Wow, I've just found the clips of the STCC and they are just amazing. So much fun looking at them, I can't wait for the rest of the season

Finally got around to look at it and try it out a bit (to my own regret, but still fun ).

First of all my overall impressions from the driving by Biggie and Kev:

Kev drives clean lines, not too much sliding, hardly countersteering and nose pointing to where he wants to go at that point. Biggie flicks the car in a sliding position where the nose is pointing not quite in the direction he is going, but the direction he wants to go in the second part of the corner and coming out of the corner.

When I drive LFS, I try to drive like Kev, clean lines, not much countersteering because that is for me the nicest/best way to drive. I have a problem with intuitive countersteering in a computer game, because I don't get the G's working on my body as I have in real life. My solution for this shortcoming in LFS is to drive as cleanly as possible. Rear wheel drive cars in LFS are, for me, terrible to drive because I seem to be unable to correct the car in the right way as I seem to be able to do naturally in e.g. a go-kart. I always seem to oversteer and overthrottle and overbrake in these situations if I even notice I'm already going sideways.

I looked at the driving by Biggie and I 'get' his driving and why he drives like that. After I stopped drooling at his amazing car control I just watched it again (and again) for the sheer beauty of it.
And of course I'm completely unable to even come close to that driving style. Yes, his nose does not seem to be pointing in the right direction and Kev's nose does. The small flick of the steering wheel to start the controlled slide for me results in all kinds of things except a controlled slide

I did however check the replays not only from cockpit view, but also from the follow cam view. Looking at both drives from that perspective the way Biggie drives looks a lot cleaner and better pointed in the travelling direction then Kev's drive. I thought that a bit strange since the in car view seems to suggest it a bit different imo.

Of course I tried a bit myself and was hopeless with the setup given by Biggie. I'm understeering going into a corner and oversteering when getting on the throttle with the setup provided by Biggie (LX4 Solong3).
Then there is the full throttle Biggie is able to get to really quickly sometimes. When I try to do the same thing and I have to steer even a little bit, I get into a spin immediately and am usually unable to catch it, even with full couterlock. Apparently the slides are already too far gone for me to be able to catch, before I notice them. This is my own personal problem of course, but one that keeps me from enjoying most of the RWD cars.

It seems I need to start getting my mechanics hat on and really work on a setup I feel comfortable with and that complements my own slow driving style (did I already mention my fastest non crashing lap was in the 1:57 )
It's probably going to be the only way I'm ever going to enjoy the RWD cars, by tuning out every bit of oversteer I can find

Ah well, this is just the way I see it and maybe I should stick to this same track/car just to start getting a feel for a RWD car. I mean, if I master 1 I should be OK to go in others too right

Quote from Wiki :

Online Racing Etiquette

• Don't spam: There is no need to repeat a message over and over. Other racers will be annoyed by you. It's rude and there is simply no use in doing that. Even if you are angry or you have the right to be angry, never spam!
  
• If you get BLUE FLAG displayed on the screen, it means a player who is one or more laps ahead of you is attempting to pass. You must let this player past you as soon as possible by driving your car out of the racing line and slowing down a bit on a clear straight.

I believed there were other rules for the blue flag? You should NOT leave the racing line I believe and be as predictable as possible in your driving. Isn't it the responsibility of the faster car to pass you safely?

I only need to know with dot color who is in front and who is behind. I do not care about who is first. It could be abused to target leaders in the race and crash them too easily.

I wouldn't even mind if the minimap would completely disappear and you would be relying on mirrors/flags/whatever to know where you are.
If I can see the car driving in front of me I'm ok and will try to pass that car. There's not a lot more information needed than that.

On the other hand I do use it when leaving the pit or trying to get back on track after a crash. So maybe an autoactivation of the minimap when leaving the tarmac or being in the pits could be used.

Just my 0.02.

I think I read about GTR and followed a link to blackhole motorsports.

There was a top 10 racing games where LFS was most promising (2004?). Downloaded the demo and loved it. Have been playing ever since, took me a month or 2 to get licensed.

Haven't touched other games at all since then

This is after playing tribes for 6 years exclusivly, so I'm a one game man I guess

I'll drive whatever is raced with preferably over 4 people on a server.

I do however keep having problems with RWD cars, because I oversteer like hell. I don't believe I've ever been able to control a RWD car for 5 laps without looking back on the track at least once

I do like the MRT and FOX though and can control these reasonably even if I'm not really fast. The FOX just needs a completely different driving style then e.g. XFG which I like.

I still need to just try out more on the RWD cars. Did have a go at both LX6 and LX4 and kinda liked the LX4, but it was a really understeering setup so taking corners was a biatch.

I just do not have a lot of time to play and then sticking with a more comfortable car (usually FWD or 4WD) because it suits my driving style better, makes it more fun for me to race them. I'm at least a bit competetive and will be less of a trouble to other people on the server because I've better car control.

That said, I'll still race in any car that is being used when I'm online having fun whatever I drive anyway

He knocked you into the grass, no question.

He should have blocked you at the moment he saw you go to the right to try and pass him. (which he would have been allowed to do only once)

When he didn't do that he forfeit his right to go that much to the right in my opinion and should have left you enough room.

Also I consider this a straight and as such I do not believe there really is a racing line that he was defending. He just moved to a space on track he lost all rights to.

I do not think you are to blame at all.

I never hotlapped until I got into a competition with a collegue with XFG on BL1 for the quickest time.

At the moment I'm 0.02 secs in front

On the other hand I have LFS for 2 years and he for 2 months.... it sucks to be me

I gave birth to an Aston National fanboy in a drinking contest.

and I called him BOB

Quote from Hankstar :

A while back I was in a race at BL where a guy started honking at me as soon as I passed him - this was on lap 1! He kept honking and sending "faster driver - move" but we were fighting for position and I was quicker in some sections than he was and racing cleanly. After the race (and after he'd tried a lunatic move on me on the last turn and ended up finding the wall) he flamed me for blocking him and cheating. I explained I didn't have to move unless he was lapping me and he thought I was making it up. The rest of the field and I had to explain to the ignoramus that it's in the FIA rules - then we had to explain what the FIA is

Surprisingly familiar although it was spamming of a blue flag message when it happened to me.

A lot of people are quicker than me, but if they are in the same lap no honking or spamming will help, they'll have to pass me the old fashioned way, because they can pass instead of hotlap

I'll make a mistake eventually anyway and not be bothered by that. There is always a next race that I can take myself out off

Quote from haisupeppu :

I was pushed in the first corner at one point.

Adult racers however do not see that as an excuse to start wrecking. Shit happens and another race will start in 10 minutes. Live with it and turn the other (smelly) cheek

for Top Gear quotes go to:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Top_Gear

ROFL: "The pedal under my right foot isn't so much a throttle, as it is a hyper-space button." (about the Bugatti Veyron)

AdamW and bal00, thanks for the advice both of you
I think looking at my driving style I never brake/lift and start turning at the exact same moment.

I always brake a bit and then gently start steering. Maybe I should put up an SPR for review some day, but since I never play offline that might be a problem

I'll see what I can do with this advice and start crashing a few times more

Been hitting the 1:34.xx also since last thursday and seem to be able to make them more consistent (mostly 1 time/5 laps) and stay in 1:35.xx for most of the race. I've been mostly getting more consistent then really faster. I know I have some room left to improve though, so I'll get better some day (using autoclutch ).

Looking at some laptimes when spectating I'm amazed how 'wrong' aliens sometimes seem to drive and still go very fast, while I'm reasonably smooth most of the time and e.g. hardly have to countersteer. I see people take corners going off the throttle and braking by steering that is impossible for me. I must brake or lose the corner completely. So I think I'm still missing some aspect of how to drive the XFG 'really' fast, but I'm fine for now.

