Guys, the cars' limit is also set by the setup. So no, you do NOT have to drive within the 1-2 sec range off the wr in order to get the feeling of the car. Not everyone is using a wr setup (and shouldn't do if he just wants to see the fundamental characteristics of the car).

Don't know if this has been already suggested (hope not) but I would very much welcome an option to save the settings of the free camera (shift+u).

I don't think 1 saves a replay, 2 does that (1 restarts an spr and does nothing to an mpr).

Dear Funnybear u did confuse the cars (and us)

FXR = front engined, AWD, turbo
XRR = front engined, RWD, turbo
FZR = rear engined, RWD
(see the attachments)

As for the original question, to my understanding it refers to the handling of the cars in ideal situations (we all know that the FXR is slower than the XRR, which in turn is slower than the FZR)

Under this point of view, the FXR is by far the easiest to cope with

Last edited by migf1, Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:58.

Quote from EmilO :

How do i set turn signals on to the G25?

Via the Wingman Profiler software.

The only prob is the handbrake, I don't use it all. Instead of rear view I just use the mirror, while view left/right are happily assigned to the wheel's buttons. The rest on the Shifter unit (for me, as shown in the attached picture).

Quote from mike61es :

Hi All,
I'm fairly new to this game and thouroughly enjoying it. I've had it since January but I can't seem to get my lap times to be competitive. I'm always about 3 or 4 seconds slower than the faster drivers in the race. At the moment I'm concentrating on Blackwood circuit with UFR, FBM and FOX. I've tried downloading different setups but others always have the edge on me round corners and braking. Have also downloaded the setup guides to try my own setups but with no progress.

Generally I find that if I brake to late I understeer into the corner and if I brake earlier I get hit from behind or get overtaken.

Can anybody please give me some advice as I would really like to improve my lap times by 2 or 3 seconds.

Hi there!

First of all I'd suggest you focus on one car only, preferably the FBM, since it's by far the easiest among the others you listed... even with very low downforce settings. The FOX feels easy in the begining, but in order to move fast u need to lower the downforce quite a bit and this is something this car doesn't really like
The UFR is a little, savaged beast with a rather awkard handling and a bitchy tedency to flip over easily, due its really short track width. Not a very wise choice to start your adventure in LFS

Secondly, try to learn and master trail-braking (alternative link, both good read) as soon as you can, since this is the most important trick most fast guys do and gain time and/or positions at Blackwood's K1. I'd suggest you pratcice trail-braking with the XFG using a fast setup (such as Nilex's or Partyboy's available on teaminfernno pages) until you get the hang of it. In short, trail braking is to brake as late and as hard as you can and gradually release the brake pedal while you're steering into the corner, while you start applying some throttle (I'm assuming you already brake with your left foot, otherwise you'll also need to learn and practice heel & toe)

Thirdly, as others already mentioned, study replays of fast guys, preferably those who also share their setup so you can use it too while practising. Take note of their braking/accelerating points and their entry-apex-exit speeds in corners. Don't try to mimic them instantly, but keep them in mind while practsing so you know the setup's limits and progressively try to reach them.

As for the Blackwood corners, almost all of them are quite crucial for the final laptime. Perhaps the first (needs trail braking) and the last one (doesn't really need trail braking) are a little bit more tricky than the others. Not all corners need trail-braking. When you don't (or until you do) trail-brake, negotiate corners using the slow in, fast out approach. This roughly means: break early and accelerate early (ideally before the apex, or at the apex at the very latest).

I hope I helped a bit! Be patient, methodic and persistant and you'll eat up those 2 secs in no time

Last edited by migf1, Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:42. Reason : typos

Quote from ajp71 :

No but anybody who has a 3 pedal H-shifter setup who chooses not to use it is and a lot of G25 owners admit to using 2 pedals and paddle shift because it's faster.

I'm one of those guys who use left foot braking, sequential gearbox, and paddle shifting on my G25. And not only that, I also use custom cameras, virtual gauges (and virtual mirrors in all single seaters). I'm even lowering the degrees of rotation separately for each car until I'm both fast and conisntent and I rarely steer anything with more than 360 degrees (mostly 240 to 290).

The reason is simple: when I run LFS I mostly do it competing, and when you compete you want to be fast. Occasionally I cruise with Shift+F, H-shifter, clutch and right foot braking but it's not my norm. And usually I do it in rfactor.

Theres' nothing to "admit", I don't feel guilty for something so I must admit I did it (or confess it). It's not a guilty secret or anything. It's a rather intelligent choice when you compete.

Last edited by migf1, Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:43.

I love the XRR, I hate the FZR and I kinda like the FXR. My vote goes to the FZR, since it reminds me of a heavy boat or something (which, oddly, once it snaps its tail you cant't really bring it back... and it snaps it quite easily imho)

Just 2 clikcs with PSP

Turned 40 last October.

Perhaps you mean Race07? I can't find Race08 info anywhere!

Quote from JJ72 :

I think the caterham mod has the best representation of what the RF engine can do, in a context comparable to what we can find in LFS. It has the most "elastic" feel slightly over limit and you can be pretty confident when the rear slides around, but not in the arcadish fool proof kind of way. Compare to the LX4 it actually feels less pinsharp and have more mass, which is the opposite of most rf mods around.

It could be that this mod was the point of reference in the development of the Real Feel Plugin

Sean Edwards (a real Porsche 997 racer) who is currently leading comfortably the rfactor PCC2007 championship on F1RST3, has admitted that PCC2007 physics are total crap! In fact he has given feedback for the development of another PCC rfactor mod, the Porsche Carrera Cup France, but I haven't tried it, so I don't know if it resembles reality better (actually I have never driven a 997 in rl).

Perhaps there's no need to get into all the trouble downlloading mods and tweaking settings Tristan, if absolute realism in physics is what you are always seeking for. rFactor just doesn't get well in that area generally.

I just suggested the above combo because I had real fun the other day there, despite the physics flaws. It was a pleasant break from LFS.

But if you do take the time to do some rfcator testings, then physicswise there supposed to be better mods around insetad of PCC2007. Just let me know to have a look for them (Caterham, Niel's C6 and I think Skoda Octavia Cup are amongst them).

Last edited by migf1, Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:02.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

If Tristan likes the PCC porsches I'll have to buy a hat and eat it..

That's why I suggested he only tries them in the Ring and fully manual. Hoping that flawed physics will be somewhat masked by the extra effort to keep the car on the track

Last edited by migf1, Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:51.

Quote from AlienT. :

migf1, thanks for that, I will give it a try with your settings, every other time I've tried it I just can't get Rfuctor to feel right at all

rFactor's major problem is the poor force-feedback implementation and the poor physics, which give a really narrow margin to correct the car when it crosses its grip-limit.

Once you oversteer, 90% of the times you can't recover because the car does not accept your steering/pedal commands no matter what recovering technique you try. Also, when the car understeers, 90% of the times the force-feedback goes dead (and I mean dead). Plus that any ingame ffb setting other than Low Effects yields in a lot of canned effects.

With some mods and the RealFeel FFB Plugin things get quite improved over the default feeling, although they usually require a bloody lot of tweaking & fine tuning. And still they are NOT in par with LFS.

So if you want to have some fun with rfactor, take my advice and NOT compare it with LFS in physics and ffb, or you won't have fun at all.

The way I see it goes like that: in LFS I show tolerrance for the so-so gfx, the bad sounds and the non-existant rl tracks in order to enjoy the physics and the informative ffb. In rfactor I show tolerrance for the so-so physics/ffb (selected mods only, the rest are total crap) in order to enjoy rl tracks, awsome sound and good gfx.

Yestreday I was trying to make some good RealFeel FFB settings for Megane Trophy 2.02 (a so and so mod), testing the car in Varano (an awsome little testing track). After lots of trial &error effort I ended up with these settings, but in order to have the desired rich ffb feeling the G25 ended up feeling so damn heavy, even with the Megane's power steering option enabled

Last edited by migf1, Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:44.

Tristan, what happened... still racing that Porsche in the Ring?

Just joking! Seriously, let us know if you liked it or not.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Post thy settings, and I shall try them. Possibly tonight (woo, tiny amount of free time )

Nordschleife 2007

RealFeel FFB Plugin

Porsche Carrera Cup 2007

RealFeelFFB Settings for PCC2007 (you need to login to view these... i use Techad's PC2007 specific settings, who made the FFB plugin)

Car Setup

I use a G25 and especially for the rFactor I have made a profle in the Wingman Profiler, with all G25's settings equal to 0, except the Overall Strength which is 100% (those are the instructions in RealFeel's readme file) and the Rotation degrees which I have set to 360.

Ingame settings: I don't remeber by heart, but I think I have set the speed sensitivity to 25%-35% and I always put the car's steering lock between 18% and 19% on the setup.

And here is my tweaked FFB section in rfactor's Controler.ini file

Note: Your mileage may vary!

Last edited by migf1, Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:29.

I share Becky's, ajp71's and Hyper's points of view!

With some recent mods and plugins rFcactor is well worth your money, not to mention some brilliant real life tracks (e.g Nordschleife 2007, or Le Mans 1977-1988).
It easily complements LFS in the areas the latter suffers, and vice versa. rFactor when properly modded is a hell more immersive sim than LFS when it DOES NOT come to physics and force-feedback

GTR2 is another title I would definintely recommend, as it features the absolutely best modelled rl tracks than any other sim I have tried so far. It focuses on GT cars, but there are also mods for it (most of them crappy)

Both titles use the gMotor2 engine (developed by ISI for rfactor and tweaked by Simbin for GTR2 -added rain among other things) which means you will need to spend a lot of time in fine-tuning several aspects (including the force-feedback for your wheel, which is very important, but you will never feel it like you do in LFS). But you'll be thrilled in other areas (gfx, sound, mods, etc).

I also hear good words about Race07, but haven't tried it myself. Richard Burns Rally is also an excellent choice if you like WRC (I don't). nKar pro's physics and ffb are in par with LFS, the gfx is awsome but the sim is buggy and abandoned (rumor has it that its dev is making a bike simulator now lool).

PS. Tristant, com'on buddy... driving PCC2007 (Mobil 1 Supercup) fully manual (h-shifter, clutch, right-foot braking) with Real Feel Plugin properly set, in Nordschleife 2007 ver 2.0 is not that bad, even with ISI's flawed physics

Last edited by migf1, Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:26. Reason : typos (lots of them lol)

When coming from the mouth of lots of experienced and dedicated LFSers, then improving suggestions and lack of motivation is not moaning. It is constructive critisism (or food for thought if you prefer). And it surely doesn't negate what LFS and the community have achieved so far!

As for the demo users, if the demo's capabilities, the LFSW and these forums aren't enough for them to buy the sim, I seriously doubt that any S2 user will ever persuade them to do so. There is no point in pushing someone to do something he doesn't really want to do (btw, 'informing' differs from 'pushing' )

I'm affraid I'm getting on dan's boat too. Since a month or so I'm having trouble getting motivation to race LFS. I do it occasionally but I don't get joy out of it (or at least not the joy I used to get out of it).

I was waiting for OLFSL to announce their calendar, hoping to get my motivation back, but the hope was put out as soon as I read LX6's in SO, LX4's in rallycorss and FZ5's+RAC's in FE. I'm burnt out I guess and "sadistic" combos don't really help me out a lot

For a while I have kinda switched to rfactor, mostly because I can race on some well implemented real-life tracks, legendary tracks like Nordschleife, Monza, Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, etc. rFactor's physics are a bit of a joke and forcefeedback is even worse, but I'm honestly fed up doing Astons, Blackwoods and Westhills

Ultimately I would really love to be able to follow online real life championships (like F1 or DTM or whatever) as they happen but in a sim with decent physics. That would give me long term motivation.

For now I'm sticking mostly to rFactor, without leaving LFS of cource (I may even participate in a few OLFSL races) hoping that I will miss racing on LFS tracks sooner than I think

Last edited by migf1, Thu, 6 Mar 2008 23:57.

TBH, I do notice a bit of a differenece between 1024 and 2048 skins, although not while racing (mostly when watching replays and/or videos).

Regarding bandwidth, 2048 jpgs can be compressed enough so they don't exceed the 400kb limit on LFSW and they still look crispier than their (much less compressed) 1024 counterparts. So bandwidth isn't a problem with 2048 skins. But they would cause an fps problem if what was said earlier in this thread is true: that skins get decompressed in gfx card's memory so they can be rendered (is this indeed true?)

I'm attaching a rar file containing two screenshots from the CMX Viewer. I saved them in bmp format so they don't get compressed at all (compare for example the tow handle in the front). I'm also attaching the 2 skins, the 2048 being 396kb and the 1024 being 377kb.

Last edited by migf1, Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:39. Reason : typos

Quote from Eldanor :

I believe if you can get a sub 8" around The Ring in GPL you get a couple of extra inches, really
[snip]

Interlagos could be quite... cocky too

It's a little bit of everything that turns down some people and turn on some others. A sim can't satisfy them all in all areas.

What I'd like to further comment on is about some fellow posters who claimed that it's only natural to get bored if you play the same game over and over again for a vast period of time. It surely is natural, but the whole point of this thread is to seek why this might happening with LFS (correct me if i'm wrong). LFS is not supposed to and does not remain the same game through the years. It's rather an ongoing project, so we shouldn't play the same game over and over (and in some extend we didn't).

So the real question is whether the LFS progress satisfies the majority of the community, especially the online racers according to the topic's title.

Although I agree with Ian that the sim's progress is slow and with questionable priorities, I beleive LFS is still the... king of online racing. I've tried mostly rfactor and GTR2 and none of them offers the same excitement online... not even close! Wheel-to-wheel fights feel really short and somehow fake in those sims. Is it the superior LFS force-feedback, is it the physics engine, is it the fact that I'm by far more experienced in LFS? I dunno, the point is that LFS still offers me the greatest deal of enjoyment online, compared to any other sim I have tried.

That being said, constructive criticism should always be welcome by any sim's devs & community, since it's the only healthy way for a sim to evolve towards the right directions. For me RL tracks and sound rework shoud be high in LFS's to-do list, others prefer physics, more cars and grfx to be done first. Some others prefer rain, night and offline championships. One way or the other, the truth is that LFS is starting to show its (evolving) age and it's up to the devs to get the message early and do something about it, before the competition reaches or even overcomes LFS's current strong points.

As far as it concerns me, RL tracks play major role in what is called "immersion" (gfx and sound help too). Also, RL tracks will open a door to the outside world for LFS, where everybody else (and especially motorsport entusiasts) have a common code of communication (point of reference or whatever other expression comes in your mind for that matter).

Actually if you really think of it, RL tracks would do more good than harm to LFS, in almost all directions. It's up to the devs firstly and the community secondly not to misuse them.

As I have already said, I'm not entitled to dictate what's the best way of bringing RL tracks into LFS. But I'm entitled to express politely a healthy opinion about the sim I like most, whithout having people responding (even indirectly) with references to my... cock

Last edited by migf1, Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:42.