Engine affects everything? Just stfu, I can give u a MatLab simulation of a racing engine with the indiciating p-V diagram and an algorith to calculate all the pressures over the 360°rotation of the crank in half a degree increments. It doesn't get any more accurate than that. All the efficiency factors can be taken from factory produced figures for any type of engine u can imainge. How do I know? I had to actually solve 14 engine related "assingments" ranging from a 2000 rpm 16 cyl diesel to a racing V8. Everything is already known, all the info is there.. so scawen guessing the "inertia" for patch Y is REDUNDANT. He should stop being so british and actually ask for help.
I wish everyone would stop acting like sheep, especially the TRU hardcore fanboys with their "WHY DONT U GO MAKE UR OWN SIMULATOR THEN! +1+1+1++1+1+1+1". You are all chromosomal retards. We (me basically) are not talking about introducing groundbreaking physics updates or completley redoing the game.
It is the DEVS who keep saying "We're not going to release anything to you until it's READY FOR RELEASE" i.e. good enough/perfect by their standards or bla bla. Great work ethics there, if only they'd ****ing stick to it. Not gonna release a Scirocco in December cause it's not ready? ESP not working as it's supposed to? Wow, tnx a bunch for saving us from all the frustration of driving an INFERIOR CAR. But hey.. releasing KY2/3 with ****ing ZONES OF SHIT THAT ISNT WORKING like curbs that ruin your dampers in any race longer than an hour, that's just fine. KY3 is up to the allmightly LFS standards. Let's go further down the list:
BF1? Immaculate. Good luck driving more than 20 laps without dampers being 70 % orange.
Fixing the "tire physics" in Y patch? GREAT JOB, just.. no words to explain how awesome it was. Racing on R3 tires, introducing R1s for FBM.. which are driven on 1.8 bar COLD pressure. Only thing being proven there is that LFS is developed and "fixed" on GUESSWORK ALONE, and there's plenty of people capable of providing the real life telemetry data to refine the model.
New rims on the FBM!!!!!!1111oneone OMGAWD, how could I have ever lived before those. Totally worth it.
Rotating brake discs!!!111 YAY ur the best devs!!1 I look at those all the time while I'm racing.
And ofcourse, let's not forget THE ONE, THE ONLYYYYYY - ARROW POINTING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHEN U EXIT THE PITS!!! WOOOUUU!U!U!U!!??!?!1
Fasgking get real. Fix the shit that is broken, dont add new stuff on top. And as far as cars go.. why is everyone so mad about FBM/Scirocco or any real world crap? Forget it. If they can model a Scirocco in 2 weeks to be ready for some german computers expo at the request of VW, then SURE AS HELL they can make an imaginary LMP car so we dont have to drive the SAME TIRED AND UNBALANCED GTR class since 2005. And it's IMAGINARY, no need to REFINE it to perfection.
I'm sorry if u find LX6 @ FE4R a rivetting combo and if you never get tired of driving different things in LFS. But if u put in any time into getting actually good at a particular class of cars, u WILL get bored. So just stop with the "if ur not happy go drive something else" arguments. Yes, I'm not happy. Yes, LFS is alpha software. No, most companies don't charge u for their alpha software, or even beta software. Am I gonna go drive something else? Already did, and physics wise it's not as good as LFS, so after the initial 2-3 days when u get over all the shiny new cars and tracks and actually have to drive a car for a couple of hours - it's not quite worth it. This isn't an argument for LFS to not do anything different cause it's still "better" than the rest. Just turn out more content. Track editor is obviously made and works quite fine. Car editor works well too. So use them and forget about arrows pointing out of pits.
I'ma go bring my blood pressure down.
It is the DEVS who keep saying "We're not going to release anything to you until it's READY FOR RELEASE" i.e. good enough/perfect by their standards or bla bla. Great work ethics there, if only they'd ****ing stick to it. Not gonna release a Scirocco in December cause it's not ready? ESP not working as it's supposed to? Wow, tnx a bunch for saving us from all the frustration of driving an INFERIOR CAR. But hey.. releasing KY2/3 with ****ing ZONES OF SHIT THAT ISNT WORKING like curbs that ruin your dampers in any race longer than an hour, that's just fine. KY3 is up to the allmightly LFS standards. Let's go further down the list:
BF1? Immaculate. Good luck driving more than 20 laps without dampers being 70 % orange.
Fixing the "tire physics" in Y patch? GREAT JOB, just.. no words to explain how awesome it was. Racing on R3 tires, introducing R1s for FBM.. which are driven on 1.8 bar COLD pressure. Only thing being proven there is that LFS is developed and "fixed" on GUESSWORK ALONE, and there's plenty of people capable of providing the real life telemetry data to refine the model.
New rims on the FBM!!!!!!1111oneone OMGAWD, how could I have ever lived before those. Totally worth it.
Rotating brake discs!!!111 YAY ur the best devs!!1 I look at those all the time while I'm racing.
And ofcourse, let's not forget THE ONE, THE ONLYYYYYY - ARROW POINTING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHEN U EXIT THE PITS!!! WOOOUUU!U!U!U!!??!?!1
Fasgking get real. Fix the shit that is broken, dont add new stuff on top. And as far as cars go.. why is everyone so mad about FBM/Scirocco or any real world crap? Forget it. If they can model a Scirocco in 2 weeks to be ready for some german computers expo at the request of VW, then SURE AS HELL they can make an imaginary LMP car so we dont have to drive the SAME TIRED AND UNBALANCED GTR class since 2005. And it's IMAGINARY, no need to REFINE it to perfection.
I'm sorry if u find LX6 @ FE4R a rivetting combo and if you never get tired of driving different things in LFS. But if u put in any time into getting actually good at a particular class of cars, u WILL get bored. So just stop with the "if ur not happy go drive something else" arguments. Yes, I'm not happy. Yes, LFS is alpha software. No, most companies don't charge u for their alpha software, or even beta software. Am I gonna go drive something else? Already did, and physics wise it's not as good as LFS, so after the initial 2-3 days when u get over all the shiny new cars and tracks and actually have to drive a car for a couple of hours - it's not quite worth it. This isn't an argument for LFS to not do anything different cause it's still "better" than the rest. Just turn out more content. Track editor is obviously made and works quite fine. Car editor works well too. So use them and forget about arrows pointing out of pits.
I'ma go bring my blood pressure down.
IMO this is all very twaty behaviour by the devs.. first it's "we'll try and keep you in the loop since ur a loyal community", then it's "we don't have a timetable so you can't blame us for delays", then it's "we've decided to totally exclude you from the loop because of all the HATE we've received for delaying the December 2008 patch".. and now it's "oh new tire physics BUT we still don't know when and yes it totally clashes with what we've said couple of weeks ago but we're just gonna do what we want and not be true to anything we say".. and now yet again, rockingham is in a trackside simulator and there's "news" that it's gonna be in LFS obviously. Great move there, you can prolly anounce the rain/night racing too while ur at it, let's just announce things we plan to release in what, 10 years?
It's inconsistant behaviour resulting in a total loss of any respect from anyone with half a brain in the community. BTW great job on the big-long-awaited INTERIORS patch which was a great big poke in the eye while the FZR still has a wooden dash in a racing car.
Take a bow.
It's inconsistant behaviour resulting in a total loss of any respect from anyone with half a brain in the community. BTW great job on the big-long-awaited INTERIORS patch which was a great big poke in the eye while the FZR still has a wooden dash in a racing car.
Take a bow.
np, always here for u
nikopdr is a high mach! just like me :P meaning he's all but nice.
knew someone would come in with sarcasm :PYou can have as many laps as u want in one graph with motec 
and any other software (AIM race studio etc). Get started on that "large rewrite" it'd be the best improvement for now (to see exact transitions from brake to throttle, lateral g to longitudinal g etc).
and any other software (AIM race studio etc). Get started on that "large rewrite" it'd be the best improvement for now (to see exact transitions from brake to throttle, lateral g to longitudinal g etc).I've noticed that in the setup properties area there is an average temp of the tires, does this mean you can get the tire temp values out of the raf file? If so, would it be possible to add those data types (inside, middle and outside layer and maybe the math channel for the average)? And would those be the regular F9 temps inside the tire or the surface temps you can get by holding ctrl+shift?
One more thing, can you have graphs but with more data channels on each one? For example to have the brake and throttle channels on the same graph? Like in real telemetry softwares, that'd be a great addon.
One more thing, can you have graphs but with more data channels on each one? For example to have the brake and throttle channels on the same graph? Like in real telemetry softwares, that'd be a great addon.
Last edited by scipy, .
oh FFS, this is the 2nd time today someone in the forums called me SPICY. stop et.
Well I did mention in my post how the values would change according to a sine function.. but he asked for a maximum force/torque when using only a horizontal force
Erm, he argued the same point? Did you even read his post? He isn't saying he wants a clean track in front of him and to do some hotlaps, he just doens't see a point in racing people who are classes beneath him. i.e. he wants faster people on the server, and it's your problem if you can't keep up or the leader looks as if he's hotlapping.. improve and catch up.
U die for this insult.
LOL, you lack the basic understanding and ability to differentiate between "like" and "respect". From what you're saying you don't LIKE tristan because he is not "nice", but that has nothing to do with not "respecting" him. I didn't like the first croatian president, but I respected him and what he did i.e. got our country independence. Learn the difference.
This is the drawing of your case "simplified". 800 N is your weight, F(AH) is the horizontal reaction in point A, F(BV) is the vertical reaction in point B (your shoes), F(FR) is the friction force which will be F(FR)=F(BV)*miu where miu is 0.8 (coeffiecient of friction between your shoes and concrete).
Well height actually doesn't matter
If you have 80 kg (800 N) and your shoes are rubber bottoms standing on concrete (friction coefficient 0.8) then the maximum horizontal force you can produce is what friction force between your shoes and concrete can support - and that is 0.8*800 = 640 N (or around 64 kg, but force should never be expressed in kg, and since we don't know the surface area onto which ur pressing there's no need to involve pressure).
Now if you want to know the torque you are producing on that wheel/crank, just multiply 640 N with the radius of the wheel in meters. If the wheel is 0.3 m in radius that gives you 192 Nm of torque.
Again, this is only for the case when your crank handle is in the upmost position and you are pushing it ONLY with horizontal force, as the crank rotates and let's say comes to a 7 o'clock position you horizontal force would be very low and the vertical vector component would be the only force acting - then your max force would be your weight and the max torque would be 240 Nm. Basically over the 360° degrees of crank rotation your max torque would be a sinus function.
If you have 80 kg (800 N) and your shoes are rubber bottoms standing on concrete (friction coefficient 0.8) then the maximum horizontal force you can produce is what friction force between your shoes and concrete can support - and that is 0.8*800 = 640 N (or around 64 kg, but force should never be expressed in kg, and since we don't know the surface area onto which ur pressing there's no need to involve pressure).
Now if you want to know the torque you are producing on that wheel/crank, just multiply 640 N with the radius of the wheel in meters. If the wheel is 0.3 m in radius that gives you 192 Nm of torque.
Again, this is only for the case when your crank handle is in the upmost position and you are pushing it ONLY with horizontal force, as the crank rotates and let's say comes to a 7 o'clock position you horizontal force would be very low and the vertical vector component would be the only force acting - then your max force would be your weight and the max torque would be 240 Nm. Basically over the 360° degrees of crank rotation your max torque would be a sinus function.
Last edited by scipy, .
Oh, ok. In that case, how much do you weigh and what are your shoes made of (and what's the floor ur standing on made of)? And how high is this crank from the ground ur standing on.
Well I think your idea of having only one or two servers is flawed.. I for sure wouldn't drive more than once a month in some XRG/XFG server or FBM/FOX on combo's like SO6R or whatnot.. This is why it'd be great if a licensing system would be outside the server and then any server can pick it up.. so if I want to do endu races on thursday on TDRT server or do some FBM on a decent track the other day, I could choose for myself and not be forced into some track rotiations that I don't wanna drive.
Your way would just force everyone who wanted clean racing into a single server, not taking into consideration what they actually want to drive. It could work, but I doubt it. On the other hand, having more servers populated by good drivers who prefere their specific class of car would be uber.
Your way would just force everyone who wanted clean racing into a single server, not taking into consideration what they actually want to drive. It could work, but I doubt it. On the other hand, having more servers populated by good drivers who prefere their specific class of car would be uber.
Can u draw a better picture? Cause this is completley unclear.. I guess the maximum force you could exert with your hand would be either to push down on something with ur complete body weight or pull down it the same way..
I've thought about similar things for quite a while.. Sry to say but your application/idea might be a bit too "racist" There is an argument to be made about how will slower/mid level people progress if you just make them race against their peers and no faster people..
I know I've stalled in progress for the first 6 months until I got to be in team and drive MoE, further progress was made later in better teams (cyber and mercury).. The idea of CTRA was also kinda crap because if you only did enough km and races you would eventually get to a platinum license and be able to drive anything, and the sort of people I've met on the CTRA GTR server were just.. undiserving, they would sping a GT2 FXR in an almost straight line, they didn't have the meaning of blue flags (waved) down or any kind of common sense. I used to have such crashes there I'd lose my mind.. I start a race, get a lead, lead for 10 laps (on endu days) and on lap 11 some nub would join the race in a XFR and he would see no point in getting out of my way and the racing line becuase we were in "different classes"? Yes, but ur 10 laps down.. and then he'd actually try and argue about that with me..
Also, CTRA lacked the option of advancing fast people.. if you never drove CTRA (which many of the fast people didn't, like Sracer and some others) because it did feature a typical sort ot "talent".. if you wanted to race some of your team mates and didn't have a "license" you would have to waste weeks getting to it.
My idea was to have a governing body inside the LFS community, like the FIA is in real life. Now, I don't neccesarily mean exactly like FIA, because they stick their noses where they don't belong too often. But have someone who will issue licenses to drivers. This would be done ONLY manually (no insim no nothing) and I guess there'd have to be a web based database that would hold all the license information (like CTRA website had about each of their drivers). Then anyone who runs a public racing server could decide if they want to participate in our licensing programme or not. If they want, they'd run the insim application that would check a particular license when that driver would join the server and kick them if they didn't have a high enough level license. But we wouldn't force this down anyone's throat.. if you don't want ur server to run this license system, fine, but we would also know if the server has one or not.. so anyone who wanted quality racing just wouldn't drive on non-licensed servers.
I guess if Vic/Scawen could add tags for "cruise" servers into LFS, a tag for some kind of a "licensing system" could be added easily too, so when you refresh your host list you can pick so that it only shows licensed servers.
About the licensing itself: I didn't really think about what kind of licenses there would be, but obviously some people who are good in open wheel cars suck in heavy road cars or racing gt cars, but licenses themselves wouldn't be based on raw speed. What I'd care about in a system like that is that everyone had a brain, i.e. if someone is lapping you - be fair and predictable, move out of the way. If you're joining mid-race to figure out your setup for the next restart - stay out of everyone's way. When racing do so with absolutley no contact or pushing and stick to basic rules about defending and overtaking: if you are parallel and have the inside, the line is yours - outside driver can't push you out of the way or force his way beside you. Same if you don't have an overlap or ur behind, you lift and let him take the line, there will be no destruction-derby driving and then saying "sorry" when ur in front. Defending is allowed once and to return to your line, etc.
If you are half a sec slower per lap, you can race, it's not a problem. Just be clean and follow the rules, there just isn't enough simiarly-fast drivers so we can all finish within 2 tenths of each other at any given combo/race.
Ofcourse, to skip through all the unnecesarry work: a few "admins" would be picked (consistng of good drivers) and a list of people who would get A-level licenses would be made. There is just no point in having (insert-fast-guy-nick) drive some combos only to be "licensed", we know who is fast and who can race, licensing system would be there to avoid people who crash on public servers and don't know basic rules about racing. Also, if you go through the trouble of having urself licensed and read some of the material that will be prepared and go through the actual tests.. chances are you're not gonna wanna screw up intentionally and lose ur license.
There is an argument to be made about how will slower/mid level people progress if you just make them race against their peers and no faster people..I know I've stalled in progress for the first 6 months until I got to be in team and drive MoE, further progress was made later in better teams (cyber and mercury).. The idea of CTRA was also kinda crap because if you only did enough km and races you would eventually get to a platinum license and be able to drive anything, and the sort of people I've met on the CTRA GTR server were just.. undiserving, they would sping a GT2 FXR in an almost straight line, they didn't have the meaning of blue flags (waved) down or any kind of common sense. I used to have such crashes there I'd lose my mind.. I start a race, get a lead, lead for 10 laps (on endu days) and on lap 11 some nub would join the race in a XFR and he would see no point in getting out of my way and the racing line becuase we were in "different classes"? Yes, but ur 10 laps down.. and then he'd actually try and argue about that with me..
Also, CTRA lacked the option of advancing fast people.. if you never drove CTRA (which many of the fast people didn't, like Sracer and some others) because it did feature a typical sort ot "talent".. if you wanted to race some of your team mates and didn't have a "license" you would have to waste weeks getting to it.
My idea was to have a governing body inside the LFS community, like the FIA is in real life. Now, I don't neccesarily mean exactly like FIA, because they stick their noses where they don't belong too often. But have someone who will issue licenses to drivers. This would be done ONLY manually (no insim no nothing) and I guess there'd have to be a web based database that would hold all the license information (like CTRA website had about each of their drivers). Then anyone who runs a public racing server could decide if they want to participate in our licensing programme or not. If they want, they'd run the insim application that would check a particular license when that driver would join the server and kick them if they didn't have a high enough level license. But we wouldn't force this down anyone's throat.. if you don't want ur server to run this license system, fine, but we would also know if the server has one or not.. so anyone who wanted quality racing just wouldn't drive on non-licensed servers.
I guess if Vic/Scawen could add tags for "cruise" servers into LFS, a tag for some kind of a "licensing system" could be added easily too, so when you refresh your host list you can pick so that it only shows licensed servers.
About the licensing itself: I didn't really think about what kind of licenses there would be, but obviously some people who are good in open wheel cars suck in heavy road cars or racing gt cars, but licenses themselves wouldn't be based on raw speed. What I'd care about in a system like that is that everyone had a brain, i.e. if someone is lapping you - be fair and predictable, move out of the way. If you're joining mid-race to figure out your setup for the next restart - stay out of everyone's way. When racing do so with absolutley no contact or pushing and stick to basic rules about defending and overtaking: if you are parallel and have the inside, the line is yours - outside driver can't push you out of the way or force his way beside you. Same if you don't have an overlap or ur behind, you lift and let him take the line, there will be no destruction-derby driving and then saying "sorry" when ur in front. Defending is allowed once and to return to your line, etc.
If you are half a sec slower per lap, you can race, it's not a problem. Just be clean and follow the rules, there just isn't enough simiarly-fast drivers so we can all finish within 2 tenths of each other at any given combo/race.
Ofcourse, to skip through all the unnecesarry work: a few "admins" would be picked (consistng of good drivers) and a list of people who would get A-level licenses would be made. There is just no point in having (insert-fast-guy-nick) drive some combos only to be "licensed", we know who is fast and who can race, licensing system would be there to avoid people who crash on public servers and don't know basic rules about racing. Also, if you go through the trouble of having urself licensed and read some of the material that will be prepared and go through the actual tests.. chances are you're not gonna wanna screw up intentionally and lose ur license.
I LOVE U TRISTAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneone
Seriously, stop using argument fallacies. Helical gears have been around for decades, it was THEIR fault for not using them because straight cut gears are cheaper to produce. Stop being an ignorant dick, or at least try to.
lol, really? is that the tristancliffe iron-clad conclusion? cmon, if the newb is depending on you guys for advice the least u could do is provide him with all the information and let him choose the one that fits him the best. extrapolating conclusions that "your way" is better than "other guy's way" because it took him 5 years longer to reach your level of driving is just invalid.
i flew off track loads of times in my starting days, and i had huge problems controling any type of RWD.. but i didnt start with UF1 or XRG, i went straight for the FZR and didnt waste time driving over eggshells in order to improve. conclusion - same things dont work for everyone.
and as far as advice for the new guy goes, pm me and i'll start u off with 2 books that'll give u the theory necessary to recognize your own mistakes and improve.
Did I quote you? Actually, what you said might be the only good thing to come out of this otherwise "great" idea.
-irtep- says (17:00):
come on, his from liethunia or something, those countries which even russia rejected
so how bad can it be
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG