from other drivers in multiplayer mode as the slight lag thats always present makes all of them inaccurate !
Make sure the replay uses the same input controller as you - no point in watching a wheel replay if you drive with mouse - and if you use wheel, make sure that you have same pedal config - e.g. combined or seperate axis can make a big difference to driving style.
Watch the replays from different viewpoints - watch from wheels view and look at the 'mouse indicator' to see how much they are turning the wheels. Watch from the view you race in (cockpit is best IMO) to get a good feel - if you drive on the right find replays that drive on the right and vice versa. watch form chase view to see how much curb they take at apex.
Switch on pedals input to see not only when brake and gas are applied, but how heavily and how slowly they are pressed and released.
Check what speed they are going at at marker points - e.g. apex, exit, and any good marker you can find - start/finish line, a change in the road texture, a marshal in the crowd etc - ideally shortly after corner exit as exit speed is VERY important to good laps. This will give you targets to aim for, and is a better indicator than split times - because it tells you which corners you are bad/good at, not just which track sector.
e.g. if on Blackwood you are getting the same speed in back straight marker (say.. where the blue+white left curb finishes after exit of chicane ) as world record lap , but your 1st split is much lower, then you know that your chicane is good, but you are slow in either t1, or final turn of previous lap - so next few laps you check speeds after final turn exit - this way you can narrow things down and work out what to concentrate on
Go on a less busy server, and after settling in and having a few races, see if any of the faster racers are willing to spectate you and give you some tips - even with the inaccuracy of multiplayer, they can help you to spot obvious areas for improvement
The guy that said no tyre squeal is best is wrong - loud tyre squeal is bad, but a little quiet squeal means you are maximising the grip potential of the tyres !
keep steering and pedal inputs to the minimum for fast times
Most important of all: Be cool ! Be clean ! Show respect ! and HAVE FUN
Note: multiplayer replays lie ! don't copy lines or braking points from other drivers in multiplayer mode as the slight lag thats always present makes all of them inaccurate !
Make sure the replay uses the same input controller as you - no point in watching a wheel replay if you drive with mouse
- and if you use wheel, make sure that you have same pedal config - e.g. combined or seperate axis can make a big difference to driving style.Watch the replays from different viewpoints - watch from wheels view and look at the 'mouse indicator' to see how much they are turning the wheels. Watch from the view you race in (cockpit is best IMO) to get a good feel - if you drive on the right find replays that drive on the right and vice versa. watch form chase view to see how much curb they take at apex.
Switch on pedals input to see not only when brake and gas are applied, but how heavily and how slowly they are pressed and released.
Check what speed they are going at at marker points - e.g. apex, exit, and any good marker you can find - start/finish line, a change in the road texture, a marshal in the crowd etc - ideally shortly after corner exit as exit speed is VERY important to good laps. This will give you targets to aim for, and is a better indicator than split times - because it tells you which corners you are bad/good at, not just which track sector.
e.g. if on Blackwood you are getting the same speed in back straight marker (say.. where the blue+white left curb finishes after exit of chicane ) as world record lap , but your 1st split is much lower, then you know that your chicane is good, but you are slow in either t1, or final turn of previous lap - so next few laps you check speeds after final turn exit - this way you can narrow things down and work out what to concentrate on
Go on a less busy server, and after settling in and having a few races, see if any of the faster racers are willing to spectate you and give you some tips - even with the inaccuracy of multiplayer, they can help you to spot obvious areas for improvement
The guy that said no tyre squeal is best is wrong - loud tyre squeal is bad, but a little quiet squeal means you are maximising the grip potential of the tyres !
keep steering and pedal inputs to the minimum for fast times
Most important of all: Be cool ! Be clean ! Show respect ! and HAVE FUN
you can also use GIMP for windows which you don't need to pay $$ for, and seems to be pretty stable these days
I guess thats with ignorant demo racer rules ?
heh, oversteer when releasing the brake is very useful, but you have to learn how
. If brake too late and too heavy, or you're not smooth coming off the pedal, and turning the car, you can lose the tail - especially if you are driving a 'fast' setup.First try altering your driving - brake a little earlier, and stightly less heavily, start releasing the brake earlier, but much slower - ideally you will only have completely released the brake just as you want to start increasing the gas
another thing is in a corner that you find too twitchy, try keeping a little throttle through the turn (just a touch, to keep the car balanced).
If you're still having problems, you can reduce the trailbrake oversteer effect with dampers: Front rebound +, Rear bump -
(one click each, and test - this will also add corner exit oversteer, so be careful)
(Make sure you're not locking a rear - try brake balance more forward)
Or make the whole car more understeery with sway bars and/or shock adjustments (will slow you down)
nonsense. e-bay bought PayPal when PayPal was already an established and highly successful business.
Paypal has employed some highly dubious business tactics - particularly targetting small business, many who have had their accounts 'frozen' without reasonable explanation. Any Funds remaining in those accounts become instantly locked... I was lucky, when they froze mine it had exactly £0.00 in it.
here's some juice from wikipedia - it doesn't take much googling to find loads more
Its possible that Olddog could have prevented the incident. However, that has no bearing whatsoever on this discussion - the issue here is who caused the incident.
But this is a league race, and Olddog has to assume that someone who has just gone way off track will wait until it is safe to rejoin - they must yeild (unless they has lost control of his car which Shaun obviously has not !)
hes gone from last to third, then made a huge error - then in a reckless attempt to salvage his own race he's ruined someone elses.
It was not an optimistic pass - is was a normal move, possibly Olddog should have been more agressive, held his line and taken Shaun out, rather than trying to avoid the collision, getting his own car light, and paying the price for Shauns bad driving. In any case most drivers in Olddog position would have been very surprised when Shaun just keeps heading flat out towards them
.If you watch from shauns view, with pedals on, you can see that shaun just straight lines it through the grass - keeping on the throttle as much as possible - when he rejoins the track, instead of keeping to the inside, he mashes the gas and heads straight for the racing line which at that point is not available to him as the guy rejoining the track. First sign of him hitting the brake is after he's taken old dog out, in an attempt to regain control of his own car.
I am very surprised !
did you look from multiple angles, both cars blimp, chase etc ?
yep hehe - Shaun obviously knows he was in the wrong - says sorry at the incident, then later starts getting right into defensive mode and lying - like by the end of the race he's already begun to convince himself it wasn't his fault
illepalli'm writing this before reading any of the other responses - to keep objectivity
IMO Shaun is clearly at fault. He made an error, and went off track. He should have waited until the track was clear before re-joining. In re-joining before the track was clear, he forced Olddog to make an evasive manouver, then tapped his rear end taking him out, double whammy of guilt !
col
IMO Shaun is clearly at fault. He made an error, and went off track. He should have waited until the track was clear before re-joining. In re-joining before the track was clear, he forced Olddog to make an evasive manouver, then tapped his rear end taking him out, double whammy of guilt !
col
damn
next you're going to tell us the real Santa Clause doesn't have a big white beard ?
hehe after getting the unsprung mass info (which I double checked in the file with a hex editor), I then went through all the calculations, and hacked the existing analyser to see graphs of the springs and dampers.
I used this along with the advice in the setup manual to discover that the optimum damper settings are identical to the ones i have already arrived at through driving and tweaking using feel and guesswork. LOL
Not sure if thats a waste of time or a good sign
anyhow thanks to Axus, Colcob and Bob Smith
I used this along with the advice in the setup manual to discover that the optimum damper settings are identical to the ones i have already arrived at through driving and tweaking using feel and guesswork. LOL
Not sure if thats a waste of time or a good sign
anyhow thanks to Axus, Colcob and Bob Smith
thanks - at last - thats what i wanted to know 
where did this value originate ? please, colcob are you there?, anyone ?
what about other cars ?
btw, thanks axus
What is the unsprung mass of RAC?
I have been reading up on calculating spring frequencies, checking out Bob Smith and Colcobs stuff etc.... anyhow, one of the required variables is the unspring mass of the car.
This info is available for the older cars by looking inside some of the setup calculating spreadsheets out there but where can I find details for the Raceabout ?
(I've done some searching through the available docs and the forum archives and not been able to find this info. Apologies if it's there and I've missed it.)
cheers
Col
This info is available for the older cars by looking inside some of the setup calculating spreadsheets out there but where can I find details for the Raceabout ?
(I've done some searching through the available docs and the forum archives and not been able to find this info. Apologies if it's there and I've missed it.)
cheers
Col
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG