Quote from Vain :

Some more sound analysis. This time taken under different conditions:
Car flipped to the roof, no wind, 7000 rpm. But I forgot to disengage the gear. The results are obvious enough anyway. I wrote the numbers of the firing cylinders and the names of the car.
Like a sine-wave, I told you. Interesting how especially the XRT felt dead boring to listen to. This is the reason why.

Vain

Not remotely like a sine wave - there is plenty of spectral content in there.
It would be interesing to see results of your comparisons after putting the wave files through a spectrum analyser - that would give a much more revealing picture of the frequency content.

Try your two car sound clips (and a sine wave just for fun :razz...

Hmmm - I don't like the new sound update... and I do...

Don't:
The final end result doesn't make me feel as good when driving as the U30 sounds.

Do:
The sound seems more fluid - it seems more like a real organic sound, just not like the sound a car makes .
Here's a guitar analogy...
It's like a nylon strung acoustic when it should be a Strat through a cranked Marshall stack. The old sound was like a synth though a cranked Peavey Bandit... At least now it sounds like a guitar.

Something I've been wondering for a long time (years) is if Scawen could implement some sort of Digital waveguide for the individual cylinder sounds (or for the engine as a whole), and for the exhaust. This would soak up some cpu for sure, but wouldn't need to be of the same quality level as for alias free synthesisers and the like...
I think this (possibly along with some psychoacoustic distortion - to fool the brain into thinking the sound is louder - think aural exiters as used in TV advertising) could make a huge difference to the percieved quality of the sound.
Scawen, have you been here before ?
Would it be possible to use simplified or low-fi waveguides without using way to much CPU? maybe a few for the car 'in focus' and 1 per car for other cars within earshot ?

Col

Quote from Dajmin :

Really nice idea. Love the site.

Problem is, some of the names ranked high are really unimaginiative. "Esses1" and "Esses2", "Pit Corner", "U-Turn" - please

On the other hand, some of them are really good. Although I notice that for the final U on SO Sprint 1, nobody has suggested the Jaknife Sorry Jack, nobody will ever let you live it down!

Yeah? except some of those - like esses(1) and esses(2) have been used since early demo days. If a corner already has an established name, you aren't going to change that with a vote and an announcement...
Like Blackwood T1, there's only one name for that turn and it is 'T1', because is always was - there was a time when that was the only LFS track... folks aren't going to suddenly start saying "you rammed me in Paramount... NOOB".. its always going to be 'T1'.

Problem is that too many folks don't know their history
....
Another thing I noticed, assuming it is the intention, Barnardos has 2 r's, So it would be kinda odd to call a turn Barnados - sounds like an island somewhere or something...

Is there also a charity called Barnados ?

(wouldn't surprise me, I remember in the UK during the general election for one seat, (can't remember where) the conservatives put in 2 candidates - one 'Conservative' and one 'literal democrat' - split the liberal democrat vote and the Conservative candidate won the seat.... because most folks don't read things properly - just happily give their vote or old clothes erroniously)

Col

Nice work - if we have to decide on names artificially, then this is as good a way as any...

One thing I've noticed is that some of the folks suggesting names are obviously not thinking about how these names will sound in usage.

The only point in having names for corners is so that its easier to discuss them... unfortunately too many suggestions are long multiword phrases...
think how your suggested name would sound in some possible sentences such as:

I lost the rear coming out of XXXX
wtf, you took me out just before the XXXX apex
If I get a good second sector, I always lose it in XXXX
XXXX gets me every time
you're losing time in XXXX and XXXX... try braking earlier for XXXX and dont mash the throttle so soon at the XXXX exit.

etc. etc.

Col

Hehe - talk about fishing for compliments.... lol

Oh NOOOOOO the great KeMoT is leaving, what am I gonna do now...

anyhow, see you when the next physics update is released

Either: the guy is too thick to be able to cope with reason, logic and evidence, and prefers to believe marketing..... And anyway, GT4 has loads of REAL CARS and loads of REAL TRACKS, so of course it is more realistic...
SimpleIdiotLogic® says that real tracks + real cars = realistic handling
and conversely that 'fake' cars and 'fake' tracks = 'fake' handling

Or: he has a low opinion of you and cannot concieve that something you like (but he doesn't) could possibly be better than something he likes (but you don't) in any way.

Or: he knows that LFS is more realistic, but he prefers the huge licenced content and more accessible (read: less skill required) gameplay of GT4. However, he knows that it is 'cool' to be more 'realistic', and he also knows that you are more attached emotionally to LFS that he is to GT4. So rather than admit the mildly embarassing truth, he has fun by winding you up all the time, pretending to believe that GT4 is more real than LFS... are you letting him get to you ?

so which is it? (should really be a poll hehe)

Quote from Ebolamonkey :

drifting can help you see a good racing line for grip.

yeah, as you drift wide round the turn, the extreme angle you are at lets you watch the 'grippers' steam past on the inside and see the lines they take

What I go for is a server with at least 3 or 4 people on it with a low ping and a car/track combo I'm competitive at.

I havn't raced much for quite a while. I find that each time more content was added, it became more difficult to find enjoyable races... just finding races with enough folks at about the same skill level can be tricky when there are so many combos.

Its a shame that people don't use the chat...
years ago when I played GPL there was an app called winVROC... everyone congregated there in the chat area and there was a list of servers showing which ones were mid race, and which ones were running qualifying for next race... with this setup, it was easier to get folks together for races.

I guess in LFS its fine if you are in a 'team' you know roughly when other members will be around, and what servers to check on, but for everyone else, it just makes it even harder to get good 'casual' racing enjoyment.

Quote from priestizzle :

You guys are forgetting where drifting started. On that like, Japanese mountain, street racing. They used it to cut the corners of the mountain without slowing down to a near stop. They raced, didnt count points and didnt try to ONLY overtake by drifitng. Thats racing in every sense of the word. I think someone will eventually come up with a concept for drift racing. For instance, on turn x x and x you MUST drift (Pass a certain angle relavant to the apex or something to be considered a drift) No extra points are awarded for a better drift then the other. But the point of the RACE is to finish first.

If one doesnt drift a turn you MUST drift maybe time deductions could be in order or something along those lines. Anyway, my two cents

You don't need a 'concept' or special rules. If you want 'drift racing', you have to devise race tracks or courses where the fastest way around the corners is to drift - so those who don't drift or drift badly will not have a chance of winning.... You'll probably want to have a fairly loose surface.... and maybe time the cars rather than have them all start together - to avoid the obvious T1 problems when everyone gets sideways together... Maybe you could use existing roads and tracks for this... snow/ice might be good as well... amazing no-ones already done this really

Quote from luftrofl :

This is a rather lame discussion. Nobody's convincing anybody else of their point and the argument is becoming more and more polarized.

I disagree (wellwhaddayaknow)

It is lame, but not because the arguement is polarised - it isn't.
polarised would be:
the drifters saying "drifting is great and requires great skill"
the racers saying "drifting is pants and is easy but pointless"

in reality,
The majority of drifters (who are posting) are saying:
"Why do you hate drifting? drifing is great, you just don't understand it" (some are saying drifting makes you faster?!)
The vast majority of non-drifters are saying roughly:
"I have nothing against drifting - I agree that it requires skill, but I don't want to do it as an end in itself - I'm here to race. What I don't like is the attitude of many (not all) 'drifters'."
you see, there is no argument. other than
A Why do you hate it?
B We don't
A But why do you hate it?, its so unfair
B But We don't hate it - really we don't
A I still don't understand why you hate it - you must be stupid...
B We don't hate it, and don't call us stupid...
etc.

yep - it's lame because only one half is arguing - the drifters.... and they are argueing against their false perception of what the non-drifters think...
The truth is that MOST FOLKS WHO DON'T DRIFT DO NOT HATE DRIFTING

If there is a problem its with the part of the drifting commumity that we are most likely to come into contact with - the irresponsible ones who drift in race servers, and love to get into pointless arguements based on false perceptions rather than listening to what people are really saying...

enough for now

Last edited by col, Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:44. Reason : to clarify a point

Quote from Trogdor :

Tell her you will do the housework and cook dinner for a week.

Do the houswork for a week, then ask her !

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I don't snowboard, I don't skate, I don't wakeboard, I don't base jump, I don't do parkour. I think of drifting as being like those activities - things boys do to win the admiration of other boys.