The fun for me now though is actually close racing. It's fun being reasonably quick and keeping faster drivers behind you while still keeping it fair and fun for all parties. Or what the Mercury server had saturday is the reversed starting grid which is a joy to try and get back to front.
I'm not really quick to go to the pits, so if I get in an accident in T1 I'll just start picking it up from there. I do not really care where I drive on the grid

Btw Pete, you are a nice guy to drive with. I've been on the same server a couple of times with you and it was fun.

Last week was a week where I could drive a lot. I had some good times with NASSA/400/SCCC and a lot of no-team players.

I'm more of recognizing the names than reproducing them, but I've had a blast You could actually race with a lot of people on the XFG servers the last couple of weeks and go side by side through corners if necessary... definitely good times

If I get wrecked I usually not immediately start a vote. If it happens more than once though I'll start a vote myself or vote with the rest.
But I also must have seen it happen or really trust the person initiating the vote.

I'm not experiencing a lot of wrecking to be honest. So I do not believe it is that big of a problem, but I agree that the first impression of LFS can be bad if your first outing accidentily is on a server with wreckers.

The wreckers I've sometimes seen are actually good racers and just seem to do it out of boredom. They are fully aware of what they are doing and reasoning with them is just not an option really.

I think the initiative for the the Clean Server Club is excellent and in my opinion is good enough. Together with the CRC (of which I still need to become accepted as a member (help me out there please! ) this could mean that the driving can be as fair as possible.

The percentage of laptime idea is not good imo, because people will need to improve and I've also been in fights for position where laptimes drop enormously because of the close racing, passing, repassing and general brakepoints missing for all parties involved. It's fun and clean, but just slowing you down big time.

All in all though for me it is just a game to have fun. A pile up in T1 never prompts me to restart, I'll just start driving from the back and see if I can catch up and maybe pass a few people. That is more fun then driving alone in front anyway. Besides I like watching other people fight for places and don't mind driving a race behind such a fight and learn.

Back on topic:
Things that should be active on all servers:

- kick when driving backwards should be enabled
- spectate when idling on track for more than e.g. 15 secs should be enabled. (idling is anything e.g. < 30 km/h)

Last edited by AeoIus, Fri 19 May 2006, 10:59.

LFS for me had an instant click that made it work for me. Rfactor did not.
Same thing for me with F1C vs GP series. F1C 'clicked' and GP series did not.

I cannot really explain why, just that one feels more natural to me it it's response.

My first time TOCA was an experience of close racing that was unforgettable. The grinding door to door to get around some corners just amazed me and I really liked the way the game handled. Then I just started to get into TOCA2 and really liked that as well, when I heard about LFS. I tried the demo and never looked at TOCA2 again. LFS was much more lifelike to me and RFactor did not do the same.

I never did really give it a shot though, so I still might like it if I got used to it. But I'm not willing to get used to it. I just do not have enough time to play, so LFS is enough and I REALLY like it since patch U, so this is probably where I'll spend my next couple of years racing

GPL was just too damn hard when trying it first with a joystick, then got a non FFB steering wheel and still could not drive. Then got a FFB steering wheel and I was able to really carefully get around the track. It was still hard, but fun. It did not have the instant click but I kept trying because I then had the time to do that and was sure it was a great game.

So I cannot offer any real comments on RFactor other then: no instant 'click' when first playing the game and not willing to invest the time to make it work for me.

What I always do on an unfamiliar track/car combo is join a server and spectate for a few laps. Find the leader (because he's probably driving the best lines) and watch how he drives until you get a clue on brakepoints and cornerspeeds for that car on that layout.

Once you think you have the overview, get in the car and get going and start having fun. Just make sure others realize you are quite new and make sure you got a bind for "Sorry"

It seems to work for me although a few drivers will probably not think I have this right until I practice that specific combo first off line.
I cannot be bothered about that really and just try to stay out of trouble and keep CTRL+S (going to pits) always close by

Why don't you just create a custom view still ín cockpit, but where you can't see the speedo (if this is possible). I would expect that putting the view position more forward would remove it from your sight.

