Quote from snewham :

you shouldn't be able to get any kind of S2 content if you haven't payed for it. That includes spectating.

Well then no spectating... Just allow those with S1 license to drive on S2 server with FE Green and MRT5 set up...
am I talking to a wall or what?

Quote from tristancliffe :

I paid for S2, and quite simply I don't want people being able to race in my servers if they have paid less than me.

There are plenty of screenshots, movies and members that show that S2 is a step forward over S1. And demo users should be happy to have the worlds finest racing game for free (although only parts of it).

well again... if you race at Aston with any car, the people would not be able to join (maybe spectate, if allowed), but tell me, where the hell is the difference if you set up a race on FE Green with the MRT5, why the person who paid for the S1 content shoud not be able to join? He has the same right as you, to be there!

Or are you thinking: I paid 12 pounds more so why should I race this lowly "not even driver" who has not? He's some kind of rubbish that I don't want to come into contact with?

Last edited by Chaos, Thu 11 Aug 2005, 19:09.

Quote from Nitemare :

with this i agree... just enable people with s1 to join s2 servers, BUT only those with s1 content specified... and if server admin changes server specs to allow s2 content, s1 users will be kicked

well that's excatly where my idea originated... then it continued to: why kick them, let them spectate...

Quote from snewham :

TBH, if there was demand for more S1 servers, then S1 teams or players would pay to get servers put up on S1 themselves. The last time I looked there was a very little amount on there which shows that there obviously isn't a high demand for them.

And obviously no they don't want to drive S1 classes anymore due to the new S2 classes/cars. People would much rather drive them.

I run 3 different servers and I definetlely wont be supporting, let alone enabling any kind of option like this.

Who said anything about demand for S1 servers? I've seen S2 servers with GTi/GT on FernBay just yesterday and there were 9 drivers there, what I am suggesting, allow S1 only licensed drivers join the race on such a server.

well that's your opinion, but I would like to see someone elses too... or am I the only one wanting to have all kinds of car classes on servers?

Quote from snewham :

why are you still arguing?

it is a bad idea because it is impracticle, time consuming and not needed.

because i don't think its a bad idea, not much time consuming and it would be useful for everyone who paid for LFS...

EDIT> moderators, please change the global topic to S1/S2 only (delete "demo/") Thanks..

Last edited by Chaos, Thu 11 Aug 2005, 13:29.

Quote from snewham :

exactly, and how many servers are there in S2 that even have S1 cars enabled?

and minus from that the servers who's admins don't want S1/demo users on their server

and you're left with oh ... umm.. 1 or 2 servers. And the devs are going to spend time to implement this why??

exactly, this way we would have more "S1" severs... There was a cry for a diverse "serverfield" before... Or don't S2 licensed users want to drive the TBO class, Lx4, etc. anymore?
and please leave the demo out... now we are talking about merging S1 + S2 only...

Quote from Nitemare :

1] mainly the security issues, as was already pointed out... if you can see decrypted cars and tracks in game, you are just few variables away from getting complete acces to them

2] need for altering communication protocol of lfs, to allow "just spectating" connections

3] more bandwidth usage for master server, and s2 servers

4] i can imagine, that if there was an option in server setup for specifiing amount non-s2 users on server, most admins will put it to zero anyway...

1, if you have half the code decrypted, then there is no prob decryptyng the other half. Imo not a problem to check (server side) license = used car (as are cars checked for tweaks)

2, imo not needed, just a switch using the race full block: S2 track, S1 connection -> race full, you can't join

3, questionable, but I don't think it would be that much...

4, why would they? even now there can only be 20 cars in the race, but many servers have 23 conns allowed...

Quote from snewham :

The idea isn't viable. The system is fine the way it is at the moment. Demo is to get a taste of it and S1 is for a little bit more, s2 is for the whole package.

It would be so much more work for the devs and it would only benefit the people who are so tight they can't pay out 12 pounds for an S2 licence.

Devs have more important things to do than that.

well I don't think it is a big problem from programmer's point of view...
And you are wrong that only those with S1 license would benefit from it...
S2 license holders almost don't go to S1 servers (unless to meet a friend), so there would be more servers with TBO, LX4, FR in S2 (not many of these in S2 nowadays).
AND
From the customers point of view: Well what the hell 12 pounds are fine, I'll pay that, but 24? Naah too much... So with my suggested system, this guy would enjoy S1 (with a lot more drivers than there are now in S1), but from time to time he would see a FZ50 passing him, then the RA, etc. Give him a month a he pays the other 12 pounds..

Quote from Nitemare :

anyway,, i think the complications this feature would bring will outweight the gain from it...

well name some of these complications...

Quote from Nitemare :

problem is, that s1 users who come just to watch, block space for s2 users who want to play...

IMO it's not a big problem limiting the number of S1 spectators on a server with S2 track to 2 per server maybe...

Quote from snewham :

It would be great for demo users but then it wouldn't really be a demo would it? the idea of a demo is to give people a tempory view and an idea of what the full version is like so that they buy it, not to give them full access to view and race in s2 servers. Then all you are doing is paying for better cars and not access to a better quality and better community of racers.

The idea is completely flawed imho

?? Obviosly you didn't read the whole post/thread... I said and edited the first post and said, let demo out of this... only merge S1 and S2...
maybe let demo users watch .mpr from S2, but that's it..

EDIT> oops you reacted JJ72'sto post... but still, you don't see that the demo user will not use the whole S2... He could only watch... He could still only drive on Blackwood with F/R/T... so the only thing they would get, is to SEE S2 in its full glory...

Last edited by Chaos, Thu 11 Aug 2005, 12:49.

Quote from (SaM) :

Seriously, I'd hate to see people connecting to my 512k server (wich can only handle 8 people lagfree) and they just watch. I hate being watched. Especially when it sucks my bandwidth and less people can join. illepall

well then where is the problem? limit your server to 8 conns only... Even now anyone with S2 license can drop by your server and watch...

IRL the rider who gets a drivethough penalty and doesnt complete it (he has 3 laps to do it, if he doesn't -> black flag, disqualfication) because there are not enough laps, gets a time penalty. This time is added to his overall time and final standing is changed, accordingly... Usually he gets 30sec to his time...

Quote from XCNuse :

.. i think that would be a mess seeing every sever on the list; not only would it take forever to get the whole server list (anyone remember the early months of S1, when we had to wait minutes to get hte list of servers.. and by then they changed however much ... not good times)

the ability to have options, and filters such as choice between Demo/S1/S2.. is good, cause then you know what the server is running, rather than thinking your joining an F/R race, only to find out someone bumped you and then complained and banned you isntantly.... not to wise imo

server list is fine the way it is; now all it needs is the ability to filter tracks

i think you missed the point... Allow users with S1 license to join S2 servers, but only if the track is compatible with S1 allow them to join and race with S1 car only (although there may be some S2 racers on the server using a S2 car). Otherwise spectate only...

Quote from Phlos :

How you think the game will show S2 cars (or tracks ?) if the content is not decrypted ?

well I don't know how it's done... if the S2 code is encrypted or if there is some oher kind of lock... do you?

and if you red further posts, i suggested to leave the demo out... only merge S1 and S2 this way... cause if you have unlocked S1, a part of the code is unlocked/decrypted...

Last edited by Chaos, Thu 11 Aug 2005, 09:16.

Quote from Phlos :

LFS devs will not do this for security reasons. It will be a lot more easy to crack LFS if whole content is already decrypted illepall

he? why shoud it be decryped? illepall

Ok, let the demo users out, but with the S1 license only, there are not many servers and why don't let them see S2? Or join a S1 track and see S2 cars flying by? There are some S2 servers with S1 track (BW,FE,SC..) and with GTi/GT, why shoud the person with S1 license not be able to join?

And it would be a good marketing move, cause people say £24 is too much. Buy S1 license for £12, see what it is like in S2 and very likely he will buy S2 too...

What about this: Should someone download the full sized S2 (since all track/car data is there), allow him to connect to every server. Then when the person is connected to that server, then according to his license status allow/disallow them to connect to the race.

This way everybody with S1 license could watch the racing in S2 full, see .mpr replays from leagues etc.

Allow the users according to the "level of unlocking" enter the tracks/cars.

Leave the demo as it is now. "Merge" S1 and S2 only...

Example> A user has the S1 license. He connects to a server with SouthCity Classic, where the people race the FZ50, but with S1 license LX6 is available, so he can join. He could race against the FZ50, but would not be allowed to drive it, not until he buys his S2 license.
Should this user connect to a server with Aston, then he could only spectate.

I think this way the community would only benefit from it, yesterday I saw some S2 servers running Fernbay tracks with GTi/GT... But for users with S1 license only its not possible to join that server. Although they could.

Your ideas?

Last edited by Chaos, Mon 15 Aug 2005, 06:47.

thanks guys!