Custom setup are always better than default...
At the end of the day, if you look irl - even if I don't take into account F1 as cars are clearly (not that much compared to few years ago) different - if you look in gp2, gp3, 3.5, FR 2.0 you will find out that teams pretty much have their drivers approximately around the same position if they have equal skills but not same driving style.
For example if you look at DAMS team in gp2, you have Palmer slightly faster than Richelmi but if Palmer starts on pole Richelmi isn't p22. If you look at ART also in gp2 you may have big pace difference in quali between Vandoorne and Izawa (Izawa is discovering all the european tracks and "european shit italian tyres") but if you look at race pace they are similar.
Then yes drivers drives differently, but a good car remains a good one and in real life it is still the driver that have to get his driving used to the car than the other way. Generally you have one/two step wing/roll bar/pitch difference between the two cars, something like that. No GP2 driver will win a race in Lazarus, but you have chance to win one if you are at Dams, Carlin, ART, Arden,...
For example if you look at DAMS team in gp2, you have Palmer slightly faster than Richelmi but if Palmer starts on pole Richelmi isn't p22. If you look at ART also in gp2 you may have big pace difference in quali between Vandoorne and Izawa (Izawa is discovering all the european tracks and "european shit italian tyres") but if you look at race pace they are similar.
Then yes drivers drives differently, but a good car remains a good one and in real life it is still the driver that have to get his driving used to the car than the other way. Generally you have one/two step wing/roll bar/pitch difference between the two cars, something like that. No GP2 driver will win a race in Lazarus, but you have chance to win one if you are at Dams, Carlin, ART, Arden,...
Everyone is also really friendly in professional motorsport but nobody will even tell you any hint on their setup.
Yeah but unfortunately LFS doesn't have rain.
Things are not only that way because of rules, I swear no drivers would like to lock up for the brake attack in a F1 with pirelli tyres at 300km/h so nobody is designing a car that can do so because it makes no sense.
Things are not only that way because of rules, I swear no drivers would like to lock up for the brake attack in a F1 with pirelli tyres at 300km/h so nobody is designing a car that can do so because it makes no sense.
Well engine sound is also created by air intake and exhaust as the opening and closure of the valves creates some waving effect on intake and exhaust. These waves are also used for performance purpose as they enable motorist to increase the efficiency of the engine at particular engine speed. The length of the intake/exhaust pipes are important to set the rpm at which these effect occurs.
Then you also have some sounds coming from all the other parts of the engine. You don't really hear that much combustion sounds for petrol engine (in regard to diesel I mean) but you may hear the camshaft also.
In the end, engine sound is a big mix of fluid dynamics and mechanical vibrations.
Then you also have some sounds coming from all the other parts of the engine. You don't really hear that much combustion sounds for petrol engine (in regard to diesel I mean) but you may hear the camshaft also.
In the end, engine sound is a big mix of fluid dynamics and mechanical vibrations.
in a way you are wrong, you should see tyres traction like "how much longitudinal force my tyres can handle before sliding too much" (i.e locking in braking instance, also note that a tyre need to slide to provide some force).
So basically if your brake system is powerfull enough to provide enough torque moment to create a force on the contact patch that would be higher than this sort of friction limit, yes your are right, your braking event is limited by your tyre grip.
If your braking system is not able to provide such a braking torque, then your maximum deceleration is dictated by your brake system.
In real life, as Tristan is trying to explain you, on the big brakes attack as you get massive tyres load (also bear in mind you have load transfert that give even more grip to your front tyres) you are nearly never limited by your tyres but by the brake system as you would need to put a crazy amount of force on the brake pedal to have enough brake pressure to actually be able to have the brake torque required to get over your tyre grip. Then as you lose some load (less downforce + less deceleration & load transfert) you have to release the brakes as this time your tyres friction is the limit. That become even worse when you start turn-in as your tyres are now working in combined G situation.
The thing is that Tristan is using LFS as a simulation and isn't using the small things you can do in it you can't do in real life. Exept in Nascar or Endurance sometimes (i.e : need harder brake pad to last 24hrs), you never change any part of your brake systems to adjust their efficiency for a particular venue.
So basically if your brake system is powerfull enough to provide enough torque moment to create a force on the contact patch that would be higher than this sort of friction limit, yes your are right, your braking event is limited by your tyre grip.
If your braking system is not able to provide such a braking torque, then your maximum deceleration is dictated by your brake system.
In real life, as Tristan is trying to explain you, on the big brakes attack as you get massive tyres load (also bear in mind you have load transfert that give even more grip to your front tyres) you are nearly never limited by your tyres but by the brake system as you would need to put a crazy amount of force on the brake pedal to have enough brake pressure to actually be able to have the brake torque required to get over your tyre grip. Then as you lose some load (less downforce + less deceleration & load transfert) you have to release the brakes as this time your tyres friction is the limit. That become even worse when you start turn-in as your tyres are now working in combined G situation.
The thing is that Tristan is using LFS as a simulation and isn't using the small things you can do in it you can't do in real life. Exept in Nascar or Endurance sometimes (i.e : need harder brake pad to last 24hrs), you never change any part of your brake systems to adjust their efficiency for a particular venue.
In reality it is impossible to lock up a tyre with brakes working normally (I mean you don't have any of the two brake pump or lines or callipers failing which would make the pedal suddenly softer) with a GP2 car when putting a brake bit at about 90bars. Possibly you would lock up if you put 110 but let's be honest, you need something like 120kg on the brake pedal for 90bars, you would need 150kg on it for 110...good luck 
More seriously tristan is right, you rarely lock up on the brake attack exept with low df cars (i.e F4) or abnormal situations (slick + wet) but you are most likely to lock up end of brake with less load on tyres and even more when you turn in as you are now in combined G situation. That's why drivers have to have a degressive braking shape.
More seriously tristan is right, you rarely lock up on the brake attack exept with low df cars (i.e F4) or abnormal situations (slick + wet) but you are most likely to lock up end of brake with less load on tyres and even more when you turn in as you are now in combined G situation. That's why drivers have to have a degressive braking shape.
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Actually that really depend on the track, if you look at Donington laptimes they are similar to british F4 and 2s off what GTE cars were doing in ELMS 2012 (usually GTE are sort of same pace as FR 2.0). In a track with shorter straight and slower corners like La Ferté Gaucher Formula E torque advantage become more useful. That's really a car made for small tracks.
Amp Nascar is now struggling to have 43 entries...
The formula E development car made a lot of testings this winter without any troubles and made similar laptimes as FR2.0. You would be surprise by how few teams are working
Btw well spotted I'm made a typo
casual motorsport fan is indeed a lot more relevant.
The formula E development car made a lot of testings this winter without any troubles and made similar laptimes as FR2.0. You would be surprise by how few teams are working
Btw well spotted I'm made a typo
casual motorsport fan is indeed a lot more relevant.Guys you all miss one thing.
This serie isn't make to attract motorsport fan in particular, but to bring new people in a new sort of motorsport. It's not about attracting new fans, just having different fans.
This is racing, yes but in the main this is a marketing thing especially in the first few years.
The cars can't have as much downforce as a WSR car simply because it is electrical. The track, the car and everything around is made in order to keep quite a lightweight single seater that can do 20 minutes of racing on a city track. Spark, renault, Williams, McLaren could have probably done something electric that could have lapped as fast as an LMP1 car around Donington but nothing that could have done 20minutes stints.
Plus the serie got other constraint such as having the same tyres for dry & wet conditions + 18" wheels which is new in single seaters. By the way this car have less technical troubles than half the F1 grid this year and the technology it has is really impressive. Nowadays you don't have any race car that have so many patterns on board. This car is also a work in progress laboratory for factories, which is one of the last excuses motorsport addict find to promote a costly motorsport marketing program to its finance department.
By the way these cars are faster than Formula Renault 2.0 which was the target at the begining of the project. One more thing, that's the only area of motorsport which isn't suffuring from lack of sponsors...
This serie isn't make to attract motorsport fan in particular, but to bring new people in a new sort of motorsport. It's not about attracting new fans, just having different fans.
This is racing, yes but in the main this is a marketing thing especially in the first few years.
The cars can't have as much downforce as a WSR car simply because it is electrical. The track, the car and everything around is made in order to keep quite a lightweight single seater that can do 20 minutes of racing on a city track. Spark, renault, Williams, McLaren could have probably done something electric that could have lapped as fast as an LMP1 car around Donington but nothing that could have done 20minutes stints.
Plus the serie got other constraint such as having the same tyres for dry & wet conditions + 18" wheels which is new in single seaters. By the way this car have less technical troubles than half the F1 grid this year and the technology it has is really impressive. Nowadays you don't have any race car that have so many patterns on board. This car is also a work in progress laboratory for factories, which is one of the last excuses motorsport addict find to promote a costly motorsport marketing program to its finance department.
By the way these cars are faster than Formula Renault 2.0 which was the target at the begining of the project. One more thing, that's the only area of motorsport which isn't suffuring from lack of sponsors...
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to win a race in reality you don't only need driver skills. If motorsport was only about driving skills it would be boring for 95% of the people working on it.
To win a race in reality, you need to build/buy a new car thanks to a god engineering crew, good mechanics that prepare a good and reliable car, you need good race engineer that set up the car well and get a good strategy especially when it comes to endurance racing and finally you need good drivers to finish the work I would say. In real life you need all of that, the best driver can't win a race in the worst team and the worst driver can't win a race in the best team. Winning a race for me is all about that, not only driver skills.
In LFS I guess if ppl are trying to build teams and get it racing into some leagues that's to sort of make it the same way. So yes team set up and the team strategy that often comes with it is quite important which is exactly the reason why it hurts LFS leagues.
Then like in reality that comes to teams/drivers to share their set. Personally I nearly always shared my set even when I was in spdo or E-Team to teams that needed some helps. Sometimes not my best for one particular combo, but at least some really good basis. I spent also some times explaining things to people so they can understand what changing the rollbar involves and why it makes the handling better or worse, and to be honest I'm quite enjoying that role.
The thing is, ask for setup, ask for tips, don't steal.
To win a race in reality, you need to build/buy a new car thanks to a god engineering crew, good mechanics that prepare a good and reliable car, you need good race engineer that set up the car well and get a good strategy especially when it comes to endurance racing and finally you need good drivers to finish the work I would say. In real life you need all of that, the best driver can't win a race in the worst team and the worst driver can't win a race in the best team. Winning a race for me is all about that, not only driver skills.
In LFS I guess if ppl are trying to build teams and get it racing into some leagues that's to sort of make it the same way. So yes team set up and the team strategy that often comes with it is quite important which is exactly the reason why it hurts LFS leagues.
Then like in reality that comes to teams/drivers to share their set. Personally I nearly always shared my set even when I was in spdo or E-Team to teams that needed some helps. Sometimes not my best for one particular combo, but at least some really good basis. I spent also some times explaining things to people so they can understand what changing the rollbar involves and why it makes the handling better or worse, and to be honest I'm quite enjoying that role.
The thing is, ask for setup, ask for tips, don't steal.
That's quite an interesting statement, in most of LFS endurance leagues the basic strategy have always been to do a complete hour and a lot of team always thought that if they were able to save a stop it was faster. Stint simulations in LFS have always shown on my side that the quickest strategy was actually quite often to do slightly shorter stint. That's even more important when you run soft tyres. Then ofc another thing that have to be taken into account is that it is always safer to have the "base" strategy as you don't get everything broken by a SC at the wrong time.
Regarding setups, back in the good days of F3 euroseries, F3 teams used to hide their suspensions and to close garage door when doing setups...I saw few teams doing that this year in Le Mans so yes you can always have a look at the wing setting, but you would never know which antiroll bar is used, which spring, what is the ride height (which is actually the #1 factor on aero balance)...I heard that Redbull have developped a software to get data from television but I also heard it wasn't really working...and anyway you would always miss some informations as you can't know tyre load with pictures, same as rideheight.
Tbh that setup extractor thing hurts me first time I heard about it, but in the end I decided not to care as this is just a game which is sometimes forgotten in league racing. Anyway you are always faster with a setup you made by yourself.
Anyway at the end of the day the problem isn't that often the car, but the thing between the steering wheel and the seat.
:o finally devs announced a new patch big update so lot of people comes back 
Good to see you around Dennis 
Good to see you around Dennis Basically in the Ligier you have three displays, the classic steering wheel which is from PI like all the on-board electronic systems (power distribution), then you have a motec data logger (Oak have been using it for ages and I don't see why they would stop) which also have a display on the left in order to monitor vehicle vital parts (temperature, pressure,...) and also for the alarms.
On the Morgan you got fix blue light for the last 8-9 liters (basically only for Le Mans) and a flashing blue one for the last 5 liters. These two alarms have different conditions which explains why it sometimes turn off.
The last display on top left is for the marshalling system.
For deggis, yeah all those displays and leds have a night mode that reduce its brightness otherwise it is really disturbing the driver
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Well Grosjean won Pau GP for his first season of F3 and bear in mind that back in those day, ASM was the team to be in if you want to win F3 Euro.
About Sainz Jr, that's indeed the first time he is that consistent in a championship then the drivers running p2 & p3 in the championship are rookies. The problem of 3.5 and GP2 is that you have so many drivers that have made more than 2 seasons so it's hard for rookies but at the end of the day, looking at the poor 20 cars WSR grid, how would GP2 and WSR grid looks like without those drivers?
About Sainz Jr, that's indeed the first time he is that consistent in a championship then the drivers running p2 & p3 in the championship are rookies. The problem of 3.5 and GP2 is that you have so many drivers that have made more than 2 seasons so it's hard for rookies but at the end of the day, looking at the poor 20 cars WSR grid, how would GP2 and WSR grid looks like without those drivers?
This.
At the end of the day, we are all only using the steering wheel to feel the car when in reality you need your bottom also for it.
I always love this kind of discussions
To sort of confirm what have been said.
I know few professional driver in the loop simulator that only employ few people. Basically one expert for each area including software, vehicle modelling, track modelling,...
Regarding LFS, at the end of the day, only few people know exactly what is coming up, better not to dream too much about it.
To sort of confirm what have been said.
I know few professional driver in the loop simulator that only employ few people. Basically one expert for each area including software, vehicle modelling, track modelling,...
Regarding LFS, at the end of the day, only few people know exactly what is coming up, better not to dream too much about it.
Let's bet on who will be champion in every series :
GP2 : Stoffel Vandoorne
WSR : Pierre Gasly (I don't believe Sainz Jr can be good a whole season)
GP3 : Alex Lynn
F3 : Esteban Ocon
FR 2.0 Eurocup : Nyck De Vries
GP2 : Stoffel Vandoorne
WSR : Pierre Gasly (I don't believe Sainz Jr can be good a whole season)
GP3 : Alex Lynn
F3 : Esteban Ocon
FR 2.0 Eurocup : Nyck De Vries
Because we are in 2014 and now you can finish Le Mans by using every single curb...
I always loved those kind of discussion. Not to be hard for anyone, but at the end of the day that's all down to personal opinion of everyone having an idea of how a racing car should feel. At the end of the day, do all bear in mind that a driver is not only using his eyes, ears and hand to feel a car. Most of his feeling is down to what he feels with his ass, especially car's yaw and ofc all the transient effect that occurs on brake attack, brake release, turn-in,...
I would actually be quite interested to know how the vehicle model are done in several games, because what I see when looking at some telemetry data is actually quite far from what happens in reality...(not even talking about tyre modelling because this one, obviously even Pirelli don't really know what they are doing).
Remember also that LFS and all the video games are made for public entertainment, so the aim is that everyone can control the car, there is a reason why I'm engineer and not racing driver (unfortunately that's not only money)...
I would actually be quite interested to know how the vehicle model are done in several games, because what I see when looking at some telemetry data is actually quite far from what happens in reality...(not even talking about tyre modelling because this one, obviously even Pirelli don't really know what they are doing).
Remember also that LFS and all the video games are made for public entertainment, so the aim is that everyone can control the car, there is a reason why I'm engineer and not racing driver (unfortunately that's not only money)...
He actually made last two gt2 pole in GTWS
That's always hard to keep going and luck is against you but well 2 laps isn't that much on this track especially as ilbens nearly lapped all the field except top 5 after 2 hours...We also have our bad luck and in the end I think that we at least also lost something equal to two laps, that's all just about keeping the hope, race being long, probably with safety car, gaining back a lap under SC is still possible as LLM showed. Audi won a race that way in ALMS.
@Matt : yep gap was 1min 38 on penultimate lap, but we had nothing really to gain at overpushing to lap you, we already had enough failure for the whole season, especially as finally you found some pace on your last stint.
@Matt : yep gap was 1min 38 on penultimate lap, but we had nothing really to gain at overpushing to lap you, we already had enough failure for the whole season, especially as finally you found some pace on your last stint.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG