Hi Everyone,

I've been trying to mathematically model a torque converter in MATLAB Simulink and have been having issues with some conceptual problems. The first one deals with negative torque going through a torque converter. Say we were to apply engine braking or regenerative braking via an engine/motor. Would there still be a torque multiplication? Can we even apply a negative torque through a torque converter or would the lock-up clutch need to be engaged?

Thanks!

Subjective is fine because force feedback is personal preference. It's just that I don't have my wheel or rig on campus :P I've always liked to take a car out for a spin and see if I'm able to hold a drift and that's always been a fine indicator.

Perhaps, comment on the below.

Is the driver able to "feel" the weight transfer of the vehicle?
Are the forces on the wheel feel dynamic or do they feel like they are just pre-recorded effects?

Standard hardware: something like DFGT or G27.

Hi guys,

I am currently doing a study on different types of racing simulators for a school project. One of the criteria I've set up is the quality of the force feedback. Would you guys be able to share your experiences/thoughts on these sims with LFS or perhaps Assetto Corsa as a benchmark?

- RACER
- CarSim
- X-Motor Racing
- rFactor
- TORCS
- Live For Speed
- Assetto Corsa

Try making a copy of the Hard Track setup and change the diff to locked, the rear tires to knobs.

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

play around with the setup to make it better and practice...a lot.

Do NOT play around with the setup. Get one from Setupgrid or just use the Hard Track setup provided to you and practice with that. If you change your setup all the time, how do you know if it was you or the setup. Find youtube videos online and watch how it is done (both in sim and in real life). The idea with drifting is you are intentionally causing the rear tires to break traction all while using your front wheels to determine your direction of travel (via your steering wheel). How you cause this break of traction is up to you. But the simplest ones are the emergency break or simply flooring the gas pedal (in a RWD car)

This post is a little bit misleading. If you turned in earlier, your clipping point would be earlier and so your required turning radius would be relatively higher on corner exit. You would require more centripetal force from your tires and so you would be able get on the throttle later, not earlier. I think you are overthinking the problem here with the "delayed weight transfer". It really comes down to the WRs having a better setup or being more smooth if they are taking an earlier apex than you.

Quote from vitaly_m :

Quote from S.E.T.H :

...
the best way to go through a corner fast is to hit the apex (mostly) that will give you the widest angle, allowing you to carry more speed through a corner.
...

Generally it is correct, but I remember that when I was comparing my trajectory with faster guys I found that sometimes people go for a little narrower trajectory in the turns. And they were faster. I couldn't figure out why.

Then after some time I found it out (I hope). They were turning in earlier, very smooth but their steering was increasing to the very apex and on the exit they could throttle earlier and probably more efficient, so that their narrow exit ended up with meeting the outside of the turn because of counter-steering needed to balance the car on throttle.

Such turns enters are needed because of delayed weight transfer. If you start to turn say 1 meeter earlier than geometrical circle line suggests you trajectory becomes narrower, but your outer side of the car gets more load so you have probably more speed and traction through the apex.

Sometimes it can help and sometimes not however.

Nope, unless they added that functionality into the newer Driving Force GT. Mine is almost 6 years old and it's gotten louder but its nowhere like that. That's Driving Force Pro loudness there.

Probably due to the low end microcontrollers in the gamepads but I felt that these new gamepads had these horrendous deadzones in the middle which made it impossible to do anything from racing to flight sim. The older Logitech Dual Actions did a better job, imo.

Quote from Kid222 :

Maybe if you pull your head out of your arse, you will see what is wrong with your demands. Go to the thinking corner and ponder about what have you done.

Maybe if you pull your head out of your arse, you'll notice that OP is just making a suggestion not a demand. Maybe if you get off your S2 high horse, you'll notice that he's a human too (hopefully) and he's done nothing to warrant such a rude reply.

When I was working on one of my OutSim projects, I don't remember there being a value specific for lap completion or distance travelled. To get distance traveled:

1) I found the time interval between two packets by subtracting their time signatures (they were in m/s iirc). The problem here is that the time interval between packets was not constant.
2) Multiplied this time interval by the speed of the car to get a distance travelled for this time.
3) Added all these distances in Step 2 together.

The time interval is pretty small (can be from 10 - 20m/s) and therefore provided accurate distances.

I saw these posts coming from a mile away. lol

I think these are great ideas.

Is Force Feedback enabled in the Controller options menu?

Thank you all for the responses. I'm starting to understand this better. So ARBs would affect how much weight transfer is being "reacted" by each axle. But this is kind of where it gets a little counter-intuitive for me. A stiffer ARB leads to more weight transfer at that axle.

Taking a right hand corner as an example, the right side suspensions get depressed, causing the right end of the torsion bars upwards. A very stiff ARB would mean that the left torsion bar is deflected upwards as well, reducing roll and forcing the left wheel to be placed on the ground. - Or - does the chassis continue to roll and the ARB actually tucks the inside wheel into the chassis, pulling it away from the ground?

Also, F:R weight distribution doesn't change even though through changing ARB settings, each axle reacts with different weight transfer loads?

Last edited by GenesisX, Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:15.

Recycling this thread here. I've read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-roll_bar

that stiffer ARBs increase weight transfer. But I've been taught that weight transfer is a function of Centripetal acceleration, car weight, c.g height and track width. Confused here

Quote from FPVaaron :

Oh please continue to explain to me how all of you honestly take in full seriousness a LFS licensed member for more than a decade is actually suggesting adding a feature of coloured nitros purge to add to the effect of VIP camber on the start grid. Don't forget to cover your eyes too and fight your concious mind of detecting blatantly obvious sarcastic humor. While at the same time completely ignoring any kind of legitimate suggestion.

Haha, I understood your sarcasm brother. Definitely some good suggestions that shouldn't take too much to implement.

Does LFS automatically intercept that information?

I am currently trying to use FaceTrack NoIR to control a virtual joystick. This virtual joystick outputs axes in 6DOF that I am trying to use to control the view of my cockpit. I believe I have them properly configured in the Options panel but I don't see any roll/pitch/heading movement in the cockpit.

Alternatively, how would I interface FT so that it sends info to LFS?

Quote from bishtop :

lol,you have me in stiches with laughter, Your the one living in bubble,so welcome to the big wide world. Its a game where everyday there is software piracy and and in the real world theres wars happening and people starving and other actual serious things so please dont expect me to see such things as important or of value

This argument is pretty irrelevant. In the real world, there's rape and murder. Just because it is happening doesn't make it right. Maybe you're the type of guy who jumps off a building because everyone else is and wants to fit in.

Quote from Forbin :

I beg to differ.





You're both ignoring how personal setups are.

If someone beats you on track, regardless of whether they have your setup or not, regardless of whether you have their setup or not, you're simply not as good on track as them. Deal with it.

Setup building is just as important as racing. If setups were so trivial, why don't you build YOUR OWN setup and race me. If you can still beat me, then you are a better racer. If you can't, then you aren't.

Quote from Forbin :

False equivalence is false.

Stealing an Oreo or some amount of currency deprives someone else of same. This is not the case with information.

It does. It deprives them of a potential win that they could've had if you didn't STEAL their setup. According to you, stealing trade secrets, or plagiarizing publications and papers is fine. It's ONLY information.

Quote from bishtop :

and where did the set you use originate from,someone else i bet !
Granted you may have altered to your liking but and style

Many use someone elses setup as a base to work from

And who uploaded that original set? Oh right, the guy who made the set. And why did he upload it? Because he didn't mind sharing tens of thousands of people. But that's not the case with everyone else. Maybe it is time to get out of your bubble and understand that not everyone shares your ideals. Just because you don't mind sharing your work does not mean others don't either. And I'm not saying I'm against sharing. I'm just saying that those who choose not to share should have the right to do so. Whether it is a few numbers in a text file, an Oreo cookie or 32 billion dollars, stealing/copying other people's work is wrong. That is something you should've learned in kindergarten.

Have you checked the game's FFB settings? AFAIK, some SimBin games have horrible FFB - some are really weak, and some are just mundane and provide the driver with no information. Check around and see if those games have guides to tweak FFB. I remember rFactor had the RealFeel plugin. Perhaps there are equivalents for those games as well.

http://simracing.wikia.com/wik ... ng_Guide_for_Simbin_Games

Simple little project, took about 2.5 hrs which was longer than expected. I ended up using the Act Labs RS pedal interface that the seller gave me for free. Two problems with this build are the short USB cable which will be solved using a small footprint USB extension cable, and the potentiometer movement showing up as only ~80% of the axis travel on the computer. I used DXTweak2 and it works really well. I'm still getting used to the stiffer brake pedal which is killing my laptimes but I think I will get used to it.

Quote from przemek21061995 :

I asked a pretty, young, homeless woman if I could take her home, and she said yes with a big smile.

The look on her face soon changed when I walked off with her cardboard box.

Thanks for getting my hopes up. I was looking forward to an erotic story that I could wank off to.