It's a bird!
-- A bird?
It's a plane!
-- A plane?

No!! It's... Physics Man!

<fx: Scawen speeding past (in Shift-F view), with roaring engine and screaming tires>

Quote from XCNuse :

It isn't allowed, it is against your license agreement, it says never give away your license and password.

IMHO the intention of that rule is to prevent people from "time-sharing" an account. There is no specific statement about transferring an account. (The problem is that there is no token representing the licence, that can be passed on. The password IS the token.)

Quote :

BECAUSE OF OUR TECHNOLOGY,WE DONT HAVE TO BUY

Translation: I know how to Google for game cracks.

Quote from Becky Rose :

tyre temperature should fluctuate far more than it does now, which currently seems to be a gradual rise. This may represent the average temperaure of the tyre, but in my experience tyre have a much greater fluctuation in temperature than LFS models.

In my experience LFS does have some short-term heatup, because after I have spun the car I find that the wheels have less grip in the next corner (often causing me to spin again ). The next corner, things are back to normal. This heatup is not visible in the F9 screen.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

My friend has evidence on her msn via message history, where he explains to her that he is going to damage my car

Send a copy of the printout to his home. Then he knows that (a) you know where he lives, (b) you have some evidence if he acts to his plans, and (c) your friend has passed the info to you, so she (a female!) probably thinks he is a loser. And if he lives with his parents, they might find out about the brawl, which may be an extra source of embarrassment.

A multiplayer replay is not a very good base to analyse your driving, because your inputs are only stored 4 times per second. (LFS "guesses" the car's movement in-between.)

For a closer analysis you can use a replay analyser. You need to drive a couple of laps in single-player or hotlap mode. When you have done a good lap, press "1" to view the replay. When the replay is in the lap that precedes the good one, press "Esc" and select
"Save output data". Continue viewing the replay until the lap has completed. LFS will save telemetry data in a .raf file, in folder lfs\data\raf. This file can be read by the analyser.

You can compare your own driving with the World Record by downloading its .spr replay from LFS World, and creating a .raf file from it in the same way. Load both .raf files in the analyser and see where you lose time. (Note: if you are several seconds slower than the WR, it may be better to compare your lap with someone who is just 1 second faster.)

Quote from Crashgate3 :

I take it it's 'thing' is that it's just an ordinary 1 litre Panda engine, just tuned to within an inch of it's life?

It sounds like one, but maybe the noise was just an MP3 played by the sound system.

Other genres not in the poll:
- V12
- Inline 4 with VTEC
- Flat 6 with turbo
- Tyres at the limit of adhesion

Quote from wsinda :

You get maximum flexibility if the rules are declared in the shape of a program. Suppose that the server sends the client a JavaScript function. The function takes a setup as input, and returns a boolean result.

Oops, made a thinking error there: the script must be pretty limited in its power, if you really want to keep the setup confidential. For instance, the function can't be allowed to make an HTTP call, because that enables a malevolent script to send the setup data elsewhere.

Quote from rjm1982 :

Even then, its not part of the core, and by default, will be seperated from the core, making it ingerently limited.

I don't think of InSim as limited. You can do a lot with it, both for retrieving data from the engine and for controlling the game engine. Have a look at the CTRA X-system; it uses InSim's possibilities to the fullest.

The downside to InSim is that writing an application is not for beginners. (The upside is that the performance penalty is lower than with scripting.) That could be solved by building a scripting engine of top of InSim, like the_angry_angel did with luaLFS.

EDIT: Hm. I may have been talking nonsense. Had a look at UnrealScript and TorqueScript, and they look far more advanced than where LFS is now.

To get back to the original topic, LFS would need an extra feature: to let the client execute a piece of code that it gets from the server (which may have got it from an InSim application). I expect this will be very complicated, so it will have to wait until S3 is designed.

Last edited by wsinda, Fri 1 Feb 2008, 22:39.

Forget it guys, this iRacing stuff is not meant for you. At least, that's what I conclude after reading this on their site:

Quote :

With the unparalleled accuracy and authenticity of its racing simulations, and its position of influence within the new and growing sport of simracing, iRacing.com's primary audience is the global motorsport market, including professional and amateur drivers, engineers and other industry professionals, as well as racing fans around the world. Within North America, that market includes an estimated 451,000 active participants with a median household income of $98,500 and well-established brand loyalty. But iRacing.com's reach extends well beyond the racing enthusiast and the confines of the North American continent.

As viewership for traditional, television-based entertainment continues to fragment and decline, the popularity of interactive, broadband-enabled entertainment is on the rise. Last year 1.4 million people spent $344 million for online gaming subscriptions, and Massively Multi-Player Online Games (MMOGs) have attracted an estimated 25 – 30 million participants worldwide. Sports Sims will soon replace the traditional passive TV sports audience experience, redefining what "sports entertainment" is at its core.

Looks like iRacing is aimed at two groups:

1. People who run a real race car, and need maximum accuracy of physics (but don't care much for graphical perfection).
   
2. People who like to watch races (be it online or real).

The first group will happily pay the subscription, if they get accurate physics. The second group won't have to pay, because they will use a free "spectator" application (think LFS Remote).

The average LFS user is neither. LFS has imaginary tracks, and most cars are either imaginary or out of reach for amateur/semi-pro racers. And LFS'ers want to race themselves, not just sit watching.

Notice that the cars that will be in iRacing are standardized and/or produced in series. I don't think you will ever drive high-profile cars like LMP, F1, or WTCC, because if they were modeled to perfection they would leak trade secrets.

Last edited by wsinda, Wed 30 Jan 2008, 22:31.

I like ACCAkut's approach better. If you really want to protect setups, the check must be done client-side, and the server must send its rules. The rules are public data anyway, so snooping is not a problem.

An important issue is flexibility of rules. In duke_toaster's suggestion you can only define a range for each value. You can't fit in rjm1982's example, where the acceptable choices for one setting (tyre type) depend on the value of some other setting (gear). And rjm1982's suggestion has fixed rule sets, so driver-dependent rules (e.g., a driver with a Gold license must carry 50kg of ballast) are impossible.

You get maximum flexibility if the rules are declared in the shape of a program. Suppose that the server sends the client a JavaScript function. The function takes a setup as input, and returns a boolean result. If the server rules are simple, the admin can write the script and store it as a file on the server. For more complex rules, like the one that depends on the license, you would need an InSim app that generates a validation script on-the-fly.

It is getting pretty complicated, though. Scawen needs to incorporate a scripting engine into LFS, and make an RPC-like mechanism on top of InSim. All of this to get some extra protection of setup data.

If you have a little money to spare, buy a second-hand wheel (a good guide can be found here). I found a good one for about the price of an S2 license.

Mouse + kb driving is an option. It should be easier than kb alone, but be prepared for a new learning curve. (Plus a second one when you eventually get a wheel.)

Quote from The Moose :

Fantastic Tristan. You have sunk to a new low.

Two posts later:

Quote from tristancliffe :

The difference is that they aren't absolutely sick of you. Yet.

Record broken.

Tristan must be getting close to absolute zero now...

lerts, you are courageous to still be posting here.

Quote from lerts :

you are a bunch of sheep you let the society do your thinking

folklore has plenty examples of telepathy but you ignore them and adapt to what the media tells you to think

Tell me, why should folklore be a more reliable source of knowledge than "the media"? What makes it trustworthy? That many people have believed it to be true, for many years? Well, people also thought that the Earth is flat, that lightning is the wrath of the gods, and that diseases are caused by putrid fumes.

Do you believe your own perception? You must have seen pictures of optical illusions: straight lines that seem to be curved, equal length lines that look like they aren't, etcetera. You can check, measure, and decide that your eyes were wrong. So, if you experience something that seems like ESP, how do you know that it is not an illusion? How can you be sure that it is not just wishful thinking?

Quote :

folklore versus system media, whos gonna tell the truth comon folk or george bush

I'm very skeptical of both.

Quote from lerts :

if we ever are gonna be telepathic

What? You mean you don't know yet??

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I'm pretty sure Americans are stupid. Just look at all of the presidents elected after Reagan.

Three stupid presidents do not a whole nation of morons make. (OK, four. Reagan fits in.) But you have a point there.

<puts finger back in dike>

Quote from hyntty :

Yes, it was a mathematical question. Now you've calculated it by presuming that the coins are taken out one at the time, but I clearly said the coins will be out simultaniously.

It's the same.

(Except if the first coin, after having been drawn, will be put back in the bag. In that case the probability is 2/9 * 2/9 + 2/9 * 4/9 * 2 = 20/72 = 5/18. But that is ludicrous because you were gonna use the coins for a payment. Aquilifer's calculation is correct.)

Despite persistent rumours Rossi still denies use of LSD.

-----

Performance problems for Yamaha
Rossi: "It's faster to walk"

Quote from wien :

Basic survival is no longer an issue for most of us, it's more down to who reproduce the most.

If you reproduce but your offspring is too dumb to get laid or to get a job(*), you family tree will soon wither.

*: Economic status is still a good indicator of life expectancy.

Quote from duke_toaster :

If it was handled by the server rather than an InSim app, there's no reason for a prompt.

The point of leaving it to an InSim app is that when it comes to setup restrictions there are myriads of variations. Some examples:

• Fixed setups, one for each car in the LRF class.
  
• XFGs must carry extra weight, to even out against the UF1.
  
• RB4s can't use hybrid tires, so XRTs stand a chance on a rallycross track.
  
• Setups that make use of the "high nose" bug are forbidden. (Okay, that bug has been fixed, but imagine that a new physics flaw is discovered.)
  
• Drivers who have already won a race this month must carry one passenger.

You can't expect Scawen to put all of that in LFS. And even if he did, the next day someone would get a great idea for a league with a new kind of setup restriction.

If you leave all that to an external add-on, things will be much more flexible. There may even be several add-ons, to cater for different needs. And it will not burden Scawen, so he can spend his time on other nice features.


The downside is, indeed, that setups can be "stolen": the creator of the add-on and the server admin could decide to store the setups for their own use. Does that create a new problem? I don't think so. My guess is that setup data is already exchanged between client and server, and possibly even among clients. (LFS needs at least part of the setup to simulate a car's behaviour between updates.) Therefore, anyone who is adept at packet sniffing or memory peeking can already steal your setups.

You might say that my suggestion makes theft easier. In that case it would be good if LFS gave a warning when you connect to a server that uses setup validation.

Quote from Woz :

I raised a similar idea recently TBH. One that would allow insim control over player setups on the server.

Sorry if I duplicated your idea (got a link?). I only checked the stickied threads on this subforum.

Quote from Inouva :

And the keyboard and mouse player, if dont use "low force brake" how do think we breake propely without block the wheels??

I know, I have been a mouse driver until recently. I also like brake force the way it is (as you can see in this thread). But there is demand for this kind of thing.

My suggestion is to make it possible to check the setup at the server. The admin can choose to restrict setups (but he will need some extra tooling for it). Then it's your choice to join and race at this server, or go to an "unrestricted" server instead.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

A bit like the global warming THEORY ( prepaires for flaming ) if anyone disagrees then their a heretic and a complete idiot with no knowledge.

I see you have the same misconception of what "theory" means as creationists.

When someone has just thought of a nice idea, it's called a hypothesis or a conjecture. Then, if there is experimental data that supports it (and a fair amount of it), and none that contradicts it, it can be called a theory. The theory may be uprooted later, when new data becomes available, or when another theory appears that explains the facts better.

So, when you say that global warming is a theory, there is no need to duck the flames: there is indeed a lot of evidence that supports it. There are scientists who have a different explanation for the facts, and they may be proved right.

(And on both sides of the debate you will also find complete idiots with no knowledge. Like Alex Jones.)

Quote from duke_toaster :

Quote from JTbo :

But also as side effect it brings often good, it builds individual self confidence they would lack otherwise and thus helps them achieve more than they would otherwise in life, some religions also serve safety net and also keep people from killing each other.

That's often argued, but that generally isn't the case.

Yes, from a scientific viewpoint, it is the case.

Evolutionary theory says that any stable characteristic that is found in a species must be beneficial to its survival, or has been in the past. Religion has been around for a long time, so it must have given an advantage.

Caveats:

• This does not imply that it is beneficial for you as an individual. You can use the same reasoning on some other phenomena, such as infanticide, cannibalism and rape.
  
• Nor does it imply that religious views are factually correct. (Phew!)
  
• And neither does it mean that it will continue to be an advantage to us in the future. (So it might still be a good idea to get rid of it.)
  
• Richard Dawkins has argued that religion could be merely a side-effect of some other trait, and that it's the other trait that brings the advantage for survival. But I found his arguments weak, and they have been countered by David Sloan Wilson here. (Other interesting discussions on the topic can be found here.)

Quote from Mazz4200 :

So, can anyone explain the mystery of where all my socks have gone ? I bought six new pairs last month, and now i can only find two.

Just keep wearing the remaining two. Sooner or later they will lead you to the place where the others hide.

This suggestion is not about a certain change to LFS. Rather, it's about a mechanism that will make a number of other suggestions possible, such as:

• Mandatory use of a standard setup.
  
• Enforce particular settings that have been prescribed for the league (e.g. standard tires or gear ratios).
  
• Limit setup options for road-going cars.
  
• Lock out particular settings that are deemed unfair or unrealistic (e.g. hybrid tires on road tracks, low brake force).
  
• Enforce handicaps for individual drivers.

The general way how this would work is:

1. When the driver leaves the garage to join the race, LFS sends the setup to the server.
   
2. The server passes the setup data to an external add-on (using InSim).
   
3. The add-on checks the setup against the local rules.
   
4. If the setup is not acceptable, the add-on spectates the driver, and sends a message to explain what is wrong with the setup.

The advantage of this construction is that Scawen doesn't have to look at each suggestion, decide if he wants to program it, and spend time making it. The same holds for other ideas in this area that may come up in the future.

Possible extensions:

• The add-on modifies the setup to make it compliant, and sends it back to the driver.
  
• In the list of servers, you see a flag that indicates that the server uses setup validation.

Wow, one thread, so many discussions. Hard to make a choice.

Quote from Racer Y :

Y'all think Tom Cruise and John Travolta will star in a buddy comedy together?

Naww. Cruise looks like the kind of guy who hasn't yet grasped the concept of humor. And never will.

Quote from Polyracer :

But for me you know, God really blew it when yet again, when I was even 11 years old for chrisake, - I did not get a bicycle for Christmas.

Then your belief failed at the first hurdle. If you are "true believer" material, you can keep your faith against all factual evidence. You can even say that it's easy to see there's no Santa Claus, yet that the Lord's existence is unquestioned.

You failed the test. Congrats, and welcome to Skeptics Anonymous.

Quote :

I don't know but it scares me if I look at the changes, and the rate of acceleration in the changes in all things around the world, I honestly believe that we have well past the point of no return, and we are all dead men walking, I reckon 25 years tops, but law and order such as it is, will break down long before then.

Then things have improved lately.

In the 70s it was said we'd die of poverty because we used up Earth's resources, in 20 years' time.
In the 80s folks believed that "they" would drop the bomb soon, and the radiation would kill us all within 10 years.
Now mankind's life expectancy has risen to 25 years. Things are looking up.