That was a new one: bawbag being an inconsistant racer

PS. Where were those guys living the last couple-triple of years?

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

The point is that not every LFS player is an "average talented driver", there are people who are just very slow! And they train a lot, trust me!

You mean people with normal IQ, good health and average rig, keep practising for example xfg@so2 let's say 3-4 hours a day, for 7 days, with an inferno/setupgrid setup and they cannot produce a 1.05.137? (that's the current 103% from the wr in that combo)

I'm really having serious trouble beleiving such a thing!

Quote from BlueMile :

Put on a green latex suit, a satellite dish on your head; boot up LFS and there you are. You may not be fast, but you will certainly be alien.

Where's that... dish?

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

[snip]
There are people that have been practising for tons of hours, know every car, every track, have watched other people's replays hundreds of times... and they're not even within the 103% benchmark. Why? Because they CAN'T do better. Those "anti-aliens" seem to be perfectly fine, no one asks "why are these people so slow if they practice so much and so hard?"
[snip]

They must be retarted or something! Even if they exist, I bet they are just a tiny minority of people.
I seriously doubt that any average talented driver cannot reach the 103% of a wr in a given combo despite practicing tons of hours on that combo, as you say.

Quote :

Think of how many people there could be out there that may be faster than the aliens we know but they just don't play LFS. What would those be?

We don't care about them. Here we are discussing about those who do play LFS. With your way of thinking, think of how many people could be out there that could be faster than Ayrton Senna but they just weren't racing in Formula 1.

Last edited by migf1, Fri 15 Aug 2008, 20:48.

Quote from Leprekaun :

well, I have very much the same feeling but really, you're not doing enough to reach their level . Personally, I built up most of my speed from just driving constantly and understanding more and more about the limits of grip and how to manage it correctly. There are 2 other factors to consider as well or to look into and they're telemetry and setup. Even though you may have the WR set, doesn't necessarily meant that it suits your style so you'd have to tweak it a bit more to your liking. Telemetry is also really really good and I'm intent on getting into properly as telemetry tells you exactly where he's gaining time on you so try and get a program like F1 Performance Viewer or AnalyzeForSpeed as they're very good for that kind of thing.

It can also work the other way around. Instead of adopting the setup to your driving style, you can adopt your driving style to the given setup. Both ways can be equally effective, depending on which side of the alien river you live on.

Quote :

And then at the end of the day, pure speed isn't the only thing that separates winners from losers, theres also consistency, race craft and strategy. You can race with a guy who can get a 1:12.5 on his 2nd lap but get like 1:13s or 1:14s on his other laps and when compared to someone who can constantly get low 1:13s or something, then they'll most probably find it fairly easy to overtake.

Hotlapping and racing are two differnet worlds. True aliens, are all around aliens (like ray for example) who can cope with anything, anywhere, anytime. But to reach this level, natural talent is not enough... you must have practiced a lot, and I mean a lot and for a long time (talent+experience).

Last edited by migf1, Wed 13 Aug 2008, 16:39.

Quote from Darkone55 :

That means you need a lot of practise to be quick. But it doesn't mean that a lot of practise makes you quick.

So very true! Still, practice remains essential for being "alien fast"!

Quote from Crashgate3 :

The difference between an alien and just a very, very fast driver is that the alien doesn't really need to think about what they're doing (as much). They're lucky enough to be born with the kind of brain that just naturally is wired up to be good at the kind of reactions you need for motor-racing.

Obviously practice is absolutely neccesary, but an alien will always be faster than a non-alien simply because for the alien a part of driving is subconcious and so the reaction to a given stimulus is always faster and more accurate.

Lewis Hamilton is a pretty good example of an alien. He's had far less practice than the other more experienced drivers, but he just 'gets it' and so is far quicker than most of the others can ever be.

Not true, I'm affraid. Even Lewis is racing since his childhood!

Quote from xaotik :

And here I was thinking it was a beer belly.

That too (in the lack of proper... champane )

Practice is not to get underestimated when we are talking about "alien like fast". All the top guys have a huge mileage under their belt.

In your second replay (...5.spr) you've damaged the suspension of the car in your outlap (you can see it by pressing F10). So, all the rest of the laps were done with a damaged suspension. You should have either restarted after you hit the wall or reset the car (put it in complete stop and press the space-bar... if it says "option is not available" or something like that, type: "/canreset yes" (no quotes)).

Quote from RocksGt :

You're missing one point
[snip]

LFS it's not all about HotLapping... some of us (in LFS-Spain community the vast majority of us) are focused in races (1 hour races).

[snip]

So I can understand the problem about HL with clutch button, but there's people out there using button clutch for other reasons than a pair of tenths on HL

That's a fair comment! Personally I don't consider normal BC unfair (since its an ingame option). But I do consider unfair the use of a macro (which is an external automation).

That being said (again and again ) there's nothing stopping anyone to use normal BC in races and AC in the hotlaps they upload to LFSW. They are two different worlds and it just happens that this ambiguity on LFSW of who's using the macro and who's not to give a bad name to those who don't use AC or CL.

I agree! I have even suggested to add an option ingame for locking/hiding setup options, in the seek of a car behavior closer to what its characteristics suggest.

For me, anything available in-game is neither cheat nor unfair.

Quote from arco :

[snip]
Waiting for arrechee to beat it with 0.4s (using AC).... :eclipseeh
Lol!

Well, it happened... the other way around (an itching penis can yield to the job get done after all )

Quote from Napalm Candy :

Sorry but you don't know what are you saying. If you think that is easy to beat, beat it and arrechee will beat again with 0.4s less than you.
[snip]

Actually, Pallukka just did it a couple of hours ago

Ray, that sounds quite a challenge (not for me of course). I'm eager to see arrachee (or anyone else) take it, so we can watch a marvellous WR dual at FBM@BL1 or FBM@SO4... it would also give you back lots of the motivation you lost when you got that job and car

Quote from bunder9999 :

[snip]
edit: i didn't originally want to play with the brakes, removing the ability to lock up seems... artificial.

It's not artificial, it's a perfectly legit setup option and as most of them it depends on your very own driving style.

Too bad you don't have force-feedback (you're running it via Wine?). It helps a lot in understanding and feeling the weight transfers of the cars, thus helping you (even warning you) in many cases.

Other than that, set your G25 rotation to 720 degrees both ingame and in the drivers and also set the Wheel Compensation to 1 ingame. This will make sure your wheel wont't turn more or less than the intended by the devs steering of each car.

Centering force might also killing you

Don't give up, it will take some time but you'll get there. For a start, I think you need a good setup. This is Vincper's setup who used to have the world record a few days ago. It's not easy to drive it as is, so decrease the brake power about 20 clicks (this will help you NOT locking your wheels while braking) and increase the brake bias 3-4 clikcs (this will help you NOT loosing the rear while braking & turning).

If you keep loosing the rear while accelerating, increase 2 clicks the rear downforce.

All the above will be pointless if you don't correct your racing line. The best way to begin with is to download a replay (preferably Vincper's, since you aready have his setup) and press 4 while you are watching it. It will show a green line, representing the racing line. Study it all the way (especiall corners entry & exit)!

Good luck!

PS. What wheel are you using and how many degrees of steering?

Quote from RocksGt :

[snip]

Anyway... he has proven not to use the macro (and not to need it), I only hope that people get sure of what they say before accusing anyone of cheating

I paid my respects to arrechee for his recent wr using AC, which were against two tough oponents: Bawbag & Rudy van Buren! In this weird macro situation (where it's not crystal clear who's using it an who's not) the only safe way to stay with a clean name is to drive either with AC or with CL.

If anyone will be accused of cheating or not is pretty much his responsibility, and as far as I am concerned, arrechee just did the right thing! He proved his case! I just hope he keeps using AC (or CL)

me too, but i get

Quote from fujiwara :

well arrechee just gave 5 answers in lfsworld ...

Actually 4 (the FZR replay gives me an OSS error).

Quote from Glenn67 :

ok so programming your controller to make it easier to access and change settings in the F11 & F12 screens is a cheat? Or using logitec profiler to adjust the profile of your clutch axis is a cheat? Hmm what about using teamspeak to chat to team mates about race strategy, or using the analog gauges to give you a different view of your gauges to whats standard or modifying sound files to enable you to hear skid sounds more clearly or using logitec profiler to adjust deg of wheel rotation or using an insim app to be a pit spotter. I could go on.

No matter how long you can go on, the macro is an EXTERNAl AUTOMATION (more than one driving operations assigned to ONE button).

Quote from diablo21 :

AFAIK he has already beaten a few WR's with autoclutch

And I respect him for that! That's the way to go (off my black list)

@glenn: can't make it more clear to you, sinbad did too... the macro is an EXTERNAL AUTOMATION... that's the fundamental thing to call it a cheat. The others you keep referiring too are of secondary importance.

Quote from Glenn67 :

[snip]

So why oh why are people still insisting on calling the button clutch or even macro shifting an exploit when it is clearly the autoclutch which is behaving incorrectly and that the button clutch is actually more realistic and correct? (oh I know it's because the majority are using autoclutch )

Quote :

How anyone can call this a cheat or exploit is beyond me with the current facts at hand

Quote :

So to go around branding button clutch and macro users as cheats and dishing out life time bans is something I would be very cautious of doing, and I say that as an autoclutch user.

The majority is not always correct, take off your blinkers guys...

Here we go again, tha macro is external to LFS!

Quote :

I think all people that use the autoclutch are nubs and don't appreciate realism, much the same way that automatic uses are nubs

I think people that use the macro are cheaters