WE2X Uphill Challenge - see poll and challenge in main forum!
Hello racers!
Here is a little layout for a simple "uphill challenge":
You start near the roundabout and follow the racing path indicated by the red cones - right around the roundabout, thru the tunnel and then straight up the hill.
the difficulty is in the small bends at the start - here you have to try to be as fast as possible for a good time and also at the finish - here you have to find the breaking point blindly.
the goal is to be as fast as possible up that hill and break early enough to come to a complete halt beneath the roof of the medical center.
now this is where i need your help as my layout is not working like i want it - it should have a start and a finish, the control points are optional as there is not much possible area to cheat and then there should be an "off limits" area right after the roof of the medical center that gives a time penalty if touched to force the racers to come to a halt under the roof.
can anybody have a look at my layout attempt and make it work? maybe there are some things that need to be changed or added to make it work like i described?
thank you, mo
EDIT: Fixed layout added to post below!
Here is a little layout for a simple "uphill challenge":
You start near the roundabout and follow the racing path indicated by the red cones - right around the roundabout, thru the tunnel and then straight up the hill.
the difficulty is in the small bends at the start - here you have to try to be as fast as possible for a good time and also at the finish - here you have to find the breaking point blindly.
the goal is to be as fast as possible up that hill and break early enough to come to a complete halt beneath the roof of the medical center.
now this is where i need your help as my layout is not working like i want it - it should have a start and a finish, the control points are optional as there is not much possible area to cheat and then there should be an "off limits" area right after the roof of the medical center that gives a time penalty if touched to force the racers to come to a halt under the roof.
can anybody have a look at my layout attempt and make it work? maybe there are some things that need to be changed or added to make it work like i described?
thank you, mo
EDIT: Fixed layout added to post below!
Last edited by molocco, .
Reason : changed title
OMG 
this track update is beyond all expectations! it is not just one new track - these are one hundred new tracks and combinations! well done, this was well worth all the waiting. go go go scavier!!!
if that is just a glimpse of what is to come, then there is a bright future for lfs.
and by the way - with all those surrounding roads we now have the long awaited rally-pack - at least for tarmac rallies! now just add some gravel when the new physics are ready and maybe some rain and wet surface and the combinations are endless, even without a night cycle.
when i tried the new track yesterday i only drove some laps on the actual race track to see the new corners, but then i spent more than two hours straight on all the other terrain!
thank you scavier! you made the most amazing driving simulator of all times! keep on the good work!
peace, mo
this track update is beyond all expectations! it is not just one new track - these are one hundred new tracks and combinations! well done, this was well worth all the waiting. go go go scavier!!!
if that is just a glimpse of what is to come, then there is a bright future for lfs.
and by the way - with all those surrounding roads we now have the long awaited rally-pack - at least for tarmac rallies! now just add some gravel when the new physics are ready and maybe some rain and wet surface and the combinations are endless, even without a night cycle.
when i tried the new track yesterday i only drove some laps on the actual race track to see the new corners, but then i spent more than two hours straight on all the other terrain!
thank you scavier! you made the most amazing driving simulator of all times! keep on the good work!
peace, mo
Herzlichen Glückwunsch zum Geburtstag!
All the best and live long and prosper to create the ultimate virtual driving universe that goes way beyond any "racing game" known to man.
All classes of vehicles in all sorts of terrain (just look at the magnificient mud-physics of spintires off road simulator to see that people enjoy driving under all circumstances and not just racing, just because it is fun and challenging) and the biggest selection of places to race on! go go go scavier!
peace, mo
All the best and live long and prosper to create the ultimate virtual driving universe that goes way beyond any "racing game" known to man.
All classes of vehicles in all sorts of terrain (just look at the magnificient mud-physics of spintires off road simulator to see that people enjoy driving under all circumstances and not just racing, just because it is fun and challenging) and the biggest selection of places to race on! go go go scavier!
peace, mo
great progress report! looking forward to driving that new westhill track!
on the last screenshot there is a traffic light visible - does that mean the new westhill track will have a functioning light system for the yellow and red flags?
off topic// as there recently was the suggestion to fill the grandstands on the tracks with people to make some more racing day athmosphere - scavier please have a look at how the audience in grid autosport looks. there are lots of animated people everywhere and most notably right next to the track, leaning over the barriers and waving and cheering along. this might be only a small detail, but it makes a great impression of life on the sides of the track even when racing along with full speed. as you were animation designers at lionhead some animated spectators would be easy to program, aren´t they? and for the faces please use all of the lfs racers pictures so everyone can be in the game. thank you! //off topic
peace, mo
on the last screenshot there is a traffic light visible - does that mean the new westhill track will have a functioning light system for the yellow and red flags?
off topic// as there recently was the suggestion to fill the grandstands on the tracks with people to make some more racing day athmosphere - scavier please have a look at how the audience in grid autosport looks. there are lots of animated people everywhere and most notably right next to the track, leaning over the barriers and waving and cheering along. this might be only a small detail, but it makes a great impression of life on the sides of the track even when racing along with full speed. as you were animation designers at lionhead some animated spectators would be easy to program, aren´t they? and for the faces please use all of the lfs racers pictures so everyone can be in the game. thank you! //off topic
peace, mo
screenshots may not show that much of a difference, as they are static snapshots of just one frame.
the effect of v-sync is best seen in an actual moving scene, as the overall picture gets a little clearer and more "steady" due to two factors: first the fixed framerates do give the impression of a more steady picture (in some games the framerates do wildly variate from scene to scene and sometimes depending on the angle of view so the framerates are massively jumping up and down) and secondly, sometimes more obvious is the picture tearing that occurs with v-sync off when the top half of the picture rendered shows not the same picture in the lower half, because that picture is one frame behind. this can lead to jagged edges on fences and on the road and is more irritating to the driver. how noticable that effect is depends on how much variation there really is on your particular computer with that particular game, but tearing is often good to see in racing games, because of the road stretching out over the middle of the screen and constantly "moving".
