Quote from Bmxtwins :

Fbo2?

Sorry, the FB02 is the Formula BMW race car, better known as FBM in LFS

Quote from The Very End :

Hey there,

There are a lot of good leagues and small event happening. I suggest you to take a look in this : http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=22 part of the forum.

Are those all the leagues that exist for LFS? Reason is, I was wondering if there is a league which models the Formula BMW one since the FB02 is one of the most important cars in the game

Quote from JPeace :

your making out i know nothing. which is not true. i cba to argue with you, because you are so narrow-minded you cant possibly think outside the box. won't be looking at this thread again. and im leaving this argument, have fun!

Just because we have a disagreement it means I am narrow minded? I am very open minded if you must know, I understand your argument and I strongly disagree. That does not make me narrow minded in the slightest.

Quote from JPeace :

think is, on lfs there are curbs on the entrance of corners because they also run a reverse type of the track, this doesn't happen in real life, because they dont run it backwards. but having said that, any curbs that are there on the entrance we use. let me explain for your narrow-minded mind: the quickest way around a corner, is the shortest and straightest way. to acheive this you need to go the widest possible way through a corner. because the curb lacks as much grip as the tarmac, you can use this to your advantage. coming into a corner, you brake on the curb and pull yourself over onto it, as you turn in, you get some slide because of the curb, THIS IS GOOD, because this means you have had to put less steering input into getting to the apex: this means you can carry slightly more speed to the apex. you then run up against the curb on the exit to ensure you get the quickest possible exit. its the quickest possible way because any steering input will slow you down. you cant argue that, because its common known physics.
as a driver, to acheive the quickest way around a track, you want to maximise the track space given to you, this means using curbs. and if you dont agree, then you really dont understand racing at all and i would advise you to stay well away from real life racing and keep to the "simulator world".

Firstly, stop with this childish one-upping because it's just pathetic.

I do not need you to explain to me how to drive around a track in LFS. I have a 1:13.41 on Blackwood and that is NOT drifting into the corners, NOT braking on the curbs and NOT jumping over the chicanes like the suspension is made out of diamond.

Fact is, in real life you do NOT do any of those things and you can't argue otherwise because so far I have shown you the best of the best doing their stuff in the real world and none of them doing the aforementioned things.

LFS is not real life, and just because you have found a way of bending the physics of the game to get a fast lap time does not mean you would be that good in real life. Deal with it.

Quote from Forbin :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_zsbKvyxk

See 0:44.

That's not a racing CAR, is it. Try that in something with 4 wheels and you've got a waltzer

The biggest thing that gets my grips is I only really like racing at Blackwood in the FBM at the moment and you have a very limited choice. Air Attack is the one to be at but it's always full, so you go for a lesser one, such as Formel BMW but realise they aren't very competative, so you go for one of the other ones and find you just win race after race so they end up banning you :S

Quote from JPeace :

yes, but not in the way you highlighted.

take the right amount of curb, and you will go quick, take too much you will spin, i am half agreeing with you that maybe these guys take a little but too much curb than they would in real life, but even so: you need to take curbs. some examples for you Mr.Dac: imola, the cars climb over the curbs there, and guess what? they are F1 cars. not karts, but F1 cars. and here is a little clip of that: "bounce across the curbs".. "use the curbs on the inside".. "limit the slip on the curb".. here

Nowhere in that video do I see hard braking on the curbs. Do you see what im on about?

Quote from pedronery :

Hi
I would like to know if we can use cheats on your server?

I have a replay in hand of a fellow named MAXI which is using a cheat which any car who touches his, just flies away....which is not very fun...

is there limits to this?

Forgive me if im speaking nonsense but are you sure he's just got really bad lag?

All the circuits I've driven on in LFS have distance markers where there is heavy braking. For the other corners it's mostly judgement call as the entry speed, position, balance, tyres, weight, etc means you have to adapt your inputs to the conditions.

Quote from JPeace :

not just llandow, rissington, whilton mill, Llyd, clay pigeon, fulbeck, PFI even freaking shennington.

and tbh, i think that you should look at rubans barrichello, he brakes in the middle of the track, middle to edge, and then, as he brakes, he moves onto the kurb. now, he doesn't spear off or go straight on, which you might think would happen if you are believing what mr dac is saying here. no he doesnt spear off, he turns in fine, gets on apex (which is usually taking a small amount of curb too) and exits (and again, runs up against the curb). as you have quite rightly said, karting is not the same as F1, but its still 4 wheels, and in karting you need a lot more feel than in an F1 car. some curbs work, some dont. but the majority do, also, in BTCC and singleseater formula classes, you can see them taking "nibbles" from the kurbs and sliding slightly to gain that extra tenth.

in real life, the absolute quickest way to go around a track quicker than the other drivers on the track is to find that small slither of finness between; sliding too much, and sliding too little, taking too much curb, or taking too little. and of course, if you take TOO MUCH CURB then you will lose traction and spin. curbing is, after all, not tacrmac and doesn't produce the same grip levels as tarmac does. hence why in the wet conditions, curbs and white lines are absolute "no"s as they are painted over and wet paint provides no grip for a driver attempting to drive a dry line over a curb.

which leads to the question of weather conditions in LFS, if the devs do decide that two different weather conditions (or more) would be a great addition to the game (which i think could be a good addition, but imo). then they would have to think long and hard about the variables in the game. you wouldnt be able to hammer the curbs like we do atm in the dry in the wet, just like real life. but i dont know if thats ever doing to happen.

back to the origional argument. i think, once again, that dac doesnt know what he is talking about, and if maybe intrepid could back me up on this? that hammering it over the curbs in some cases in IRL is the quickest way around the track. think about it, you are in affect, cutting the corner slightly by taking curbs. and we all know the quickest way around a corner is the shortest way... dont we?

cheers.

J

Well you have just answered my question. Curbs aren't tarmac, and they don't offer the same amount of traction. And that is why you never, or at least very rarely see F1 drivers braking on them to the same extent you do in LFS.

So actually, both my point on sliding and curb braking have been supported

Quote from mdmx :

Yes i totally agree it is a bit too easy to drift especially with slicks. But i think the actual problem is that there isn't enough friction when not drifting, at the point when the drifting starts (don't know the correct term in english) so cars starts to drift in situation where it should not. So you have to drift, if you want to be fast. Bcos the car starts to drift too easily.

I think more aggressive angle of attack is needed. Not sure if the lap times are decreased, but the way the car goes thru the corner at the same speed is hopefully changed.

Road cars doesn't feel ultra realistic either, i mean, i used to own 170hp RWD road car and well, XRG tail feels very very slippery compared to that. You don't have to be that careful with throttle with those horsepowers irl, it's very hard to get a drift at high speed just with throttle on dry tarmac, simply not enough power. And XRG has what, like 140hp?

It's just too slippery, like driving on wet tarmac irl. Or gravel. And at gravel controlled small drifting is usually fastest way to go.

But soon it will all change...

My actual point was, that even with realistic physics the simulator WR's will still be higher than IRL. Not to argue that LFS physics are ultra realistic.

And driving at the gravel in LFS is sooooo smooth, feels like driving on ice with normal road winter tyres.. No worries, no hurry to catch it up, just long smooth slides all over the place.

Totally agree, and I think we have found the answer!

I also hope the WR's will be more realistic with the new tyre and damage model patch. I also hope that the traction on the curbs will be reduced to stop being using them as a braking area WHICH THEY ARE NOT!

It would be interesting to see some online racing stats if they are available over the last 3 or 4 years.

Quote from BenjiMC :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... jN0GQ&feature=related

Heres another pole lap at A1 lol.

Well we have established that it's hit and miss whether it happens at one corner of one circuit, which just happens to be a very slipperly one at best - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21M-YzoS9g4

That is still not proof you will have to do a lot better than that.

This is an actual pole lap of the A1 ring not a practice session - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... SaVeA&feature=related

Quote from BenjiMC :

the GOAT doing some dori http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KiqCDn1f4

That looks to me like traction problems, seems like it slows him down he hesitates on the throttle for a very long time, not least he loses it completely on the next lap.

Quote from typhirion :

Off topic: Lewis Hamilton likes to have a lose backend as he feels more incontrol of the car. he has said this in this first season talking to a ITV reporter.

I totally understand your point, and I knew about it already, but the difference is between a car that can be steered more easily and drifting into a corner. To my mind, and all the super fast qualifying and race laps I have seen watching F1 they have never drifted or braked hard over the curbs. That is the reason why I am defending my position here.

To 'The Very End' - I also know what your saying, the laps seem almost too perfect, as if it has been driven hundreds if not thousands of times at full throttle until one lucky lap however the odds are in real life holds together. My point is, it's not how a simulation should be, whether or not it's a fault in the physics or the nature of the 'free and restart' environment.

Quote from AcesHigh :

Im sure if you made a f1 setup that lasted only 1 lap going all out, and if the driver is nuts enough... and you have unlimited everything for practice and such... we very well could see a f1 car sliding around the track to make a superfast time.

Have you got any proof of this?

Quote from AcesHigh :

1st of all, statements like "i dont care about WR cause they are unrealistic" is very lame IMO... sounds like something a 10 y/o would say when he is jealous(spelling?)

If you read carefully you will see I gave praise to the drivers and it looks to me that your offensive post is suspicious and loses you credit.

I saw S2 also.

Quote from Forbin :

It's not really drifting. The drivers in the examples above are not trying to get big, high-angle slides. They're trying to get the most lateral force possible out of the tires, not showing off. Maximum force requires a certain amount of slip, but slip results in heavy wear, so it's not really something you do for more than a lap or two.

There's also the fact that the conditions in LFS are, for the most part, static. With the exception of tire temp, tire wear, and fuel load, nothing really changes over the course of a lap or two. Even the things that do change are very predictable. This means you can basically drive the same exact lap, over and over, knowing exactly how the car will respond right on the limit.

I know what they are doing and why, I was the one who brought it up. The simple fact of the matter is this, it is a simulation and at the moment it is possible to drive laps unrealistically to achieve faster times than would be in real life. Accept it, deal with it and move on. Easy.

A kart is not a car. And if it's such a good method of driving, why dont F1 drivers do one quickly quali lap drifting and then call it a day?

Quote from JPeace :

DAC.

there is no convincing you.
i give up.

You mean to say I have just owned you by showing proof that LFS is not as real as you would like to think it is

Quote from JPeace :

are you blind?
he turns in agressivly, and so does alonso, this turns the back around slightly, causing a slight slide, or drift, which scrubbs off enough speed to enable him to connect with the apex and get much better exit speed, people in BTCC i have seen doing it too. sorry but i think you are completely wrong about all this and dont know what your talking about.

edit;

Anyways, here, this is Bawbags WR lap, notice the drift into T1 and the heavy braking over the curbs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qg8Rti_HWU

And this is Hamiltons abu dhabi lap which was 6 tenths quicker than anybody else, so in effect this is his WR lap, notice NO braking over the curbs and NO drifting?? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjTJOIhdgF0

Last edited by Dac, Wed 13 Jan 2010, 13:40.

Quote from JPeace :

you obviously dont watch lewis hamilton much then.

Yes I do. And no, he doesn't do it either. Not that there is anything in particular which suggests he is so different from the other F1 drivers

Quote from durrri :

a slight amount of oversteer is favourable with regard to total speed

.. I think that would be a general paraphrase form the advanced setup guide..

in addition, managing to drive a WR setup tends to be very hard for any driver who did not create it - a super fast car is also super hard to control.. ergo the "drift feeling"

A slight amount of oversteer does not mean sliding the arse of the car out all the way into and around the corner whilst keeping the throttle nailed. It's a prime example of where the simulation needs to be improved. It doesn't happen in real life and there's no way you can argue otherwise.