Not addicted - the last time I remember being addicted was in the few months following the release of the MRT5... but the whole development project is compelling - even during the long stretches when I don't play, I always read the forum and keep up with the news... So I suppose I'm addicted the the LFS project rather than the LFS game
First of all, it wasn't an argument, it was a suggestion followed by a related observation. Secondly, please don't try putting words in my mouth - it's pretty obvious what I meant... but just in case you really didn't understand, and were really not trying to twist my words in order to more easily attack me:
I said that folks should be confident and relaxed about others with different opinions - implying that they SHOULD express their own opinions but in a relaxed and confident way rather than an extreme, sarcastic and/or agressive manner (which seems to be more and more common around here).
I'm not sure how you can assume to know my political or philosophical beliefs from that post ? For what it's worth nothing I have said supports the promotion of mediocrity, and I do care about excellence... that why I got involved here, I believe LFS has the potential for excellence and that there are a number of people around here with attitude problems who are a threat to it's success
Yes, so what relevant point are you trying to make? maybe you should go back and re-read my posts in this thread...
I can't argue with any of this...
Tristan and anyone else can indeed post whatever they like within the forum rules. If they like they can attack every new visitor, potential licence purchaser, or potential influential supporter... that is their right. What I'm saying is that if they do chose to attack people in this manner, it reflects badly on the LFS community, and by association on the LFS brand.
First of all, My post wasn't directed only at you Tristan - sorry if it seamed that way - I just used part of your post as an example.
You have misunderstood my post - I'm not defending non-critical reviews and I'm not saying that you shouldn't criticise them. The problem is the way you (and you're no where near the worst) do it. It is possible to express dislike or disinterest in somthing without being rude or sarcastic! You seem to have good enough grasp of english that you don't have much of an excuse ?
Heh, a case in point - why, instead of saying you don't like it and explaining why in a level headed way, would you feel the urge to say you despise it... probably closely followed by exaggerated negativity and sarcasm ?
Come to think of it why would anyone 'despise' a sim ?
Hmm, your main criticism of ASS articles seems to be that none of them are critical enough - if thats the case that would make them reasonably unbiased
I was trying to keep out of this thread, but... oh well...
I read through your post Tristan, and was thinking that it seemed intelligent and reasonable until that last paragraph.. which is just another example of an immature and negative mentality that is spreading here like a bad dose of H2N1
I just don't get it - why are so many of the vocal LFS supporters so aggressive and unreasonable?
If they truly believe (like I do) that LFS is head and shoulders above the rest, then they should be confident and relaxed about others folks having slightly different opinions... so maybe they're not so sure ?!
It seems obvious to me that most of the current sims that are are in competition with LFS are very good - they have loyal fans, large user bases, accurate physics, excellent content etc. The ASS folks would not be positive about them if they were not of a high quality. (These guys are not stupid, they are experienced simmers, and are intelligent and dedicated. And, at least in this 'discussion', have proved themselves to be a cut above the average LFS eejit)
It's a sad reflection on LFS when the LFS 'pack' start throwing schoolboy style vitriol around. The most sickening thing though is when they get pally and back up each others petty and aggressive behaviour..
I want LFS to succeed and grow - when representatives of other parts of the wider sim community 'visit' we should be polite and helpful and try to build relationships with them - this would be good for them, good for LFS and good for us as a community. But time and again, the same thing happens - they come here to see what the all fuss is about LFS, and they are attacked mercilessly until they leave with a very bad taste in their mouths.
LFS forum is like the Royston Vasey of the sim world - and they 'aren't local'.
You guys with the pack mentality are damaging LFS !
Yep, better to be critical but fair, tell it like it is and gain respect and popularity from the community - then devs will still be knocking on your door for exposure, but instead of you being worried about what they will(or won't) say, they will be worried about what you might say !!
If the multiplayer server list was updated with a few extra features, this wouldn't be a problem...
WinVROC for GPL is a great example. Most servers when I used to race had at least 15mins qualification, there was no mid race join, and often no car reset.
The main difference is that in the server list, you could see how much quali time was left on each server, so you could either go at the start of quali if you're a noob to the combo, or near the end if you're an alien and only needed 1 quali lap to get pole.
You could iirc set your server list so that the servers with least quali time to go were at the top... This meant that more people hang around in the 'lobby', so you get to chat with folk who: 1 - are not racing, and 2 - don't have to be into the same combos as you. Having experienced this approach before, I would be pretty happy to have this kind of setup in LFS - right now, the 'Lobby' is a joke.
Another benefit of this setup is that one common problem of LFS is less prevalent - when there are a few popular servers that are full and you can't get in, and the rest are nearly empty. Instead of heading for the full servers, folks tend to head for servers where theres only a few minutes of quali left to go... you can also all meet in the lobby and agree to joint the same server for the next race... Seems like a much more flexible and sociable approach than the current LFS setup.
In GPL you couldn't even join a server when a race was under way - I think that would be too extreme, but LFS could certainly improve by using some of the features of WinVROC
I was going to write almost exactly what you did...
I guess we are just stereotypically "canny"
My view on LFS is that it IS getting old !
but its aging like a single malt not like a half finished packet of digestives.
It just gets better every year.
noooo, fruity is fun, but Orion beats it in every department.
(btw, for those who don't know, Orion vs Fruityloops is like LFS vs rFactor... but older and more bitter )
now to keep on topic, I'm another who turns the music off right away in a sim - if I want music, I have a rather large collection to chose from... I found the soundtrack to 'A Few Dollars More' to be pretty good for Blackwood in the demo days, but more recently it's been no music at all for me.
yep, also, if you want to get a pretty good idea of what it was like to use, there is a simulation of it available called 'rebirth' which is now a free download from propellerheads software.. iirc it has 2 303s, an 808 and a 909... great fun to play with and there are loads of demo tracks on the net.
you will find it here
Just create an account, and download the iso (assuming you have a cd writer)...
I agree, go to the barbers, and start moaning to everyone about how you are having hard luck in your virtual on-line racing simulation that you spend all your spare time playing... I guess that would be a good way to get a nice peacful haircut without the barber or anyone else attempting to start a conversation with you
It started to get better, but there's a long way to go
Last night I spectated a couple of races on the STCC silver/gold server. Big field, about 12 fxos and 2 xrts. I was watching a very fast and very experienced xrt racer. He went to (or near to) the front in each race due to the fast starting car. Then one by one, fxos cought up and passed. I would say that of the ones that cought an passed probably 80% of them tapped him wide in corner entry before passing - noone apologised, and none slowed and waited after the taps. This seems to be getting worse not better on the silver server, fxos often have a huge majority, and many of the drivers seem unwilling or unable to respond the different handling and performance of the xrts.
The problem with these incidents are that although they break the rules, they are not serious 'wrecking', and there are so many of them that it would be a full time job reporting them all - so they seem to have quickly become acceptable... people are starting to realise that most of the time they won't get reported...
These drivers would all pass any 'tests' easily, so that would be no help... it seems to be an attitude problem - a few are arrogant ****s who believe that if they are faster than another car for any reason, they have the right of way, and can do what they like to get past, but many just have no manners, so if they get it wrong at corner entry and tap they guy in front, instead of apologising and waiting, they just fire on through like it was a 'good pass'.
(I did it once last night myself in the heat of battle, and felt guilty later - an fxo tapped me and passed in a hairpin, then in the next turn - also a hairpin, I went in a bit too hot (not intentionally), and tapped him back - normally I would have apologised and waited, but I was angry after the previous turn so didn't...)
I think this is a big problem becuase IMO the only way to deal with it is to have a constant admin presence, and thats not practical without loadsamoney
Cynicism aside, your licencing system is great - it has brought a new lease of life to LFS for jaded old has-beens like me
This is the time when I've learned not to wait... if you are in traffic and you slow after tagging the guy in front, you are liable to cause a pile-up. In a league event you should wait until its safe to slow down, then let your victim past.
I guess thats what they call 'tough shit'
Just let him go, then re pass him.
I dunno about a haddock, but you should be able to get it running on a black pudding supper - as long as you use plenty of salt and sauce and keep a bottle or IRN BRU handy for cooling...
(watch out for pickled eggs though - I've heard they can cause stuttering)
I've had this problem occasionally since the first S2 alpha release, There was some discussion at the time, but no real solution was found. I just made loads of tweaks to my system, and always close all non essential apps on my PC, the stuttering only happens very occasionally now. Unfortunately, when it does it usually means end of race for me - a complete graphics freeze for a few seconds... I just slam on the brakes and hope for the best.
Using existing software development methods and technology, effective, robust multi-threaded code is orders of magnitude more difficult to write than good single threaded code, suggesting it should be easy is at best naive.
Good multi-processor code is another few steps above multi-threaded code in terms of complexity and difficulty.
A reasonable analogy would be comparing a simple 2D sliding puzzle with a 2x2x2 rubik cube and a 4x4x4 rubik cube - orders of magnitude more complex.
Sounds simple, but it never is that simle in practice...
If the cars react at a slower speed to an overlap, then after the next frame there will still be an overlap... than add to that the posibility of compound overlap - more than 2 cars or additional lag... you end up with so many corner cases and exceptions that all need extra supporting code, and never really work right...
So the only suitable solution is a more accurate physics model that copes better without needing a 'fix' hacked in there.
I would guess that when the damage model is updated, this issue will change from "why did I fly to the sky after that small tap?" to "how come after that small tap my car was completely destroyed?".
:-D
Are these three sections 'just' simple resonant filters?
If so, I wonder if adding just a very basic waveguide for the main exhaust pipe(s) might make a big difference - it would give a 'throat' to the sound. I know that this would be some work but I also know it is not a huge task as I have had a go with a basic waveguide implementation myself (flute), and I couldn't believe how simple it is, And how effective.... of course, adding in all the fancy refinements that I was suggesting would be a much bigger job - certainly well beyond my abilities - and if you did, I would probably need to upgrade my Athlon1800+ - but those things are probably just overkill
/me takes a guess...
Maybe because each one is in a different "position" in the simulated chamber/pipe structure, so rather than model a complex structure with a seperate bandlimited filter to introduce each sound exitation at the correct position, he introduces them all at the same position but with a time delay calculated by the speed of sound and the distance down the model.... or something... EDIT: oops, I misread - I guess its just to seperate the two pipes in space - one is always going to be a bit further away from the listner than the other, so a 'tiny' delay is a reasonable approximation ?
@Scawen - does your exhaust model include different diameters of pipe and or slightly tapered sections... or some sort of accurate simulation of joins...
I was wondering if somthing like this would introduce some slightly more chaotic (fractal) results that would give a more lively sounds rather than the current ones that seem very periodic and predictable... like the difference between a saxophone and a clarinet - sax is a cone rather than a cylinder, and this gives it a much wilder more expressive sound..... EDIT2 I guess that even if there are no tapered sections in the system, the violence of the exhaust will be constantly deforming the pipes which will in turn alter their response - this will have a similar chaotic effect - like when you blow a trumpet hard, you get a much more raspy 'rude' timbre
Hmm good point - could the lack of a 'shaky' slightly varying note be related to discussions here on the forum a while back about lack of 'play' in the drive-chain. At the time some of the issues with grip were being partly attributed to the lack of play in the drive chain and mounting points in LFS that would exist in real life... I wonder if this also has an impact on the audio characteristics...
There seems to be less feedback like:
I don't like the new sound because A B C
you could improve it by D E F
and more like:
The new sound sucks - I'm going back to the old version... so there !!
Too many people react with extreme judgements, and thats just wasting a great opportunity to really help the develoment process - the little value that their negative and non-constructive comment adds is easily outweighed by the addition of extra 'noise' to the feedback process.
It would be great if more people would spend more time to try and think a bit harder about why they have the reaction they do and express their views with more accuracy... I guess thats a forlorn hope though...
Basically what this poll does is make the feedback even less precise and less personal - so even less useful ! IMO it would make sense to have a vote like this on a change to a 'release' version, but in the context of an early development test release, I think it is un-helpful.
eg. how can people say that they don't like the new sounds as much but can see a greater potential for ultimate success ?
How can they say what it is that they do or don't like ?
About as far away as we are from having the graphics look as good as video fotage of real cars....
But thats not the point.
My understanding is that the sound enging is supposed to give the driver as much feedback as possible, so there will always be a compromise between visceral raw exitement caused by real sounding engine roar, and the more synthetic but much more useful sound obtained through simulation instead of record/playback.... I think right now its not good enough, but it's brand new and in testing - hasn't even made it to an alpha release, so I think folks are being very premature with their judgements...
I think swimming is a far more appropriate analogy...
You've got racing which is like the swim racing - first to the finish is the winner and where the top athletes are houshold names e.g. Thorpe, Phelps, Spitz, Biondi == Shumaker, Prost, Senna, McRae etc. then you have synchronised swimming that is a points based judged sport where the rules and the top athletes are mostly only known by close followers of the sport.
Of course if you don't like that idea there's always 'rhythmic gymnastics' (the one where they don't even need to be very athletic, just good at doing fancy tricks with high precision....)