peace, mo
the effect of v-sync is best seen in an actual moving scene, as the overall picture gets a little clearer and more "steady" due to two factors: first the fixed framerates do give the impression of a more steady picture (in some games the framerates do wildly variate from scene to scene and sometimes depending on the angle of view so the framerates are massively jumping up and down) and secondly, sometimes more obvious is the picture tearing that occurs with v-sync off when the top half of the picture rendered shows not the same picture in the lower half, because that picture is one frame behind. this can lead to jagged edges on fences and on the road and is more irritating to the driver. how noticable that effect is depends on how much variation there really is on your particular computer with that particular game, but tearing is often good to see in racing games, because of the road stretching out over the middle of the screen and constantly "moving".
peace, mo
setup lfs on mac with wine or winebottler?
hello everybody,
since there are just a few posts of people who un lfs successfully on a mac using wine or winebottler, but no in detail setup guide i open this track to seek for any advice you fellow racers might have.
on my own computer i managed to get lfs f6 running with both, wine or winebottler, and it is running great with only some small problems. still it would be great to have an step by step userguide.
how to best setup lfs on a mac - the easy way - the best way - so the user community can grow with a lot of mac users.
- what do you think works better? directly thru wine or "wine bottled", is there a difference at all?
- which installation is better? and what winetricks should be used? what about directx?
- what about patches? i managed to setup lfs 0.6f, but not been able to patch the test patch.
- controllers? i played with keyboard/mouse and i tried a playstation2 controller with usb adapter and both worked good. have yet to try my wheel g25 and see if there is forcefeedback. seaching the net brought mixed results of success with controllers - what have you tried to get controllers and force going?
- when i run lfs the screen flickers a lot, but if i change vsync either on or off the flickering is gone. sometimes the flickering comes back when switching from and to the menues, but can be cured by switching vsync to the now opposite direction. frame rates are sky high so also many older macs have a good chance to run lfs with wine. or i can go to my exposee hot corner and back to lfs then the flickering is also gone.
- when i start lfs there are a lot of red "can not ..." messages on the loading screen. and then the driver suits do not show, but helmets are... in the cars and tracks i could not see any missing textures so i don´t know what exactly is wrong.
so if you know anything about installing, running or optimizing lfs on osx, or on linux in general please feel free to comment and add helpful hints for a great lfs racing experience for people who only have a mac to play.
thank you,
mo
since there are just a few posts of people who un lfs successfully on a mac using wine or winebottler, but no in detail setup guide i open this track to seek for any advice you fellow racers might have.
on my own computer i managed to get lfs f6 running with both, wine or winebottler, and it is running great with only some small problems. still it would be great to have an step by step userguide.
how to best setup lfs on a mac - the easy way - the best way - so the user community can grow with a lot of mac users.
- what do you think works better? directly thru wine or "wine bottled", is there a difference at all?
- which installation is better? and what winetricks should be used? what about directx?
- what about patches? i managed to setup lfs 0.6f, but not been able to patch the test patch.
- controllers? i played with keyboard/mouse and i tried a playstation2 controller with usb adapter and both worked good. have yet to try my wheel g25 and see if there is forcefeedback. seaching the net brought mixed results of success with controllers - what have you tried to get controllers and force going?
- when i run lfs the screen flickers a lot, but if i change vsync either on or off the flickering is gone. sometimes the flickering comes back when switching from and to the menues, but can be cured by switching vsync to the now opposite direction. frame rates are sky high so also many older macs have a good chance to run lfs with wine. or i can go to my exposee hot corner and back to lfs then the flickering is also gone.
- when i start lfs there are a lot of red "can not ..." messages on the loading screen. and then the driver suits do not show, but helmets are... in the cars and tracks i could not see any missing textures so i don´t know what exactly is wrong.
so if you know anything about installing, running or optimizing lfs on osx, or on linux in general please feel free to comment and add helpful hints for a great lfs racing experience for people who only have a mac to play.
thank you,
mo
Is there any plans for lfs to support the Samsung Gear VR Innovator Edition
like described here: http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/introducing-the-samsung-gear-vr-innovator-edition/ ?
or would that device also work right out of the box with the current dk1 and dk2 lfs patch version?
peace, mo
like described here: http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/introducing-the-samsung-gear-vr-innovator-edition/ ?
or would that device also work right out of the box with the current dk1 and dk2 lfs patch version?
peace, mo
why do you just rofl at my questions instead of sharing your superior knowledge whats so funny about thinking that it should indeed be the duty of the operating system to communicate between programs and the computer hardware?
if it wasn´t then we could have programs that directly boot the computer hardware to get rid of that os overhead and side problems like load balancing or security flaws...
peace, mo
why is everyone thinking the program developers should make their code multithreaded, when it should be the duty of the os to distribute the load across the available cores? why is windows not able to just use all the processing and graphics power the machine is offering? i mean the days when programmers could direct adress hardware are long over with all that abstracting layers we have now, so there shold be a way windows is distributing a single tread program over more than one core - how is that anyways with hypertreading and virtual cores?
if there are people that own faster machines then lfs should give them the freedom to just use hi-res graphics and more that one screen with silly frame rates without forcing others do buy a new computer just to be able to play, so scalability of the graphics should be possible via hi-res texture mods.
but keep on the good work scavier - better to support a whole lot of middle class computers than to always just optimize for the latest and greatest.
peace, mo
if there are people that own faster machines then lfs should give them the freedom to just use hi-res graphics and more that one screen with silly frame rates without forcing others do buy a new computer just to be able to play, so scalability of the graphics should be possible via hi-res texture mods.
but keep on the good work scavier - better to support a whole lot of middle class computers than to always just optimize for the latest and greatest.
peace, mo
the attached picture in this post look like there are not many small parts of connecting roads needed to form a really big driveable area.
it would be great if that could happen to get a big environment for setting a whole lot of different courses with barriers and cones.
peace, mo
thank you for this update scavier! finally things are progressing again...
regarding the public track and / or car editor, maybe consider my suggestion of using a part of this forum for preselection and / or voting on which tracks and cars are of a good enough quality to be then passed on to you guys for final quality testing and approval?
this will be definately better than an open distribution of all user made tracks and cars, because then there might be only a whole lot of inferior material released like on some other platforms, where it can be very hard for the players to find the good cars and tracks.
so better only allow the best cars and tracks and not go for the mass here.
we lived with so few cars and tracks over the last years that one new car and one new track per month that are user made will be an overwhelming amount of new experience. so that would be great.
peace, mo
regarding the public track and / or car editor, maybe consider my suggestion of using a part of this forum for preselection and / or voting on which tracks and cars are of a good enough quality to be then passed on to you guys for final quality testing and approval?
this will be definately better than an open distribution of all user made tracks and cars, because then there might be only a whole lot of inferior material released like on some other platforms, where it can be very hard for the players to find the good cars and tracks.
so better only allow the best cars and tracks and not go for the mass here.
we lived with so few cars and tracks over the last years that one new car and one new track per month that are user made will be an overwhelming amount of new experience. so that would be great.
peace, mo
Last edited by molocco, .
Reason : typo
in my opinion most of the frustration amongst the players come from the fact that there are indeed two cars and one track that has been finished, but didn´t get released due to reasons that are hard to understand.
the lx8 and the vws are finished and driveable and the reasons to not release them ("undriveable / hard to control" in the case of the lx8 and "not close enough to reality" in the case of the vws) are understandable from the perfectionism viewpoint of the devs, but are hard to understand for the people. even more so because if the lx8 is "hard to drive" and was even more so with s1 physics, that is no real reason not to release it, because some players like that challenge.
also the rockingham circuit is finished and as i know still playable on rigs at the actual real rockingham race circuit.
so the people are most frustrated that they got these things shown in the past and yet not got them released for the time it takes to finish the new physics, as we need to learn to drive anyways when the new physics are released.
another point is the long promised new interiors for the gtr class cars, at least those should be done long ago and be released.
so if that old promises were not fullfilled until this day it is quite understandable that many players have lost the faith in the devs.
but now scavier have surfaced from the dead once again and said that they are back on the development track after a period of absence. that should give us some hope that at least some new things will come to the surface and be released.
another little track that can be finished with not so much work is the "industrial area" in south city which should also give us some new combos and corners to drive.
so keep the hope alive and bring some more positive momentum back to this community as it is a circular feedback system - you know because of too much negative comments scavier decided not to announce anything and new players are just reading negative comments on this forum and then maybe play another game without knowing what they will be missing.
it is still hard to understand that the devs do not want any help whatsoever even if there are some really talented people out there that would love to contribute to the universe of lfs to make it not only the "best" driving simulator, but also the one that covers the biggest variety of cars and tracks that all are at a very high quality. so not just opening lfs for mods as this would open the door for inferior quality, but some kind of moderated process maybe with the help of this forum, to do first quality checks and preselection. and then pass the best cars and tracks on to scavier to finish and implement into lfs. i also don´t like subscription based business models, but a modular approach would be a good idea for lfs as well.
maybe in the future it will be possible to drive anywhere with tracks rendered on the fly based on open streetmaps and streetview?
because the ultimate driving simulator spanning all classes of vehicles and their racing tracks is what scaviers vision was in the first place. and i still want that vision to become real, because there is nothing compareable out there and it is sad to see some of that potential wasted.
peace, mo
the lx8 and the vws are finished and driveable and the reasons to not release them ("undriveable / hard to control" in the case of the lx8 and "not close enough to reality" in the case of the vws) are understandable from the perfectionism viewpoint of the devs, but are hard to understand for the people. even more so because if the lx8 is "hard to drive" and was even more so with s1 physics, that is no real reason not to release it, because some players like that challenge.
also the rockingham circuit is finished and as i know still playable on rigs at the actual real rockingham race circuit.
so the people are most frustrated that they got these things shown in the past and yet not got them released for the time it takes to finish the new physics, as we need to learn to drive anyways when the new physics are released.
another point is the long promised new interiors for the gtr class cars, at least those should be done long ago and be released.
so if that old promises were not fullfilled until this day it is quite understandable that many players have lost the faith in the devs.
but now scavier have surfaced from the dead once again and said that they are back on the development track after a period of absence. that should give us some hope that at least some new things will come to the surface and be released.
another little track that can be finished with not so much work is the "industrial area" in south city which should also give us some new combos and corners to drive.
so keep the hope alive and bring some more positive momentum back to this community as it is a circular feedback system - you know because of too much negative comments scavier decided not to announce anything and new players are just reading negative comments on this forum and then maybe play another game without knowing what they will be missing.
it is still hard to understand that the devs do not want any help whatsoever even if there are some really talented people out there that would love to contribute to the universe of lfs to make it not only the "best" driving simulator, but also the one that covers the biggest variety of cars and tracks that all are at a very high quality. so not just opening lfs for mods as this would open the door for inferior quality, but some kind of moderated process maybe with the help of this forum, to do first quality checks and preselection. and then pass the best cars and tracks on to scavier to finish and implement into lfs. i also don´t like subscription based business models, but a modular approach would be a good idea for lfs as well.
maybe in the future it will be possible to drive anywhere with tracks rendered on the fly based on open streetmaps and streetview?
because the ultimate driving simulator spanning all classes of vehicles and their racing tracks is what scaviers vision was in the first place. and i still want that vision to become real, because there is nothing compareable out there and it is sad to see some of that potential wasted.
peace, mo
yes i created this thread for a humble and polite question and a discussion according to forum etiquette where everyone is free to commit his opinions to the tread topic!
what you and some others are doing is polluting and derailing that subject and the polite discussion between people who are really interested in participating.
while i don´t report this behaviour to any mods, but instead also politely ask for not doing that, you don´t stop but even insult me.
so please @mods: clean this serious thread of those unrelated comments and decide if some members need a ban from the forums for some time so they can think about how and when to write something that contributes to the thread subject and when to just shat the fack up!
people like you are the reason why scavier does not talk to us like in former years and you are also the reason why new players coming to the forum think that it is all just moaning and bitching. :irked:
and now back to topic and please contribute something constructive or just say nothing.
peace, mo
can you please stop fighting personal wars in my thread!? 
this tread was created to have a polite discussion and a nice approach to scavier to ask them nicely if they can give us some little surprise patch for the easter holidays as they did in the past.
so please, if you do not want to contribute to this then make your own thread to fight about personal viewpoints on the quality of lfs.
people that drive threads into a whole other direction with unrelated personal fights instead of contributing something positive to the thread subject are the main course of the degradiation of this forum and the lfs community. the quality of the physics in lfs has absolutely nothing to do with the subject and goal of this thread - if you want to discuss this then go elsewhere!
support instead of oppose!
thank you!
peace, mo
this tread was created to have a polite discussion and a nice approach to scavier to ask them nicely if they can give us some little surprise patch for the easter holidays as they did in the past.
so please, if you do not want to contribute to this then make your own thread to fight about personal viewpoints on the quality of lfs.
people that drive threads into a whole other direction with unrelated personal fights instead of contributing something positive to the thread subject are the main course of the degradiation of this forum and the lfs community. the quality of the physics in lfs has absolutely nothing to do with the subject and goal of this thread - if you want to discuss this then go elsewhere!
support instead of oppose!
thank you!
peace, mo
new patch for easter holidays?
dear scavier,
a few years ago you used to surprise the community with nice patches for the holidays so we got something new and exciting to play with.
please revive that tradition now that you are back on the developing path.
the community is so hungry for just something, that we will be glad to recieve anything new, even if it is not really new, like one of the cars or tracks that are floating in limbo for so long now.
if all that is too much work, then think about the option of mirrored tracks, so we have some new corners in opposite directions to drive on.
at one time you complained that the top treads in the forum, talking about lack of content or unreleased cars, are causing a bad reputation for lfs, because they scare new racers off.
so don´t you think any new release of something new for every racer, not just for the oculus early adopters, will cause a big splash of positve momentum for the community and for lfs over all?
think about a main forum where the top treads are praising your work again instead of moaning and bickering because of the awful long waiting time?
many players are just asking "are we there yet?", so if we "are not there yet" these people need something positive to do while waiting.
thank you so much for creating the most convincing racing simulator, but please do something against this slow degradiation of the community.
:eclipsee_
peace, mo
a few years ago you used to surprise the community with nice patches for the holidays so we got something new and exciting to play with.
please revive that tradition now that you are back on the developing path.
the community is so hungry for just something, that we will be glad to recieve anything new, even if it is not really new, like one of the cars or tracks that are floating in limbo for so long now.
if all that is too much work, then think about the option of mirrored tracks, so we have some new corners in opposite directions to drive on.
at one time you complained that the top treads in the forum, talking about lack of content or unreleased cars, are causing a bad reputation for lfs, because they scare new racers off.
so don´t you think any new release of something new for every racer, not just for the oculus early adopters, will cause a big splash of positve momentum for the community and for lfs over all?
think about a main forum where the top treads are praising your work again instead of moaning and bickering because of the awful long waiting time?
many players are just asking "are we there yet?", so if we "are not there yet" these people need something positive to do while waiting.
thank you so much for creating the most convincing racing simulator, but please do something against this slow degradiation of the community.
:eclipsee_
peace, mo
here is another video of a caterham with a real v8 (driving starts around 1:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_fsjeJViSo
again only slight power oversteer, with no wings and only semislicks...
there are a whole lot of caterham / lotus super 7 out there with engines way over 250 hp, some even go over 500 hp with a car weight of under 600 kg!
and there are real people in the real world driving those things, so who can be harmed if we try to tame that beast inside our most loved simulation?
and cars of that type do exist in other game platforms, so even with the current physics of lfs those should have the best feeling and thus be best controllable in lfs as it is as opposed to all the other game platforms! and all this with the option to get even better in the future!
and one more suggestion at the end: why not just mirror all the lfs tracks to expand the driveable configurations? even if this is highly unrealistic (but then again - what is reality on a fictional track?) it offers the fastest way to some "new feeling" corners, as it does not need any new track or textures at all. just like the "open track" configurations, that should be an easy one to do.
@scavier: do you see how hard i try to pave ways for you to finally give something to the community without having to spend to much time on it?
or do you want some new competition on the sim market? then maybe i have to look elsewhere for some developers who really want to fullfill your dream and build the ultimative modular virtual racing platform? and by that i do not mean to find some shiny graphics and lots of new content - no, the first and foremost goal then would be to beat the lfs engine physics capabilites and get the graphics engine to display the track as smooth as lfs does.
you see? many of the groundbraking new developments in any area came from people who were not longer satisfied by how the status quo was or how things progressed, so they decided to try it on their own. (does that sound familiar to you scavier?) so it would be really sad if lfs development comes to a state when this will happen as the devs should know better, because they went down that exact same road in the past.
but as i still have a lot of faith in scavier to finally get their act together and progress in lfs development i won´t do that! in fact i would hate this to happen, because then ten years of lfs development would be wasted!
and now i will go out and do some real racing with a real car on a real racetrack, because there is such a lovely weather here in germany today that you just can´t justify to play a stalled game in a dark room...
peace, mo
again only slight power oversteer, with no wings and only semislicks...
there are a whole lot of caterham / lotus super 7 out there with engines way over 250 hp, some even go over 500 hp with a car weight of under 600 kg!
and there are real people in the real world driving those things, so who can be harmed if we try to tame that beast inside our most loved simulation?
and cars of that type do exist in other game platforms, so even with the current physics of lfs those should have the best feeling and thus be best controllable in lfs as it is as opposed to all the other game platforms! and all this with the option to get even better in the future!
and one more suggestion at the end: why not just mirror all the lfs tracks to expand the driveable configurations? even if this is highly unrealistic (but then again - what is reality on a fictional track?) it offers the fastest way to some "new feeling" corners, as it does not need any new track or textures at all. just like the "open track" configurations, that should be an easy one to do.
@scavier: do you see how hard i try to pave ways for you to finally give something to the community without having to spend to much time on it?
or do you want some new competition on the sim market? then maybe i have to look elsewhere for some developers who really want to fullfill your dream and build the ultimative modular virtual racing platform? and by that i do not mean to find some shiny graphics and lots of new content - no, the first and foremost goal then would be to beat the lfs engine physics capabilites and get the graphics engine to display the track as smooth as lfs does.
you see? many of the groundbraking new developments in any area came from people who were not longer satisfied by how the status quo was or how things progressed, so they decided to try it on their own. (does that sound familiar to you scavier?) so it would be really sad if lfs development comes to a state when this will happen as the devs should know better, because they went down that exact same road in the past.
but as i still have a lot of faith in scavier to finally get their act together and progress in lfs development i won´t do that! in fact i would hate this to happen, because then ten years of lfs development would be wasted!
and now i will go out and do some real racing with a real car on a real racetrack, because there is such a lovely weather here in germany today that you just can´t justify to play a stalled game in a dark room...
peace, mo
here is an article about the rst caterham v8: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreview ... views/49734/caterham.html
this car has no "real v8" but a v8 made of two bike engines.
here is a video of a caterham v8 in motion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNDGx8NNP4
does not look to be uncontrollable, but has a tendency to power oversteer...
which is no surprise considering the power to weight ratio...
and as an addition to my open letter from above - the wish for something new to drive is just a hint at the developers that they already have some nearly finished things in the drawer that they might give to us while we are waiting for a really big update.
those cars were nice to play with for a while, but the thing needed the most is something "new" to drive on, like that nearly completed "industrial area" in south city.
but i´m afraid to ask for new tracks, because if the new tire physics are done, then maybe scavier notices that the tires are in contact with the road surface and that surface must be also simulated physically correct to reflect the connection between the tire and the road...
so what about road physics? what about different kinds of tarmac? what about gravel? what about dirt and rubber buildup? and finally, how does that all change if the track gets wet?
so the new tire physics alone will be a big step forward to a realistic feeling of the tires, but then we need the road physics updated as well... and the chassis flex, and more aerodynamics that change if parts of the car get damaged or fall off... so there is a lot to do to get to that goal, but let´s not forget the fun on the way there!
so again scavier: how do you think to get to that goal? and why is it soooo hard for you to accept any help that is offered? if it is just because of your proprietary tools and the structure of the lfs engine that makes it hard for others to contribute to your program? why not let the people do at least a little bit of modding, coupled with really tight (forum) preselection?
so the people can make cars and tracks and then submit them to a special part of the forum where a really strong preselection is done (maybe coupled with a voting from the community) and then the top track and the top voted car only will be passed on to be reviewed by the devs. this will take way less of your time than to develop a car or a track yourself while maintaining the high quality standard of lfs.
depending on the abilities of the community we could get one new car or one new track once a month, but we would also be glad to do this only once as a "forum special edition" to finally get something new to play with.
peace, mo
this car has no "real v8" but a v8 made of two bike engines.
here is a video of a caterham v8 in motion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNDGx8NNP4
does not look to be uncontrollable, but has a tendency to power oversteer...
which is no surprise considering the power to weight ratio...
and as an addition to my open letter from above - the wish for something new to drive is just a hint at the developers that they already have some nearly finished things in the drawer that they might give to us while we are waiting for a really big update.
those cars were nice to play with for a while, but the thing needed the most is something "new" to drive on, like that nearly completed "industrial area" in south city.
but i´m afraid to ask for new tracks, because if the new tire physics are done, then maybe scavier notices that the tires are in contact with the road surface and that surface must be also simulated physically correct to reflect the connection between the tire and the road...
so what about road physics? what about different kinds of tarmac? what about gravel? what about dirt and rubber buildup? and finally, how does that all change if the track gets wet?
so the new tire physics alone will be a big step forward to a realistic feeling of the tires, but then we need the road physics updated as well... and the chassis flex, and more aerodynamics that change if parts of the car get damaged or fall off... so there is a lot to do to get to that goal, but let´s not forget the fun on the way there!
so again scavier: how do you think to get to that goal? and why is it soooo hard for you to accept any help that is offered? if it is just because of your proprietary tools and the structure of the lfs engine that makes it hard for others to contribute to your program? why not let the people do at least a little bit of modding, coupled with really tight (forum) preselection?
so the people can make cars and tracks and then submit them to a special part of the forum where a really strong preselection is done (maybe coupled with a voting from the community) and then the top track and the top voted car only will be passed on to be reviewed by the devs. this will take way less of your time than to develop a car or a track yourself while maintaining the high quality standard of lfs.
depending on the abilities of the community we could get one new car or one new track once a month, but we would also be glad to do this only once as a "forum special edition" to finally get something new to play with.
peace, mo
dear scavier,
people are waiting desperately for some years now to get any new car to drive with the wonderful (current!) physics of lfs.
you managed to make at least two cars that you showed to the community but then refused to publicly release them for reasons that are at least "a bit strange", because they will not take away the fun untill better physics are ready.
for months and months now the top treads in the forum ask for those cars and yet you choose to ignore that. why is that so?
what would it hurt to release the vws and the lx8 (with slick tires) to the community to have some fun, while waiting on "the next big thing"?
to the most of us it hurts way more being constantly ignored by a once wide open dev team that wanted to make the best racing simulator possible, together with the people in the longest alpha/beta stage of any modern game. did you realize how the community came to live for a short while, when you announced a new test patch, even if just a small fraction of users have any benefit from oculus development right now?
we all accept your way of working and your work life balance is important, so you can stay healthy and happy to do some more great simulation work in the future, but please do give us something to bridge the gap to he next big release.
being independant is a great thing (do not let faccebuuk buy lfs!!!), but being stubborn and constantly ignoring the most urgent wishes of the community is just not good! maybe you end up with a great product, but with no people to play it in the end...
why do i still keep writing this? maybe because i care a lot for lfs and its bigger vision to become a virtual driving platform for all kinds of vehicles and i am afraid that the devs do not realize the level of frustration their strange behaviour in the last years have caused?
even an independant producer is dependant on his customers - a game is depending on it players, so there has to be some respect in both ways.
if the vws and the lx8 are so bad compared to the cars that are already in lfs, why not just give them to us "for a limited time"? to bridge the gap to the new physics and s3 content release, just include them to the test patches and communicate that fact openly and proactive, so later noone can complain if those two cars vanish again.
if the s3 release rocks with new physics, new tracks, new cars (?) and the long awaited interiors for some cars, then nobody will be sad if those two cars are left out of the game again.
just think about it, will you? and if you decide to not do it and not be nice to the community who has supported you all the years then maybe it is time to leave you alone, even if this would be really sad. and i will continue playing with lfs as it is right now, because there still is nothing better out there (besides richard burns rally untill the famous lfs rally pack will surface).
do you really care if we stay or if we quit playing lfs? if your goals to make the best racing simulator are true, then you should care about every single one of us... we are in this together...
and coming from a marketing point of view: it is way harder to convince a customer that has been frustrated and turned his back on you, then to get new customers that get impressed by the features of the product. so please don´t do the same mistake as for instance the mobile carriers do by stupildy just treating "new" customers with all kinds of offerings, but not treating long time customers with the same respect and gratitude.
peace, mo
people are waiting desperately for some years now to get any new car to drive with the wonderful (current!) physics of lfs.
you managed to make at least two cars that you showed to the community but then refused to publicly release them for reasons that are at least "a bit strange", because they will not take away the fun untill better physics are ready.
for months and months now the top treads in the forum ask for those cars and yet you choose to ignore that. why is that so?
what would it hurt to release the vws and the lx8 (with slick tires) to the community to have some fun, while waiting on "the next big thing"?
to the most of us it hurts way more being constantly ignored by a once wide open dev team that wanted to make the best racing simulator possible, together with the people in the longest alpha/beta stage of any modern game. did you realize how the community came to live for a short while, when you announced a new test patch, even if just a small fraction of users have any benefit from oculus development right now?
we all accept your way of working and your work life balance is important, so you can stay healthy and happy to do some more great simulation work in the future, but please do give us something to bridge the gap to he next big release.
being independant is a great thing (do not let faccebuuk buy lfs!!!), but being stubborn and constantly ignoring the most urgent wishes of the community is just not good! maybe you end up with a great product, but with no people to play it in the end...
why do i still keep writing this? maybe because i care a lot for lfs and its bigger vision to become a virtual driving platform for all kinds of vehicles and i am afraid that the devs do not realize the level of frustration their strange behaviour in the last years have caused?
even an independant producer is dependant on his customers - a game is depending on it players, so there has to be some respect in both ways.
if the vws and the lx8 are so bad compared to the cars that are already in lfs, why not just give them to us "for a limited time"? to bridge the gap to the new physics and s3 content release, just include them to the test patches and communicate that fact openly and proactive, so later noone can complain if those two cars vanish again.
if the s3 release rocks with new physics, new tracks, new cars (?) and the long awaited interiors for some cars, then nobody will be sad if those two cars are left out of the game again.
just think about it, will you? and if you decide to not do it and not be nice to the community who has supported you all the years then maybe it is time to leave you alone, even if this would be really sad. and i will continue playing with lfs as it is right now, because there still is nothing better out there (besides richard burns rally untill the famous lfs rally pack will surface).
do you really care if we stay or if we quit playing lfs? if your goals to make the best racing simulator are true, then you should care about every single one of us... we are in this together...
and coming from a marketing point of view: it is way harder to convince a customer that has been frustrated and turned his back on you, then to get new customers that get impressed by the features of the product. so please don´t do the same mistake as for instance the mobile carriers do by stupildy just treating "new" customers with all kinds of offerings, but not treating long time customers with the same respect and gratitude.
peace, mo
we keep talking about the lx8, because we are desperate somehow i think and would be glad to play a bit with this "absurd" car.
maybe it has way to much power to weight, but this can also be fun...
maybe not in circuit racing, but in other areas of motorsports like drifting or just for pure fun?
like sometime ago when we were waiting for something, we played with the old s1 for a few days and scavier even gave us a new exe wich could find the new master server again. there we raced just for fun in an old version!
or victors challenges in the parking area...
so not only new content is what drives the community - it is just the wish for something different for a while to have some fun and different kicks.
not every addition to lfs has to be for closed circuit racing only.
lfs provides the most convincing force feedback and realism feeling of all sims out there and so it is only natural that many of the players will use it for a variety of purposes.
some people do not race, but play all by themself only for the fun of car control on all possible pieces of track they can set a virtual wheel on.
lfs was, and is promotet and labeled "online racing simulator" and so racing will remain a big part of it. however scavier once had the vision to create a racing simulator for many, if not all racing classes out there in the world.
the world is changing and so we have the opportunity to motivate scavier to hold on to their greater vision and use lfs as the core of a modular virtual racing or motorsport world.
in a few years from now computer and internet power will allow translation of open access world map material into realtime racetrack creation. so it will be possible to drive on any place in the world instantly, because the sim engine will use public data from the internet to convincinly enough render any street on the fly.
you know? lfs-world ?
peace, mo
maybe it has way to much power to weight, but this can also be fun...
maybe not in circuit racing, but in other areas of motorsports like drifting or just for pure fun?
like sometime ago when we were waiting for something, we played with the old s1 for a few days and scavier even gave us a new exe wich could find the new master server again. there we raced just for fun in an old version!
or victors challenges in the parking area...
so not only new content is what drives the community - it is just the wish for something different for a while to have some fun and different kicks.
not every addition to lfs has to be for closed circuit racing only.
lfs provides the most convincing force feedback and realism feeling of all sims out there and so it is only natural that many of the players will use it for a variety of purposes.
some people do not race, but play all by themself only for the fun of car control on all possible pieces of track they can set a virtual wheel on.
lfs was, and is promotet and labeled "online racing simulator" and so racing will remain a big part of it. however scavier once had the vision to create a racing simulator for many, if not all racing classes out there in the world.
the world is changing and so we have the opportunity to motivate scavier to hold on to their greater vision and use lfs as the core of a modular virtual racing or motorsport world.
in a few years from now computer and internet power will allow translation of open access world map material into realtime racetrack creation. so it will be possible to drive on any place in the world instantly, because the sim engine will use public data from the internet to convincinly enough render any street on the fly.
you know? lfs-world ?
peace, mo
the real sad part is: basicly it is all there (or was at some point), but now the devs just fail to get it together. we all know that there is a fully developed and working new track (rockingham) and there are at least two cars that are also working (sort of...) in the vws and the lx8. and there is that "industrial area" in south city where only some components are missing to to open up that fences and add at least four new layouts to that track. (remember the last track update to sc? just the opening of that schikane route gave us new opportunities and layouts and that "industrial area is even bigger...)
there are people who already drove the vws and it was even good enough then to base a competition on that modell where you could win an actual real vw scirocco!
so why the devs could not release those three things (or at least one of them) is beyond everything i can understand - everybody, even the devs must notice the state of the community and the hunger for content.
i accept that scavier are aiming high to get everything perfect before release, but at some time you have to make a compromise, even it is just for a period of time.
what will it hurt if those track and the cars are released as "beta interims versions" just to make the community happy again and shorten the wait for the "big" updates.
sure there will be some people complaining when the cars behaviour changes on the new physics, but this will immanently happen to all cars in lfs anyways. but i think it will cure so much frustration and will be a great sign from the devs that they acknowledge the feelings of the community that stands to them and still patiently waits for good news.
as long as the community can fight like we do there is still some passion left for this game. when the people really start to give a shit - this is where the devs have to be careful, because getting a frustrated customer back is one of the hardest things in sales.
in the past we did everything we possibly could: we begged, we prayed, we cursed, we did petitions, we did "longest waiting for a patch treads", we threatened to leave, we offer all kinds of help, but to no avail...
...maybe scavier have the "genius illness" which makes them good at their particular special intrests, but makes them fail in some other areas like community relations.
why is it so hard for scavier to once again do the kind of community relations like in the past? no one will bite you if you just try! but if nothing happens the situation is just getting worse and worse and it will be even harder then to fix this mess.
if the devs have any rough estimate when "real new content" will be ready for release, then please fill the gap until then with releasing the already finished content to make the community happy. people said more often than not that money is not the real problem, many of us will be happy to buy another licence stage. just release something as s3 and then continue to develop content and wheather day/night and so on in s4, s5, s6.
no one forces you to stick to your original plans that s3 should be the final stage, when there is so much missing from the original concept to simulate all motor racing classes and terrains.
can we as the community manage to create one real big tread that is just positive? no arguing, no bitching, no fighting... just pure love and support for the devs great overall concept and realisation of lfs as it is today, celebrating our journey over more than a decade of sim racing and push the egos and hearts of all of the scavier empire to new hights to motivate them to make the right moves and decisions!!!
to make the best racing simulator in the world you have to make it!
you know? to finish first you have to finish first...
go, go, go SCAVIER!!! :clapclap:
peace, mo
there are people who already drove the vws and it was even good enough then to base a competition on that modell where you could win an actual real vw scirocco!
so why the devs could not release those three things (or at least one of them) is beyond everything i can understand - everybody, even the devs must notice the state of the community and the hunger for content.
i accept that scavier are aiming high to get everything perfect before release, but at some time you have to make a compromise, even it is just for a period of time.
what will it hurt if those track and the cars are released as "beta interims versions" just to make the community happy again and shorten the wait for the "big" updates.
sure there will be some people complaining when the cars behaviour changes on the new physics, but this will immanently happen to all cars in lfs anyways. but i think it will cure so much frustration and will be a great sign from the devs that they acknowledge the feelings of the community that stands to them and still patiently waits for good news.
as long as the community can fight like we do there is still some passion left for this game. when the people really start to give a shit - this is where the devs have to be careful, because getting a frustrated customer back is one of the hardest things in sales.
in the past we did everything we possibly could: we begged, we prayed, we cursed, we did petitions, we did "longest waiting for a patch treads", we threatened to leave, we offer all kinds of help, but to no avail...
...maybe scavier have the "genius illness" which makes them good at their particular special intrests, but makes them fail in some other areas like community relations.
why is it so hard for scavier to once again do the kind of community relations like in the past? no one will bite you if you just try! but if nothing happens the situation is just getting worse and worse and it will be even harder then to fix this mess.
if the devs have any rough estimate when "real new content" will be ready for release, then please fill the gap until then with releasing the already finished content to make the community happy. people said more often than not that money is not the real problem, many of us will be happy to buy another licence stage. just release something as s3 and then continue to develop content and wheather day/night and so on in s4, s5, s6.
no one forces you to stick to your original plans that s3 should be the final stage, when there is so much missing from the original concept to simulate all motor racing classes and terrains.
can we as the community manage to create one real big tread that is just positive? no arguing, no bitching, no fighting... just pure love and support for the devs great overall concept and realisation of lfs as it is today, celebrating our journey over more than a decade of sim racing and push the egos and hearts of all of the scavier empire to new hights to motivate them to make the right moves and decisions!!!
to make the best racing simulator in the world you have to make it!
you know? to finish first you have to finish first...
go, go, go SCAVIER!!! :clapclap:
peace, mo
this ages old argument of the lx8 simply being too difficult to drive is still not a valid reason to me not to let the community play with it.
this car is difficult to drive if you floor the throttle like stupid, but this is not bad but only a challenge for the driver.
and in a race everybody has the same hard time controling that beast, which in turn shows who has the most sensitive throttle foot and who can drive right on the edge without tripping over.
nobody says anything about the first generation porsche 911 turbo being "undriveable" in the game platforms that offer this car, but the reality is that this was one of the most difficult cars to control if you lost the rear end - and being a rear engine design with lots of weight at the back - this happens very, very suddenly. so if we, the players, can live with difficult cars in other games, why not give us the chance to try for ourselves if we can handle the lx8.
as a good example you can take the loading screens in "richard burns rally", where they state: "even if your car can easily go 160mph on straights, that does not mean you have to floor the throttle all the time. if you find yourself crashing all the time try starting a bit slower and gradually increase your speed over time".
and when the new physics are finally being released we all have to learn to drive again anyways, so please devs, take this finished part of lfs out of the recycler and release it as an interims gift to the community to have something to play with for a few weeks. thank you!
peace, mo
this car is difficult to drive if you floor the throttle like stupid, but this is not bad but only a challenge for the driver.
and in a race everybody has the same hard time controling that beast, which in turn shows who has the most sensitive throttle foot and who can drive right on the edge without tripping over.
nobody says anything about the first generation porsche 911 turbo being "undriveable" in the game platforms that offer this car, but the reality is that this was one of the most difficult cars to control if you lost the rear end - and being a rear engine design with lots of weight at the back - this happens very, very suddenly. so if we, the players, can live with difficult cars in other games, why not give us the chance to try for ourselves if we can handle the lx8.
as a good example you can take the loading screens in "richard burns rally", where they state: "even if your car can easily go 160mph on straights, that does not mean you have to floor the throttle all the time. if you find yourself crashing all the time try starting a bit slower and gradually increase your speed over time".
and when the new physics are finally being released we all have to learn to drive again anyways, so please devs, take this finished part of lfs out of the recycler and release it as an interims gift to the community to have something to play with for a few weeks. thank you!
peace, mo
well i tried dozens of different ai combinations over the years, with mixed cars, mixed classes and mixed setups but the ai got worse since they are not learning over time any longer.
in a mixed field with slower cars at the front they will crash even before corner one but then will race without overtaking till the end and some of them will crash while pitting. and they seem to be aware of the other ai, but not of the human player as they crash in the breakzones of nearly each corner.
the ai of the older lfs versions was a bit better, but now they are just good to be driving obstacles.
in the time before lfs scawen worked on a racing game "total immersion racing" wich had a very inovative ai system at the time. those ai drivers had some sort of "personality" and if you pushed on them, some got frightened and drove more defensive form that point in time and some got more aggressive and tried to attack you in the next corners.
now i do not know how much of that is intellectual property of the studio that made "total immersion racing" but the concepts and the behaviour of that ai was really good.
lfs might be a online racing simulator, but having a good ai can be nice for some people using them for training purposes or to fill up a racing field with only a few human players. also it is nice for those people living in the wrong timezones so they struggle to find populated servers.
updating the ai is definately needed, but it should be low in priority and may be done after the tire physics, because the ai also depends on that physics, and after a content update and maybe even after a day/night/weather update because all those updates are of more use to the average player.
peace, mo
in a mixed field with slower cars at the front they will crash even before corner one but then will race without overtaking till the end and some of them will crash while pitting. and they seem to be aware of the other ai, but not of the human player as they crash in the breakzones of nearly each corner.
the ai of the older lfs versions was a bit better, but now they are just good to be driving obstacles.
in the time before lfs scawen worked on a racing game "total immersion racing" wich had a very inovative ai system at the time. those ai drivers had some sort of "personality" and if you pushed on them, some got frightened and drove more defensive form that point in time and some got more aggressive and tried to attack you in the next corners.
now i do not know how much of that is intellectual property of the studio that made "total immersion racing" but the concepts and the behaviour of that ai was really good.
lfs might be a online racing simulator, but having a good ai can be nice for some people using them for training purposes or to fill up a racing field with only a few human players. also it is nice for those people living in the wrong timezones so they struggle to find populated servers.
updating the ai is definately needed, but it should be low in priority and may be done after the tire physics, because the ai also depends on that physics, and after a content update and maybe even after a day/night/weather update because all those updates are of more use to the average player.
peace, mo
that is exactly the problem lfs and this forum have, since the devs decided to paint themselves into a corner - regardless of the nice colour they used!
because of the lack of new development - all arguments are spinning round in circles... ...for ages.
now, with development back from the dead, even if it are just minor movements for now, like the 3d support and dx9 testing, we as the community should try to bring back this forum to be a place were racers are welcome.
everyone has the same right to say whatever one wants and also how often one wants to repeat their statements - if you do not want to read it - use the ignore functions that is why they are there!
so in old lfs traditon let´s start a new longest waiting for the patch tread ever and show the devs and the fellow racers in this community that we all still care and that lfs is the most amazing racing simulator in the universe!
give the whole damn thing a big push of love and care - because in the end we all like to see the original lfs concept realized to its full potential and cover all different classes of racing vehicles from bikes to trucks, from closed circuit racing to rally and hillclimb and spanning a day night cycle with all forms of weather.
peace, mo
what is so funny about the wish to have the best racing simulator on earth also available on the best mobile platform?
or do you like to have a windows mobile (:ices_rofl) version instead?
and i don´t know what the dx9 patch "will bring me" as i do not always want "more" as most of the people do - it is just that i´m looking out for testing that patch for overall functionality and bugs, because doing this and the direct communication with the devs was always one of my favourite parts that made this game so different and special above most other game development.
some people enjoy different things than others - you might like to just play a bugfree game - i like to enjoy finding that bugs, even if they destroy my gaming experience untill they get fixed.
peace, mo
intresting to see that most people posting in this tread only care about their ability to run programs on either platform.
only very few seem to understand that the main problem for scawen is the crippled or broken functionality that he needs as a developer!
looking forward to the dx9 test patch, so there is finally something new for me after the new 3d functions, which i do not use at this time.
also i support the idea to give up on directx/microsoft dependance and convert lfs to open gl to free it for every platform - lfs on ios anyone? (but not giving up bigger platforms at the same time, so lfs on pc or mac at home and on ios for when you are on the go).
peace, mo
only very few seem to understand that the main problem for scawen is the crippled or broken functionality that he needs as a developer!
looking forward to the dx9 test patch, so there is finally something new for me after the new 3d functions, which i do not use at this time.
also i support the idea to give up on directx/microsoft dependance and convert lfs to open gl to free it for every platform - lfs on ios anyone? (but not giving up bigger platforms at the same time, so lfs on pc or mac at home and on ios for when you are on the go).
peace, mo
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG