The online racing simulator
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AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from Ivo Georgiev :What if AI uses apexes instead of lines. That way it will be more flexible.
It will calculate the line real-time using the apex. It will get braver and braver, and having later braking points. It can also learn where to place the apex to get the ideal line. It can also learn better throttle control, better/later braking.

Now, it's only restricted to one line, and that's it. The real-life drivers change their line as they get better.

They can also have modes, like aggressive, tire saving, etc.

The AI was a learning AI that constantly modified its lines before the last AI update, but that approach was apparently scrapped due to being even slower than trying to follow a hardcoded line.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Works fine for me here. He probably just blocked all Scottish IPs

So Tristan, apparently in the tyre market you get what you pay for. Do you plan on reverting back to Avons permanently now, or is the cost simply too prohibitive?
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
It is unfortunately not an easy task to write AI routines that make them drive as fast as a human while still being restricted to the same physics. Games like rFactor/GTR can make fast AI opponents because they actually don't use the same physics engine or restrictions, so the AI is basically cheating.

Raw speed isn't everything either. It is equally if not more difficult to make the AI behave human-like, as in planning passing manoeuvres, predicting opponent behaviour and reacting to suddenly changing situations, etc. Without such behaviour it is impossible to learn proper racecraft from the AI alone, and the worst drivers can be those that are fast but don't know how to properly pass or behave around other racers.

Now I'm fairly sure the LFS AI could be improved in many aspects, but overall actually doing that would be kinda missing the point. The AI is at best a tool to help newbies get up to speed on basic racing techniques before venturing into the online world, and it's already doing that quite well for people who choose to go this path. Once you can beat the AI on pro setting on a a racetrack, you're definitely ready to go online speed-wise. Investing any more time into improving the AI for an online racing simulator if you have only one person who does the programming would be a complete waste of time.

That said from what I saw in your post you were actually using the AI on BF1/KY1? This is probably the worst combination you could choose, to be honest. For one the BF1 is a car of extremes, and as such it is even more difficult to make it fast. But the far bigger point is that the oval racing in LFS is a bad joke at the moment. For proper oval racing the sim needs to focus on a bunch of rather specific physics and setup aspects, which it currently simply doesn't. The AI would also need to be tailored specifically for oval racing techniques that have nothing to do with normal racing. I really hope you didn't buy S2 for the oval...
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
I'm pretty sure LFS doesn't have any support for specific devices built in, it is just using DirectX to read the values from whatever axes and buttons the device has.

However, LFS does include some default settings for the G25 and now probably also for the G27, making those controllers work out of the box rather than having to set up everything correctly. I think it just wasn't set up right previously, though it's hard to find this out via remote troubleshooting.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
But you do see the blue bar in the lower right corner rising when pressing the clutch? And the red and green bars for brake and throttle, respectively?

On the shifter tab (right of "Axes / FF"), all gears are correctly assigned? And you're also testing this on a car that has an H-gate shifter (any of the normal road cars)?
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
You probably have the clutch inverted. When you press the clutch pedal, the blue bar should rise, not shrink.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Options > Controls
Select the button "Axes / FF" in the middle
Unlock the axes (button on the right)

Rotate your wheel full left to full right
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from Hahmo : was too lazy to do that research

Wow, you're off for a great start.

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Display#Damage_display
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Over 9000!?
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from PMD9409 :Commentary is good, I'm not experiencing the one commentator louder than the others.

It seems to work well for the most part now, but one clearly has a desk mounted mic noticeable how sometimes he goes very quiet and then back to normal again, but every time something exciting happens he seems to lean in and half-scream into the mic
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Still going absolutely flawless here
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
One of the commentators really needs to turn his mic down (I think it is the one who was late at the start?). He's about twice as loud as the others
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from Kid222 :Not even buffering here..

E: Aktuelle keine Livestream..

E2: Now it's playing some re-live stuff.

You have to use an external player. Open this url: http://91.121.163.6/PLS/mbc02/Stream2.ASX in VLC or something.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Works very well! Quality good enough to read chat
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Wow, yeah. Have you bothered to read the changelist of Z25 at all? It has been removed intentionally.

:doh:
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Doesn't seem to work yet?

E: Nevermind, it works with an external player.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from translate.google.com :Rear stabilizer bars harden, soften the front. It is the first step to getting what you want without touching anything else in the setup. The following would be put back in negative convergence, but will become more difficult to control your ass, and then begin to play the distribution of braking, and finally if you want to continue refining, adjusting the rebound and compression damping. Extension behind hard / soft front compression makes rise a little ass in the better braking and cornering. Compression hard behind, hard extension before (in front) does not lift the nose to accelerate and not understeer at corner exit.

The Google translation seems to work well enough, if a little vulgar
(Personally, I prefer to keep my ass in control)
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Warning, wall of text inbound!


Quote from khush :As previously mentioned, I don't think this steering wheel (or drivers) can handle multiple FF effects simultaneously. Riding kerbs with some steering lock and you don't feel the kerbs make the wheel rumble. This happens fine when the wheel is straight ahead.

Ehm, technically LFS doesn't use any effects, or only one, depending on what you call an effect. FF wheels usually have some built in effects, like "oscillate at 10Hz" or so, prominently used at rumble strips in other games, but in LFS the only command sent to the wheel is "rotate to [direction] with X torque." Any FF generated is a direct result of the virtual front wheels exerting this force on the virtual steering rack. If the physical interaction in the game world doesn't result in a certain force, you won't get it in your FF wheel either.
Quote :
Nor have I managed to create the understeer/weight feel from the wheel. The force applied seems to be constant all the way around a corner which makes the game massively unsatisfying.

Again, as said above, if it doesn't happen in the simulation, you won't get the FF. Lots of (wannabe) sims apply tons of canned/fabricated effects, like making the steering go extremely light on understeer. If this happens it is often a sign of either a bad physics model or of force feedback that has nothing to do with the forces actually generated ingame.

That said, LFS is going to get overhauled tyre physics with the next major release, and just from how LFS' FF works in principle I can safely say that this will affect the force feedback, too.
Quote :
This is either a drivers issue or a technical issue with the steering wheel (design quirk?) the old Sidewinder FF handled LFS FFB x100 better.

It might as well be. I also had a MS Sidewinder FF wheel before acquiring a G25, and I too recall some "effects" working better with it, though I'm not 100% how much of that was just the novelty of having FF to begin with.

Anyway, the Logitech driver is known to dampen the effects if using a FF strength below 100% in the profiler. The torques LFS sends also seem to be filtered for certain frequencies (according to what I read on the forum), but most important we must not forget that the wheels are hardware and contain all the quirks that physical devices come with, such as motor response time, etc. It could simply be that the FF motors are not able to create a rumbling effect when they already pull in one direction, or at least not without exaggerating the input to overcome hardware shortcomings. Just think about it, when driving straight ahead you say you can feel the rumble fine, and that is because when doing that there is no other torque applied by the motors, allowing the small rumble forces to come through fully. It's like the motors have no problems going from -15 to +15 torque (arbitrary numbers) for a rumble when driving straight ahead, but applying the same amount of rumble at +335 to +365 just won't work as well due to how the motors respond. Same goes for short FF spikes that are over so fast that the motors can't even dream to react.

A different problem occurs if you put the ingame FF strength too high, resulting in FF clipping. Basically LFS then tells the wheel to rumble at +550 to +600, but the wheel may only be capable to produce +500 to begin with, so you don't feel anything at all. With the G25 you also have to consider that Logitech deliberately made the motors weaker than they could be (by not giving them enough power) for liability reasons. The wheel could rotate 3x as fast as it does, but by that point it does become quite dangerous to your fingers. IIRC someone already managed to break his thumb even with an unmodded wheel. Now that I said it, maybe the motor response time is also negatively affected by this. The single "high powered" motor of the Sidewinder might just react faster than two "low powered" (but in sum stronger) motors of the G25.

Looking at it that way, it might even be better for LFS to actually use the built-in effects, because then the drivers can actually compensate for the hardware quirks. The hard part would however be to apply the effects in such a way that they still only produce the forces that actually happen ingame, and that might work differently from wheel to wheel.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Though it's not easy to say how to change the ARB. With the fixed tyre physics the (hopefully) clear answer would be to make the rear end stiffer, but with the current physics he's likely using a locked diff set where having a higher front ARB aids oversteer.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Keeping the handling characteristics the same is impossible, other than simply changing the rears to R3, too.

Just think about it. Anything you'll do to the setup to re-balance the over-/understeer ratio *will* affect the car's handling in one way or another, since there is no setup option that affects the tyre coefficient of grip alone.

That said, the simplest changes are probably raising the tyre pressure and decreasing the negative camber of the rears.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
I just don't see the practical reason for it? What advantage did the old system have over the new one?

With the new one, if you have for example a one pit strategy and run with half the fuel needed for the race length both in the fuel tank and set up as amount to refuel, then you're completely safe to pit in a few laps earlier should the need arise (as long as the fuel tank can hold the combined amount). If you need to pit again then it's also quite easy to just set the refuel amount to 0%.

If you need to pit in earlier with the old system then you frantically have to recalculate the new, higher amount needed or you won't have enough fuel to complete the race.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Maybe he means he wants the old refuel system back? Where instead of specifying how much fuel gets added, you instead set up to what percentage your fuel tank will be filled up to.

Honestly, the old system was scrapped, and for a good reason, so: -1
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
This is exactly what "separate" axis does. If your wheel only supports combined axis, then you're out of luck.
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from khush :AndriodNX [...] LSF

lol
AndroidXP
S3 licensed
Quote from AndRand :I am really curious about description from experienced LFSer - I know FD301 and 401 are really light and servomotors driven so its quick. How about lags or unnatural feel of acceleration.

No experience with FD specifically, but in general I believe those motion simulators are mostly bullshit and a complete waste of time and money. I guess I can see how multi-million $ simulators that are fully enclosed and move the whole apparatus may work somewhat convincingly, but these "cheap" ones do nothing but throw you around generating forces completely unrelated to what happens on the screen.

Just think about it, the main force used is gravity, since that is the only force you can use to exert a constant pull. To make use of gravity, you need to be tilted. The first obstacle is of course, that the maximum force that can be simulated would be 1G, but even that would be unrealistic, since the downward force (gravity) that you normally experience additionally to the longitudinal and lateral forces is "used up" by that point. Also it would require a tilt of 90° which is quite a bit more than realistically achievable, so the actual acceleration that can be simulated is even lower.

However, the much more serious problem are the forces generated by the tilting process itself. If you go from acceleration (tilted back) to sudden deceleration (tilted forward), the movement you experience in the transition can be the complete opposite of what you want. Obviously this can be minimized by designing the motion simulator to have it's main rotational axis "in" your head, so by tilting forward actually your body moves backwards below you while your head remains mostly stationary, but even then you still suffer from the rotational forces itself.


E: Basically what Niels said, that will teach me to leave the reply window open for so long
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG