For me a system has failed whenever sb. claims that some rules of an existing ruleset are guidelines more then rules.
Sidenote :
I can agree on about everything you´ve posted-not only-inhere so far.
Regards [TDRT] R.Kolz
ARG....another post of me.
Pls. read my post #40. I have had problems posting this one.
Post #40 is the "official R.Kolz and latest one" to refer to.
Obj. 4 - Benij, thank´s for your statement on this one. Done.
Regards [TDRT] R.Kolz
Pls. read my post #40. I have had problems posting this one.
Post #40 is the "official R.Kolz and latest one" to refer to.
Obj. 4 - Benij, thank´s for your statement on this one. Done.
Regards [TDRT] R.Kolz
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones:
"I understand the reasons that you're upset. However:
1) There is no way to accurately measure how far apart two cars are on the track. It's easy to estimate, but not something that we can really pinpoint. (Can't take a measuring stick out onto the track.) Therefore...
2) There is no penalty assigned to a violation of the 2 car-length rule.Aka, it is a guideline.
We put it in the rules to scare people into following it. :-D
Never really expected anyone (especially someone who was not directly involved in the alleged violation) to protest it.
The wording will be changed for next season in order to make this more clear, assuming we still have limiter/spacing rules for next season. Maybe everyone will be courteous enough by that point that we won't need them?"
Ok,this IGTC series has in my oppinion been some of the best racing I´ve ever had in my short LFS live, admitted.
Why I posted the objections 1-4? Well, because none of the other involved drivers did as of (1-3). Easy as it is.
Objection 4 I did as it wasn´t the first time I have had contact with a DBA guy at the IGTC rounds. But this one about round 8 will you guys decide but for sure it will be contunued on our danish LFS forum.
And as of your point 1):
Why did you introduce this rule when you are aware of that you can´t measure it? Never the less - I dont even need my glasses to be able to see what´s going on after about 45 mins. of the race right before the green flag was waved once again. It´s on youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kI5jH4X-w1g
Objection 3 is about PL >and< 2 car length involving CORE Car #08 and Car #1 at race position 2 and 4 on the youtube video.
Thank you for pointing this out once more. I finally realized it. ;-)
As of your point 2) :
One <B>very strainge</B> headline:
"There is no penalty assigned to a violation of the 2 car-length rule."
Aka, it is a guideline.We put it in the rules to scare people into following it."
Go through you ruleset and find out that about every rule you have there is no description of punishement attached to it.
Want to have an example? Here we go.
SKINNING AND DRIVER NAMING for example. Thousand of other examples to be found.
Where does it say you get a penalty when name/racenumber/skin are not in IGTC-rules order? Nowhere. Your point 2 doesn´t make any sense at all. Let´s for a moment stay at this matter. Drivernaming. Well, TDRT has been there - done that.
See att. file.
This is my very last post in this objection thread. I think I made my point clear.
A serious race league needs some serious rules and I still believe this season, with all of it´s comments is helpful to arcieve an even better IGTC round 2.
Thanks to you guys I´m right now having these discussions. Without you guys there wouldn´t be any IGTC at all.
Regards
[TRDT] R.Kolz
"I understand the reasons that you're upset. However:
1) There is no way to accurately measure how far apart two cars are on the track. It's easy to estimate, but not something that we can really pinpoint. (Can't take a measuring stick out onto the track.) Therefore...
2) There is no penalty assigned to a violation of the 2 car-length rule.Aka, it is a guideline.
We put it in the rules to scare people into following it. :-D
Never really expected anyone (especially someone who was not directly involved in the alleged violation) to protest it.
The wording will be changed for next season in order to make this more clear, assuming we still have limiter/spacing rules for next season. Maybe everyone will be courteous enough by that point that we won't need them?"
Ok,this IGTC series has in my oppinion been some of the best racing I´ve ever had in my short LFS live, admitted.
Why I posted the objections 1-4? Well, because none of the other involved drivers did as of (1-3). Easy as it is.
Objection 4 I did as it wasn´t the first time I have had contact with a DBA guy at the IGTC rounds. But this one about round 8 will you guys decide but for sure it will be contunued on our danish LFS forum.
And as of your point 1):
Why did you introduce this rule when you are aware of that you can´t measure it? Never the less - I dont even need my glasses to be able to see what´s going on after about 45 mins. of the race right before the green flag was waved once again. It´s on youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kI5jH4X-w1g
Objection 3 is about PL >and< 2 car length involving CORE Car #08 and Car #1 at race position 2 and 4 on the youtube video.
Thank you for pointing this out once more. I finally realized it. ;-)
As of your point 2) :
One <B>very strainge</B> headline:
"There is no penalty assigned to a violation of the 2 car-length rule."
Aka, it is a guideline.We put it in the rules to scare people into following it."
Go through you ruleset and find out that about every rule you have there is no description of punishement attached to it.
Want to have an example? Here we go.
SKINNING AND DRIVER NAMING for example. Thousand of other examples to be found.
Where does it say you get a penalty when name/racenumber/skin are not in IGTC-rules order? Nowhere. Your point 2 doesn´t make any sense at all. Let´s for a moment stay at this matter. Drivernaming. Well, TDRT has been there - done that.
See att. file.
This is my very last post in this objection thread. I think I made my point clear.
A serious race league needs some serious rules and I still believe this season, with all of it´s comments is helpful to arcieve an even better IGTC round 2.
Thanks to you guys I´m right now having these discussions. Without you guys there wouldn´t be any IGTC at all.
Regards
[TRDT] R.Kolz
Last edited by R.Kolz, .
Objection 3.
Car Numbers: #23 / #1.
Lap/time: 45 mins race session.
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter / no 2 car length at some point last sector.
I´d like to encourage you to watch the replay.It´s pretty self-explanatory and my motivation on objection 3 was because of the illigeal driving of car #23 ( gaining 2 positions) and #1 ( gaining 1 position) they violated the officilal IGTC rules. Furthermore it´s to see what advantage the slipstreaming of the leading cars give you but not the 6th and worse positioned racers on the track as they don´t violate this rule - which status now has changed to be a " Guideline" only.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kI5jH4X-w1g
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones, 21.14:
(As a side note, the 13 (leader) was doing some weird braking stuff while on the limiter ahead of the 1. Not sure what that was about.)
That´s mayby why you introduced the "2 car length" rule?
Car Numbers: #23 / #1.
Lap/time: 45 mins race session.
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter / no 2 car length at some point last sector.
I´d like to encourage you to watch the replay.It´s pretty self-explanatory and my motivation on objection 3 was because of the illigeal driving of car #23 ( gaining 2 positions) and #1 ( gaining 1 position) they violated the officilal IGTC rules. Furthermore it´s to see what advantage the slipstreaming of the leading cars give you but not the 6th and worse positioned racers on the track as they don´t violate this rule - which status now has changed to be a " Guideline" only.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kI5jH4X-w1g
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones, 21.14:
(As a side note, the 13 (leader) was doing some weird braking stuff while on the limiter ahead of the 1. Not sure what that was about.)
That´s mayby why you introduced the "2 car length" rule?
Excuse me but for me this IGTC series will be over when we have the official round 8 race results and the official overall standings as well.
We don´t have them yet.
Even that I can see that CORE really are some fast celebraters...
"Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Kolz
1.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 23 mins left of qualifying
Description of incident or video link: chatting: " ... " while ignoring a blue flag."
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones
"Chat is undeniable. Guilty as charged."
Thank you that we can agree on this one.
--------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones:
"Ignoring a blue flag, however, is untrue."
I have understood that you disagree on this matter but please let us just forget about you beeing blue flagged as it actually isn´t subject of objection 1. I shouldn´t have posted it at all. Sorry for that.
Regards
[TDRT] R.Kolz
Originally Posted by R.Kolz
1.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 23 mins left of qualifying
Description of incident or video link: chatting: " ... " while ignoring a blue flag."
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones
"Chat is undeniable. Guilty as charged."
Thank you that we can agree on this one.
--------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by DeadWolfBones:
"Ignoring a blue flag, however, is untrue."
I have understood that you disagree on this matter but please let us just forget about you beeing blue flagged as it actually isn´t subject of objection 1. I shouldn´t have posted it at all. Sorry for that.
Regards
[TDRT] R.Kolz
I´m sorry to tell you but this is in my oppinion one of your worse statements ever made.
I will try to explain you why.
You´re telling me that the "2 car-length rule" is a guideline and not a rule.
Then you as a IGTC admin might consider to update your IGTC homepage and add a sub-section called "Guidelines"
Pls. let me explain some of my preparation for an IGTC race.
a) I visit the official homepage for the IGTC races:
http://www.igtc.co.nr/
b) I point my mouse on the term " RULES ".
c) I read these rules og the IGTC and understand that me and my teammates will have to follow them during the actual IGTC race.
d) As of the "2 car length rule" I find something in the official IGTC rules set. Here:
RULES:
E. RACE START CONDUCT:
1) Races are started behind a safety car (hereafter SC), driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must leave a gap of at least two (2) car-lengths to the car ahead during the parade lap.
1.1) During the parade lap, all drivers must drive respectfully and with control. Pit limiters are not required until the final sector of the parade lap, at which time race control will instruct drivers to stabilize the two car-length gap to the car ahead and engage their limiters. Any driver caught driving with pit limiter disengaged after this point will be subject to a DT.
e) I take this as a rule.Full stop. At no point I will treat this as a just a guideline or something which is allowed to be interpretated at a later stage. And nor/neighter will my teammates do, I hope
Not sure they will follow this rule as of some tactical race reasons but if caught they will not be able to blaim anybody but themselves.
I will attach a file referring my objection 2 made in this thread. Later on I will make my points of objection 1,3 and 4 even more clear to help your decision finding.
Sidenote: I´m aware of that it looks like I´m shooting at the CORE team but let me asure you that this is not the case and I wouldn´t have any motivation to do so. I know the CORE racing only as very fair and competative team and so far I never had to complain about the above.
See att. file regarding my objection 2.
Regards
[TDRT] R.Kolz
The pic. shows 5 cars at SC not keeping 2 car length. Easy as it is.
But:
In case you don´t see anything at the picture you just ignore it.
Or put it in this way:
It´s a simle add-on.
My complaints No.1 to 4 are like the IGCT rules demand clear listed as:
Car Numbers:
Lap/Time:
Description of incident or video link:
Regards TDRT R.Kolz
1.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 23 mins left of qualifying
Description of incident or video link: chatting: " ... " while ignoring a blue flag.
2.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 2.40 mins race session
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter last sector / no 2 car length
3.
Car Numbers: #23 / #1 (See attached file and race replay)
Lap/time: 45 mins race session.
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter / no 2 car length at some point last sector
4.
Car Numbers: #05 <--------------- EDIT: DBA´s car has No. #12 and not #5 as I posted before.Lap/Time: 1hour 11.mins Race session
Description of incident or video link: diregarding blue flag to TDRT #21.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 23 mins left of qualifying
Description of incident or video link: chatting: " ... " while ignoring a blue flag.
2.
Car Numbers: #23
Lap/Time: 2.40 mins race session
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter last sector / no 2 car length
3.
Car Numbers: #23 / #1 (See attached file and race replay)
Lap/time: 45 mins race session.
Description of incident or video link: no pitlimiter / no 2 car length at some point last sector
4.
Car Numbers: #05 <--------------- EDIT: DBA´s car has No. #12 and not #5 as I posted before.Lap/Time: 1hour 11.mins Race session
Description of incident or video link: diregarding blue flag to TDRT #21.
Last edited by R.Kolz, .
Going to be a movie maker:
Feel free to see my first one:
Title : "What´s the rush all about".
See attached file.
Feel free to see my first one:
Title : "What´s the rush all about".
See attached file.
I´ll for sure open one if there isn´t one.. 
Same here. Probs after 37 mins. I already made a post in the LFSstats section about it.
Replay of yesterdays Round 8 IGTC. Stops after 37 mins.
Replay download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0xi7eu0zzab
See att. file.
Replay download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0xi7eu0zzab
See att. file.
Thank you. You keep a replay of our quali as well ?
IGTC No.3:
"In order to avoid a penalty, a driver who loses connection for any reason prior to a driver change must reconnect and re-join the race. If another driver takes over the car before the original driver reconnects, the team will be assessed a LL penalty in the final standings."
After almost 4 hours of racing I just can´t think clear anymore but somehow I understand your point/motivation to do so.
Pls. explain it to me.
"In order to avoid a penalty, a driver who loses connection for any reason prior to a driver change must reconnect and re-join the race. If another driver takes over the car before the original driver reconnects, the team will be assessed a LL penalty in the final standings."
After almost 4 hours of racing I just can´t think clear anymore but somehow I understand your point/motivation to do so.
Pls. explain it to me.
Agreed. I´ll post my sugestion/question in the IGTC-thread " ask Q here ". Btw.. good Unity race this was.
Thanks, srdsprinter. Yeah, unlucky. We enjoyed a lot racing you guys as well.
Anybody a replay of the quali session, pls ?
Anybody a replay of the quali session, pls ?
TDRT #21 out of the race. Very disappointing. Flipped last corner ( gi´me an excuse here, pls.
) caused by the damage of an overlapping manouvre....
With this damage I had a big moment, right after the 1st split, 2 laps before so I should have been all warned about it.
2 laps after I couldn´t save the #21.
Front right damper and left back damper was a bad damage mixture.
Now I´m very sorry that my teammate [TDRT] T.Jessen can´t race tonight.
We really worked hard to get a exellent setup for this track. Thanks to my teammates we for sure did a great job, indicated that I didn´t even got my tyres changed with setting "if worse 55%" under SC period arround lap 18, I think it was.
Fuel? TDRT has always enough fuel on board...:biggrinfl
Well, TDRT still has one more car in the race. Good luck guys.
Good race all.
The live - stream without commentary ... No way. Bump!
EDIT : That´s even worse..
Bump!EDIT : That´s even worse..
Thanks.
I forgot that even in singleplayer mode it automatically loads the modded track layout ( not in hotlapping mode ).Thanks for clarification on the rules.
Most likely the tyres will stay where they belong...
I hope.
I forgot that even in singleplayer mode it automatically loads the modded track layout ( not in hotlapping mode ).Thanks for clarification on the rules.
Most likely the tyres will stay where they belong...
I hope.IGTC rule no.6 :
"Drivers must remain between the pit exit lines when exiting the pits, under all circumstances."
Are you still "between" the yellow line when you touch them but not fully cross them? What about the pit entrance?
We´d like to have some general rule clarification pls.
As for the IGTC AS7 track layout:
It´s a very tricky pit exit.
I dont like the tyres at pit exit. One of them is positioned on the yellow line and additionally if a car hits these tyres there is a slight chance for the tyres to end on the racing track.
I´d rather see 2 or 3 wall-units there.They should be placed right on the yellow pit exit lines so that it would be impossible to get a penalty at the pit exits.
"Drivers must remain between the pit exit lines when exiting the pits, under all circumstances."
Are you still "between" the yellow line when you touch them but not fully cross them? What about the pit entrance?
We´d like to have some general rule clarification pls.
As for the IGTC AS7 track layout:
It´s a very tricky pit exit.
I dont like the tyres at pit exit. One of them is positioned on the yellow line and additionally if a car hits these tyres there is a slight chance for the tyres to end on the racing track.
I´d rather see 2 or 3 wall-units there.They should be placed right on the yellow pit exit lines so that it would be impossible to get a penalty at the pit exits.
You can practise on our [TDRT]DanishRacingProServer if you want to.I have the IGTC layout/lappers installed as well.
R.Kolz, R.Kolz, Denmark
GT1
FXR
GT1
FXR
Here the LFSstats from server 1 . See att.file.
Team: [TDRT] TheDanishRacingTeam
FXR #21:
Driver A: [TDRT] R.Kolz (R.Kolz)
Driver B: tba.
FXR #22:
?
Sorry, but I really can´t tell you any more at this point of time.
Regards R.Kolz
FXR #21:
Driver A: [TDRT] R.Kolz (R.Kolz)
Driver B: tba.
FXR #22:
?
Sorry, but I really can´t tell you any more at this point of time.
Regards R.Kolz
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG