Holy shit!
And.. yaaay! Grats to Valtteri Bottas!
Nice pole position Vale! 
Just resurrecting a thread here..
Just resurrecting a thread here..Ah, great suggestions, thanks! I'll try that. 
Customizing G27 wheel
For about half a year now I have the Logitech G27. I love it. H-shifter feels kinda cheap, but the pedals are okay and the wheel itself gives great feedback and I've even improved a bit. Before this I had a Logitech MOMO Racing. The thing about the G27 is that the steering wheel itself is so thin. It also has a pretty big diameter. If you look at a real racing wheel or a custom G27 wheel, you can see how thick the grip is (or what's the proper name for it?).
Instead of buying a custom wheel I'd really like to make the grip thicker, myself without making the wheel bigger. So a bit more grip on the inside/front. Maybe some kind of thick foam or something? How could I go about doing this?
Instead of buying a custom wheel I'd really like to make the grip thicker, myself without making the wheel bigger. So a bit more grip on the inside/front. Maybe some kind of thick foam or something? How could I go about doing this?
You're right, I should start with a bit simpler stuff.
Thanks, I will!
Cool. Thanks for the link, I've been readling a lot of stuff about engines since yesterday. Guess I'll have to learn about them quite a bit before I can ask more direct questions.
Ah, thanks!
Well, you can try SPEAR: http://www.klingbeil.com/spear/
It analyzes audio and then synthesizes that. It does so pretty well. Here's an example: http://i.imgur.com/oCEHcnZ.jpg
It's from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaJKTRs-Kg So it's the external sound. So yea, doppler effect plays a major role, but that's not important for now. The reverb from the buildings and trees changes the sound too. But onboard video's have such a crappy audio quality, that's very hard to analyze that. Anyway, in this instance it's driving away, so the pitch is lower than the actual revs. 200 Hz = 12000 RPM. Makes sense. I filtered out all 'partials' below -20dB, so only the loudest sine-waves are kept. So, the lowest is just over 200 Hz (G3/G#3), the next is just over 500 Hz (B4/C5). That's indeed an octave and a third interval. The next note is +/- 720 Hz. An F#5? Huh? Then C6/C#6, then over 1000 Hz (makes sense), then another G# and a C and then +/- 2600 Hz, about a D#7 or E7. This could be a harmonic overtone of the G3/G#3 note?
So the hardest thing is to get a very clean engine sound. If you listen to the video I mentioned, you can hear quite heavy shifting, backfiring and traction control very prominently. The quality of the recordings is very bad too. I don't think I have ever heard a recording of an F1 car that sounded even close to it in real life. I've even tried analyzing a V10 in LFS (3L V10, made with LFSTweaker), but even then.. The sound is so complicated, with so many partials, it's hard to see which ones really matter. And even then you get only an impression. It's like talking to someone through the phone, you can still recognize their voice, but it's not the full voice.
About the source of the sound then. You mention the intake valves and exhaust valves. What are they and what do they do exactly to produce a sound? And what sound(s)?
I have indeed noticed that the more regular it fires, the 'tighter' the sound is. The tighter the sound is, the more it is associated with fast cars, I think. About the exhaust. I listened to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP0wzXlWkPA. The character of the sound seems to be about the same, except the filtering, the eq is different. In other words, they are the same partials, but with different volumes. That's what I'm hearing.
Hmm right. Well this only gives me more questions. I want to get the essence right, at least, and then see what I'm missing..
I'd also be very happy if anyone knows someone who might be able to help. I have to start somewhere.
I'd also be very happy if anyone knows someone who might be able to help. I have to start somewhere.
What really makes an engine sound
Dear LFSers,
Here are a few questions about the sound of an engine. In particular the sound of a V10 Formula 1 engine.
I'm a composer and for a music piece I'm writing I want to show the way I sometimes hear an engine: as music. I want to look at an engine in a musical way.
There are 2 reasons I'm picking a V10 engine: nostalgia (do I really have to explain this one?) and a more musical reason. Every sound is made up of multiple different sine waves: harmonics. Every wave can be seen as a musical note. In a V10 there are 2 waves which are very prominent. The fundamental (the bottom note), which I think is basicly the rpm (18000 rpm = 300 rotations per second, or Hz). The other one, appearantly, is an octave and a third above that one. If the bottom. Note is 300 Hz, or just above a D4 the other note is just above an F#5, around 750 Hz. But why?
This blog explains a few things.
http://formula1guitar.blogspot ... years-ago-new-engine.html
From what I understand, a cylinder makes an explosion every other time it makes 2 rotations. So, if the fundamental is 300 Hz, you get 300 / 2 * 10 = 1500 Hz. But that's twice the frequency of what you hear. Why? How does he arrive at that other note, 750 Hz in my example? And, if it does make 1 rotation every other time a cylinder fires, do you hear that note (150Hz, a D3) too? And what exactly ARE those sounds?