I'm always looking at the speedo too btw, doing the exact same thing. I tried to do it differently, but keep braking too much before corners if I don't watch the speedo. This is because I usually start braking quite early and modulate it to get to the speed I want to start taking the corner with and still have time to hit the apex (which I often miss to be honest )

I better start making some of these adjustments myself too and get racing without the speedo :P

Quote from operator0 :

To me, LFS is one of the greatest online games of all time. I'm serious here. I've played a bunch of online games to include playing the original Doom over com port...yes, I am that old..all the way to BF2. To me the only game that comes close to LFS' online experience is the original Tribes.

ROFL, so true!! (especially the Tribes part although I was a big fan of Tribes 2 too and still run a server for it (=DB= Dutchbat Homeworld))

I never practice offline and have never done so. It's an online simulator so that's what I want to use. And although I am definitely not a great driver I'm reasonably quick to learn a decent control of a car on a circuit.

However, when I have a new track with a new car I always observe a couple of laps of preferably one of the leaders to see how they drive, what the circuit is like, where they brake and what speeds they take corners with.

When I think I have a clue I'll jump in a car and have a go, trying to stay away from anyone driving and keeping the CTRL+S close in my mind.

I'll still struggle sometimes and have caused an occasional crash, even last weekend on a circuit I know well, just not with that car (sorry Appie!!) because I was trying to get out of the way.

When a new race starts I'll just start driving with everybody else and will improve enough to not be terrible in 2-3 races.

I've had a lot of fun races just driving midfield with somebody driving about the same times as me, but well below WR's or the leaders pace. I have fun that way and do not have the skills or desire to win a lot or become an alien.

Yes I could train to improve off line first, but the little time I have to play LFS I want to play versus other people, because that for me is where the fun is in a game. The fact that I can say "Sorry, it is my fault" to someone is a lot more fun then grumbling about AI getting in my way. Maybe that is not quite what some of you want, but I do not care if I get hit once in a while, because another race will be 5 minutes away and nothing is lost really. That might be just a mentality difference which makes LFS so much more alive when online

I'm busy accellerating from the crash in the turn before the straight, checking supension damage and tyre temps and contemplating whether I really need to pit this time or if I can survive another crash in the turn after the straight.

That and take a quick sip from a glass of water.

Since I'm not being hindered by any negative pre posts feelings about Dethred, I have to say I found his first reponse very funny

Then again I probably have a weird sense of humor

I've been playing since S1 and thought S1 and S2 both were great, but this new update just made me see how much better it still could be.

Being content or happy with the way something works and defending that is quite ok because it is (at least for me) a bit hard to imagine beforehand what a difference a physics update can make. Then again I don't have to be the creative genius to think about how it can all be better and just play and enjoy the game as it is at that point.

LFS is however the only racesim and in fact only game I've been playing the last year. Every time it's fun and enjoyable so I'm happy I spend the 36€ on it. I got my money's worth out of it big time and intend to hang on till S3 and more. I like the fact it is still developing, because that gives me a game that will change again in the future and will change for the better. If it was finished and development would stop, it would just not be as much fun

I just like to drive around and am not really bothered by racing incidents that happen to me. I've been hit a lot of times and unfortunately I've hit others quite a lot of times. The last is usually just poor control of my own vehicle, because I just suck at LFS (slowly improving though :P)
Whatever happens I'll usually say "Sorry, my fault" and don't really care if it really is my fault or not. When I hit someone in any way I probably could have avoided it in any way and could have made that effort.

As for me I like to leave room in corners whenever I expect there might be even a slight overlap. If somebody is behind me and I no longer see him/her directly in my rearview mirror I start driving wider lines, because I expect them to be a little beside me. This is poor position defending, but invites close door to door racing which is fun. I don't care what position I'm driving in at all, just as long as there is someone close to have a bit of a 'race' with I'm happy and smiling through every mistake I make

Congratulations Scawen, this should be easy to remember since my sister got a daughter on the same day :P