Yeah, boys trying to convince everyone they're not geeks and nerds by getting all geeky and nerdy about fringe 'sports'

btw, you forgot street luge - Byker Sherlock RULEZ

Quote from Slidaaaa :

Scrw you people...
Can Drift be considered a Motorsport? YES

I agree

Quote :

Drift does NOT replaces grip (race) in any sense, and vice versa.

I agree

Quote :

Drift is a Race Technique? Depends, theres two type of Drift, one of them is,other is not.

I agree (assuming your distinction is between 4 wheel drift ( like in gpl ) and 'artistic drifting' style drift.
If you mean 'artistic drifting' and 'drift racing' then I LOL at you)

Quote :

The main diferences between the Drift that happens on the Racing and the one that is practiced as Sport are:

On the Drift as Sport, the Drift must start as early as possible before the corner, it usualy begins allready on the straightway,wich on the 'Race Drift' it rarely happens and usualy only happens on situations of very low or allmost no grip or in Rally(or in very very tight corners and only useful whit understeery cars other than proper race setup). The angle, wich on the 'race Drift' is used only the necessary to compensate the loss of grip or excess of speed (helping to brake the car) on the momentum the be able to tackle the corner the more direct and fastest way possible, wich on the 'Sporty Drift' the angle tends to be the highest possible for as long as possible.

In normal racing you drift when it is the quickest, or most efficient way through part of the track, or because you are doing an in fast out slow overtake/block manouver a la Senna in that AMAZING clip.
In drifting you drift because its the rules.

Quote :

Personaly i consider the art of Drift not just a technique that helps a little the capacity of controling a car out of its traction limits, but overall as way of self-express since its part of my style of driving, i feel naturaly very confortable and on syntony whit my car while drifting, i dont do it for showoff or wathever, i do it because it feels good, love to corner whit full throtle and enter it very fast and use the angle to brake(casualy, i dont drift while racing duh)

Good for you

Quote :

But i think most of other people see it as just an senseless controled slide, wich only takes to loss of time in Racing and they dont see any reason or fun on practicing it as Sport.

why do you think that, from what I've read, most folks - me included - think it's a difficult skill and when perfected can be entertaining to watch.

Quote :

What i mean is,It will depend a lot of the person's point of view. And if you dont like it, respect it.

You don't get respect by demanding it, you get respect be earning it.

Last edited by col, Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:04. Reason : to clarify a point

'Drift racing' makes me think of race walking where 'athletes' (who are not good enough to compete in a running race) do a 'race' that has extra restrictions imposed upon it that depend on close monitoring of every competitor.... (and they wiggle their asses). Has anyone here seen race walking without thinking 'why?'

Drifting as a spectacle of skill and artistry, I can understand, a bit like rythmic gymnastics or synchronised swimming. Just don't pretend that it's racing.

Hey, I just broke the 60m world record for hopping backwards with one eye closed while shouting 'spank me sideways I'm a drifter' at an angle of at least 45º - I pwned you all.

Quote from z3r0c00l :

..
Generalizations save time ONLY when talking to stupid people.

well, I guess Generalizations are an ideal choice when talking to you z3e0c00l.

Anyone with such a ****ing stupid and downright dangerous statement as this in their sig doesn't deserve anything else:

Quote :

If you think I'm too close behind you on a UK road it is because I'm lining up for an overtake, and I'm not too close because at the speed we're both doing, that distance is my reaction/action time, and my brakes and tyres are better than yours, and I can use them to their full potential.

what a load of Bull Shit. I only hope it's you that dies, not the poor innocent folks that you crash into.

Col

Last edited by col, Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:51. Reason : To apologise for posting OT in this thread - just felt it had to be said

Quote from knightjade :

i would never bump any becuse its just not right even if he is slower.

any way i had some one last night when i was racing he was in my slipstream on the big BL1 straight but he keeped bumping in to the back of me and would not overtake i was getting anoyed and when we just about to go in to the corner at the end of the straight i go the turn and it knocks me of the track as well as him coming off to and then blames me for it as it was my fault but i cant see how it was me.

Thats called bump drafting, and is a legitimate technique, helps both drivers to faster times, and is a good way to catch a runaway leader, however there are enough LFS drivers who kick up a stink about it that it's probably best avoided except with friends..... And then of course there are accusations of cheating if you do it with team mates... can't win...
The big problem with bump drafting is that if the guy behind gets it wrong it takes them both out, and there are too many eager but unskilled drivers out there... I used to bump draft all the time on the blackwood back straight, and had very few 'incidents', then the anti bump drafting lobby appeared and spoiled my fun illepall

Quote from frokki :

..
BTW this is one example of ""forcing"" someone to grass without being in fault. You can ignore the texts, the public (some stcc drivers and clerks) already kinda voted that the blue car wasn't in fault of white's crash.

_Looks_ to me like a clear case of the white car being run into the barrier by the blue car. Obviously approaching the turn where the incident happened, the white car has more than 50% overlap and is on the inside - so the blue car should yield the apex, but doesn't. Looking closely you can see that both cars are pointing at the apex, suggesting that the blue car could take a wider line if it wanted. I am surprised that any 'officials' would see this as a 50/50 'racing incident'
(Of course, I would want to see a proper replay before condeming anyone)

Quote from DejaVu :

get the new caterham mod for rFactor, and set the car up properly. That is where the fun is at

People will always prefer one over the other, it's the same with everything

My e-penis is bigger than all of yours anyway so i win

But my e-daddy is bigger than yours, and he has a e-axe and will chop your e-penis right off... so there !! HA

Anyway, I would much rather not have enough time to play a great sim like Live For Speed, than not have enough time to try out a game like rFactor in order to make a fair comparison and come to the honest conclusion that LFS is obviously the best!

cheers, Col

Quote from frokki :

...I could imagine forcing some noobs, cleanly and by cornering rules, into grass to teach them a lesson, if they aren't willing to respect blue flags at all.

Any move that involves forcing someone onto the grass is by definition not clean, and is breaking at least one rule out of any set of reasonable cornering rules.
If you are overtaking, the simplest and most basic rule is that it is your responsibility as aggressor to ensure that both of you get through the corner safely.... If the other guy ends up on the grass because of your overtaking move, then it's your fault, and the move was dirty not clean.
The only way to fairly get him onto the grass is to pressure him until he screws up and slides wide - no contact required

Now, I'm not saying that the red mist doesn't descend even on the best of us occasionally, just don't kid yourself that this can ever be a 'clean' move.

cheers

Col

Just make it a switch in the ini file, so that the very few people who use it still can (it will replace external view for them), but it doesn't mess up/confuse the interface.
Assuming of course that this isn't a lot of extra work

Col

Quote from AndroidXP :

Adding focal blur + hot air disortion != "pretty much how the game looks"

Don't get me wrong here, it looks rather good on those screens, but displaying both these added effects in realtime and in that quality in the game itself would be a HUGE graphical step, so these effects are far from minor. If you want to compare game graphics, you either take undoctored screens, or you don't bother comparing at all.

Not to mention that before focal blur can be used ingame, the graphics card needs to somehow know where the player wants to focus. Maybe in a FPS, they could focus on the crosshair (might be acceptable), but in a driving sim it would somehow HAVE to look at your eyes (or your intentions)! (or else you would get severe eyestrain and a headache within minutes.

Col

I was browsing rec.autos.simulators back in 2002 for GPL news and came upon a discussion obout a new sim demo that had just been 'discovered'.... that was the last time I went looking for GPL news

Quote from BuddhaBing :

Ah, you're right, that's probably what it was!

edit: it happens even when the car is on its back with both sets of wheels free to spin and it happens to both front and rear wheels. Since in the UFR the rear wheels are non-driven and are not connected via a diff, perhaps friction is modeled in the running gear after all.

perhaps your brakes are always a tiny bit on !?
you really should check this as it could be slowing you down - I think you can use dxtweak or someting to fiz it if it the cause.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Interesting. This is a prime example of how we were told not to do it in driving school

How were you told to do it ?

Quote from george_tsiros :

So, you are arguing that left hand positioning, during a left turn, during daily driving (not formula racing), should be as fig.7 and not as fig.8 (you can try this in your own car)

No, whatever gave you that idea ?
I'm not sure about how they teach you to drive in Greece, but here in the UK, they teach you to 'feed' the wheel through your hands, so if you're driving 'correctly' you left hand would have been moved upwards to a more comfortable position long before it reached the one in your 'fig.7'.
i found a site with an animation of the 'correct' method (in the UK)
turn your volume down if you don't want the audio instructions blaring out.
http://www.2pass.co.uk/steering.htm