Am I right when I say that that 1500Hz is made up of 1500 explosions per second? What is the sound of one rotation? How does a single explosion from a cylinder sound? What makes that explosion? The fuel combusting, right? So those 2 notes aren't pure sine waves, they are much more complex. They are made up of explosions, each with their own set of harmonics.
And then there are the other sounds. In what way does the exhaust change the sound? Does it resonate, depending on the length and width of the pipe? How can I calculate that? Which other sounds are there? How does the gear sound? Where does that sound come from? Where does that backfire sound come from? Why does it backfire? Of course, in those days they had traction control. What makes that sound?
I realize this is all quite technical and goes quite deep. I'd like to create a full understanding of the sound. Maybe even to recreate the sound. I tried to fiddle around with LFS' sounds. With that I think I got a fundamental, then the 1st harmonic an octave up and then a second harmonic another octave and a third on top of that.
Who can help me with this? Is there anyone who can explain a few things about the way engines work, or about synthesizing a car engine?
Some other intersting things I found so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyur9neCmPs
http://youtu.be/DzhFRpJHAwQ (he also explains a bit about the major 3rd note).
I would love to hear it, if anyone knows something about this. Thanks!
Here are a few questions about the sound of an engine. In particular the sound of a V10 Formula 1 engine.
I'm a composer and for a music piece I'm writing I want to show the way I sometimes hear an engine: as music. I want to look at an engine in a musical way.
There are 2 reasons I'm picking a V10 engine: nostalgia (do I really have to explain this one?) and a more musical reason. Every sound is made up of multiple different sine waves: harmonics. Every wave can be seen as a musical note. In a V10 there are 2 waves which are very prominent. The fundamental (the bottom note), which I think is basicly the rpm (18000 rpm = 300 rotations per second, or Hz). The other one, appearantly, is an octave and a third above that one. If the bottom. Note is 300 Hz, or just above a D4 the other note is just above an F#5, around 750 Hz. But why?
This blog explains a few things.
http://formula1guitar.blogspot ... years-ago-new-engine.html
From what I understand, a cylinder makes an explosion every other time it makes 2 rotations. So, if the fundamental is 300 Hz, you get 300 / 2 * 10 = 1500 Hz. But that's twice the frequency of what you hear. Why? How does he arrive at that other note, 750 Hz in my example? And, if it does make 1 rotation every other time a cylinder fires, do you hear that note (150Hz, a D3) too? And what exactly ARE those sounds?
Am I right when I say that that 1500Hz is made up of 1500 explosions per second? What is the sound of one rotation? How does a single explosion from a cylinder sound? What makes that explosion? The fuel combusting, right? So those 2 notes aren't pure sine waves, they are much more complex. They are made up of explosions, each with their own set of harmonics.
And then there are the other sounds. In what way does the exhaust change the sound? Does it resonate, depending on the length and width of the pipe? How can I calculate that? Which other sounds are there? How does the gear sound? Where does that sound come from? Where does that backfire sound come from? Why does it backfire? Of course, in those days they had traction control. What makes that sound?
I realize this is all quite technical and goes quite deep. I'd like to create a full understanding of the sound. Maybe even to recreate the sound. I tried to fiddle around with LFS' sounds. With that I think I got a fundamental, then the 1st harmonic an octave up and then a second harmonic another octave and a third on top of that.
Who can help me with this? Is there anyone who can explain a few things about the way engines work, or about synthesizing a car engine?
Some other intersting things I found so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyur9neCmPs
http://youtu.be/DzhFRpJHAwQ (he also explains a bit about the major 3rd note).
I would love to hear it, if anyone knows something about this. Thanks!
Yea, this. So much. That was awesome.
Ok, and then saying that Hans Zimmer is classical.. Auch. I don't like putting music into boxes and labelling them, but calling Hans Zimmer classical (thus comparing it to Beethoven or whatever) isn't really going to work. Mind you, I like his music.. Sort of.. But it's just music for film. And from that perspective, yeah it works, it's nice and it works, but it's a totally different craft.
Most kinds of music have their own way of being good, original, creative pieces of craftsmanship. But music can be defined in a lot of ways. Music can be anything that involves sound (or the lack of it; silence is a musical note as well) that is structured or organised and has to purpose to make you listen. Personally I like music that is original or well crafted, so yea, that involves a wide variety of music, but it also excludes quite a lot. :P
Yea. I think there are a lot more penalties given nowadays. I don't really get why that is..
I was watching the Japanese GP from 2005 the other day, in lap 10 or so, Alonso passes Klien on the outside in the chicane, but he runs wide and goes of. He rejoins the track immediately and lets Klien pass him on the beginning of the straight. Halfway the straight, Alonso is on his tail again and passes him on the inside in T1.
Remind you of something? What was it, Belgium GP, a year ago (or 2)? Hamilton doing exactly the same (chicane, straight, T1..) and got a penalty.
I mean, they just give too many penalties. It's not as if everyone would hit each other off if they didn't give the penalties.. Every spectacular action is being penalised. No wonder F1 is considered boring by so many people.
EDIT: I have to correct myself here. Alonso let Klien past again a few laps later, he probably got a message that that wasn't allowed. It was solved in a nice way.. However, I do have the feeling that there are more penalties being given now, because of some spectacular 'on the edge' actions. I wonder if there are any statistics about this..
I was watching the Japanese GP from 2005 the other day, in lap 10 or so, Alonso passes Klien on the outside in the chicane, but he runs wide and goes of. He rejoins the track immediately and lets Klien pass him on the beginning of the straight. Halfway the straight, Alonso is on his tail again and passes him on the inside in T1.
Remind you of something? What was it, Belgium GP, a year ago (or 2)? Hamilton doing exactly the same (chicane, straight, T1..) and got a penalty.
I mean, they just give too many penalties. It's not as if everyone would hit each other off if they didn't give the penalties.. Every spectacular action is being penalised. No wonder F1 is considered boring by so many people.
EDIT: I have to correct myself here. Alonso let Klien past again a few laps later, he probably got a message that that wasn't allowed. It was solved in a nice way.. However, I do have the feeling that there are more penalties being given now, because of some spectacular 'on the edge' actions. I wonder if there are any statistics about this..
Last edited by Darkone55, .
Yea, let's make sure there is absolutely no action on the track, that would be horrible!
Come on.. Drivers always try to find the limits, and racing just has a lot of risks. It's part of it. Yes, Schumi's action wasn't without risk, but it ended well and it was spectacular to see. This is what the public wants to see, real fights on the track. They don't always have to be according to the book. In fact, the riskier the cooler to watch.
Come on.. Drivers always try to find the limits, and racing just has a lot of risks. It's part of it. Yes, Schumi's action wasn't without risk, but it ended well and it was spectacular to see. This is what the public wants to see, real fights on the track. They don't always have to be according to the book. In fact, the riskier the cooler to watch.
Luckily you didn't. We don't need another 13 in a dozen band...
The musical scales and everything are tools. By, the keys sounded different 100 years ago, and different 200 years ago and so on. They have evolved. There isn't one inventor. But the pitch of the A has become higher the last years, the relations between the notes have changed. In fact, one that is pretty much not used at all and will sound dissonant to most people is the natural relations of notes. That's where it started.. Invented by physics!
It's the same as people who use a computer to do their job. No, they didn't invent that, but they use it as a tool.
I do agree that most of the intellectual property is actually owned by publishers. Publishers can't control their 'property' any more because it's so simple to copy the music. They have become useless, because they are not needed any more in order to distribute the music. So that part of the industry is now slowly dying and they all the actions they take are just a symptom of them dying.
In most countries it takes 70 years after the death of the author before their invention/product/music becomes public domain. Disney want to stretch this because Micky Mouse is soon becoming PD and of course they want exclusive rights because they want to make money. It's commercial business, simple as that. But mister Disney himself is long way dead, so why should Micky Mouse still make money?
I think things should become PD as soon as the author dies, after all, the author won't make any more money..
But musicians should be able to get money by making their music, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make the music they make!
@ Intrepid, new systems are being invented every day.. Especially in the 70's people started to think of new systems. None of these are protected. Think of people like Ligeti, Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis. Why are they not protected? Because they are tools.
It's the same as people who use a computer to do their job. No, they didn't invent that, but they use it as a tool.
I do agree that most of the intellectual property is actually owned by publishers. Publishers can't control their 'property' any more because it's so simple to copy the music. They have become useless, because they are not needed any more in order to distribute the music. So that part of the industry is now slowly dying and they all the actions they take are just a symptom of them dying.
In most countries it takes 70 years after the death of the author before their invention/product/music becomes public domain. Disney want to stretch this because Micky Mouse is soon becoming PD and of course they want exclusive rights because they want to make money. It's commercial business, simple as that. But mister Disney himself is long way dead, so why should Micky Mouse still make money?
I think things should become PD as soon as the author dies, after all, the author won't make any more money..
But musicians should be able to get money by making their music, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make the music they make!
@ Intrepid, new systems are being invented every day.. Especially in the 70's people started to think of new systems. None of these are protected. Think of people like Ligeti, Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis. Why are they not protected? Because they are tools.
Oh, cheat0r, you're driving on slicks! :P
Nice one!
Nice one!
:P
Yea, I'm kinda inactive, very busy and stuff. Sometimes I just try some laps here and there when I stumbled on this.
Go beat it, gl!
Yea, I'm kinda inactive, very busy and stuff. Sometimes I just try some laps here and there when I stumbled on this.
Go beat it, gl!
Cool track! I tried some laps myself with the BF1. 37.26. 
Ohhh, guys.. Still..? I mean.. Still?! Man this discussion has gone round more then Vettel and Webbers wheels combined!
Wa! Very cool stuff! I'm so sorry I couldn't be there..
Next time...!Haha.. Awesome. Well.. I haven't played for a while now. I'm just sticking around because I like the team, but I hardly ever touch the wheel..
Woei! Really looking forward to it!
It involves beer and racing and it's somewhere in May. *looks mysteriously*
5th already? Pfff. We've got to celebrate! I've got an idea...!
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG