I love when this happens.
People are unable to make their point using rational points, so they must choose to attack the individual. It's an absolute classic approach as when it occurs I know that they've just conceded then and there that they're wrong.
Every single one of your arguments have been littered with either condescending comments or hyperbolic insults in some fashion.
Any rational argument that you may or may not have has been destroyed with your decision to litter your responses with pretentious phrases like "No one with a brain" or "You're too how to say... simple of mind" or downright call me a child.
Then you provide the pièce de résistance of deciding to go on a mock tirade
It's laughable at how you decide to undermine any points you may have by choosing to litter them with such rancid condescension.
People are unable to make their point using rational points, so they must choose to attack the individual. It's an absolute classic approach as when it occurs I know that they've just conceded then and there that they're wrong.
Every single one of your arguments have been littered with either condescending comments or hyperbolic insults in some fashion.
Any rational argument that you may or may not have has been destroyed with your decision to litter your responses with pretentious phrases like "No one with a brain" or "You're too how to say... simple of mind" or downright call me a child.
Then you provide the pièce de résistance of deciding to go on a mock tirade
It's laughable at how you decide to undermine any points you may have by choosing to litter them with such rancid condescension.
It's not that I'm missing the point, it's that there is no point. I couldn't care less about what some players in a VR forum said about VR. It's like going to a Republican National Convention and asking their opinions on abortion.
Simulation fans is already easily the smallest niche out of any market. White people who play untranslated Japanese dating games is a larger market pool than simulations.
So you're creating a niche product for an already small niche. To go out and say "yeah, we're gonna make it pretty cheap" was a completely disingenuous statement. Of course now Oculus has realized this, but they've already failed. They already created impossible expectations that they cannot meet. As a consumer, I was interested when they said they were aiming for $300 as a price point (and this was pre-Facebook money). But now they have Facebook money and they're unable to hit that price point? How is that even possible.
The concept that Oculus and Microsoft have that everyone will have a VR headset or a HMD is absolutely ridiculous, which is why they're both going to end up as expensive flops.
So going from "We're targeting the $300 price point right now" to "I can’t tell you that it’s going to be $350" isn't changing anything?
Wow. I wish I could be as blind as you, because then I wouldn't even need a VR headset because I'd be legally 100% blind.
Wow. I wish I could be as blind as you, because then I wouldn't even need a VR headset because I'd be legally 100% blind.
The majority of games that I play don't support VR, therefore a 144hz display would enhance my gaming experience substantially more than a VR headset.
The target market for VR is small. It's been hyped a lot to make it seem like everyone and their dog will buy a VR headset, but they won't. The demand for such a device has been so overhyped, that even Oculus bought into that when remarking that they would be able to charge so little for it. It's only now that the reality of the situation has sunk in that they've had to change what they said.
So you mean if I went and posted in the Xbox subreddit that PS4 was better, I wouldn't get flamed? That's an absolutely insane example. You step into a place where everyone has become infatuated about something and say something about something they dislike, of course that's the response. If you tell someone that his wife is a **** idiot, you're likely to get punched in the face as well. That's the most framed argument I've ever seen.
The target market for VR is small. It's been hyped a lot to make it seem like everyone and their dog will buy a VR headset, but they won't. The demand for such a device has been so overhyped, that even Oculus bought into that when remarking that they would be able to charge so little for it. It's only now that the reality of the situation has sunk in that they've had to change what they said.
So you mean if I went and posted in the Xbox subreddit that PS4 was better, I wouldn't get flamed? That's an absolutely insane example. You step into a place where everyone has become infatuated about something and say something about something they dislike, of course that's the response. If you tell someone that his wife is a **** idiot, you're likely to get punched in the face as well. That's the most framed argument I've ever seen.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-vr-wants-headset-to-be-free-eventually/1100-6411471/
They were targeting the $300 price point as their originally stated goal.
Now it's "at least $300", which means it'll be closer to $500.
For $500 USD (which is nearly $700 CAD) I could buy 2 144hz displays, which would enhance the majority of games I play far far more than VR ever could. Or even a 4k display, which would also produce a notable enhancement in graphical quality of the games I play, along with my day to day usability of an OS.
It's really simple. They missed the mark completely by making it too expensive. Below or around $300 is within the realm of making it an impulsive purchase without justifying to my wife as to why I want it. $700 is just out of reach of any consumer, as the applications for VR are nowhere near diverse enough for most consumers to actually spend that much.
They were targeting the $300 price point as their originally stated goal.
Now it's "at least $300", which means it'll be closer to $500.
For $500 USD (which is nearly $700 CAD) I could buy 2 144hz displays, which would enhance the majority of games I play far far more than VR ever could. Or even a 4k display, which would also produce a notable enhancement in graphical quality of the games I play, along with my day to day usability of an OS.
It's really simple. They missed the mark completely by making it too expensive. Below or around $300 is within the realm of making it an impulsive purchase without justifying to my wife as to why I want it. $700 is just out of reach of any consumer, as the applications for VR are nowhere near diverse enough for most consumers to actually spend that much.
It's really simple.
LFS is a 3 person team. Only 1 of which is responsible for game engine development. Scawen has worked hard to make the improvements recently to support DX9 better, along with reworking the shader system as well. It's an impossible task for him to implement a triple engine mode (as to support Linux/OS X/BSD, you'd need OpenGL as well).
Many of us do have modern GPUs that can run even new games at a level required for VR. Even my GTX970 gets nearly 500 FPS playing LFS (which is still CPU bound, not GPU bound).
LFS is a well aged project at this point. I've played or otherwise been around the LFS community for half of my life. Scawen also is pretty unique in terms of his attitude towards customers, in that most of his decisions are nearly always driven around what is best for the existing user base. The existing user base consists of a lot of users from countries where acquiring a DX12 compatible GPU is impossible.
Heck, Scawen appeared to weigh quite heavily when deciding to move to DX9, because of the increase in GPU requirements, but the level of detail added to Westhill required the ability to optimize the graphics engine.
Yes this approach may inhibit adapting to the latest and greatest graphical technologies, but it's a lot more respectable on Scawen's behalf to have built a game that will perform well on nearly any computer, versus falling prey to the problem that most modern developers fall into, where they add reflections of reflections of bloomed reflections, which makes even top end GPUs stutter down to 10 FPS, which also makes them impossible to use for VR.
There's still plenty of room for LFS to grow inside its current DX9 driven engine, both physically along with graphically. Hell, LFS is still a single threaded application! Even multi-threading will open up possibilities to improve graphics without blocking physics calculations.
LFS is a 3 person team. Only 1 of which is responsible for game engine development. Scawen has worked hard to make the improvements recently to support DX9 better, along with reworking the shader system as well. It's an impossible task for him to implement a triple engine mode (as to support Linux/OS X/BSD, you'd need OpenGL as well).
Many of us do have modern GPUs that can run even new games at a level required for VR. Even my GTX970 gets nearly 500 FPS playing LFS (which is still CPU bound, not GPU bound).
LFS is a well aged project at this point. I've played or otherwise been around the LFS community for half of my life. Scawen also is pretty unique in terms of his attitude towards customers, in that most of his decisions are nearly always driven around what is best for the existing user base. The existing user base consists of a lot of users from countries where acquiring a DX12 compatible GPU is impossible.
Heck, Scawen appeared to weigh quite heavily when deciding to move to DX9, because of the increase in GPU requirements, but the level of detail added to Westhill required the ability to optimize the graphics engine.
Yes this approach may inhibit adapting to the latest and greatest graphical technologies, but it's a lot more respectable on Scawen's behalf to have built a game that will perform well on nearly any computer, versus falling prey to the problem that most modern developers fall into, where they add reflections of reflections of bloomed reflections, which makes even top end GPUs stutter down to 10 FPS, which also makes them impossible to use for VR.
There's still plenty of room for LFS to grow inside its current DX9 driven engine, both physically along with graphically. Hell, LFS is still a single threaded application! Even multi-threading will open up possibilities to improve graphics without blocking physics calculations.
It is an artificial limitation. DX9 is perfectly supported by OpenVR (which, amusingly will support Oculus as well), which is Valve's VR library. If a third party is able to build a better VR library than Oculus can for their own hardware, doesn't that indicate that there are decisions that Oculus are making that are not user driven, and instead business driven?
DX9 is still a perfectly good graphics API, especially for the things that games like LFS use. Lots of people spread misinformation, such as how you can only do tesselation or instanced geometry with DX10/11/12, but they're wrong. DX9 is capable of that. Sure there's some edge case graphical niceties that higher levels of DX can provide, but unless you're blind, I'm sure you have noticed LFS hasn't come close to exhausting what DX9 can do, never mind DX12. Furthermore, upgrading to higher levels of DX ostracizes users who run LFS through Wine on either Linux, OS X or even BSD.
And you're right, I haven't tried any VR demos in person because Vive isn't for sale yet, so there's no VR platforms worth purchasing.
How can you say that Rift will be "Lowest Price" when there's not been a price released for the HTC Vive? You're speaking purely on conjecture.
As for VR, I'm sure LFS is amazing with nearly any VR product, given Scawen has implemented it quite well, but the Rift is substantially less advanced than what the Vive can do.
The Rift isn't much more advanced than the classic TrackIR system with a IR webcam and some head mounted IR LEDs. Just with the addition of a head mounted display. You're still fairly restricted to a pretty stationary position for motion tracking. Just because the FOV of the camera is larger, doesn't mean it does more advanced tracking, it's still a pretty unimpressive implementation that is functional, but not "revolutionary". Given that the "official" Oculus input method is a Xbox One controller at this point, and they did show off handheld controls, but those are still limited in that you have to be facing the sensor/IR emitters, which prevents full 360° freedom of motion like the Vive can do.
As for the controls, they're definitely developer hardware given Valve has been talking about how they've been shipping IR blasters that would normally fail consumer QA, but for developers some manufacturing faults are permissible to get the hardware out there. Compare some of the early Steam Controller previews to the actual fully released product and you will see that Valve does iterate on things quite rapidly, even in their games.
At this point, the Rift might as well be dead TBH. It's at least 2x the originally stated "goal" price, and it's even more expensive than buying the DK2, which provides a reasonably usable experience. Plus Oculus is a scumbag company, placing artificial software restrictions on newer versions of their SDK, which excludes a large portion of their developer community who still operate with a DX9 toolkit (like LFS now does).
Valve is a much more customer and developer friendly company, who actually attempts to do the right thing for everyone, and when they do make mistakes, they've shown time and time again that they will rectify those mistakes.
It has the ability to do tracking in a entire 3d space like a room, along with offering tracking for peripherals as well.
It's not simple "head tracking VR" like the Rift is. Sure it can operate in such a mode, but it's so much more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNfrVXIgd0
This is just a simple demo of what the Vive VR can actually do for VR.
Well, we found the Oculus board member. New account, only post is this post.
Go back to your hole.
BTW: Oculus Rift is already not the most advanced consumer VR. The HTC/Valve Vive is already vastly superior.
imgur.com
Except using iRacing as a benchmark is a terrible idea, given it still is their NR2003 engine without any real additions.
Using Assetto Corsa as a benchmark of "nice" graphics is much more useful. iRacing looks like shit.
Using Assetto Corsa as a benchmark of "nice" graphics is much more useful. iRacing looks like shit.
Yeah, how dare those useless ignorant kids want improvements. I like my games in 256 colours and anyone who thinks they should be improved is missing the point and the things that should be focused on.
Ignoring a potential player base, relying on your current player base is a way to guarantee stagnation. Your current player base will move on, so you need to attract new players or your game will die.
This is what happened to the state of LFS' multiplayer. The game was too stagnant and multiplayer numbers dwindled to the point where all that's left are a few low quality licenced servers and some demo servers.
I doubt that it'll be that expensive.
The biggest thing killed the Oculus Rift is that it's too expensive, and they abandoned their original stated goal of making it affordable.
The biggest thing killed the Oculus Rift is that it's too expensive, and they abandoned their original stated goal of making it affordable.
Well going to normal maps and such, I would see those being made up of multiple images. 1 PNG for diffuse alpha for glossiness. Then a 2nd one where you use each channel for normal/etc maps. The 2nd file could then me a lower resolution possibly without losing much detail.
Well, there's actually a pretty good reason as to why that forum requires someone to be onboarded.
Everyone that has access to post in that forum also has the ability to add their games/demos to the SteamVR application on Steam. For you to be able to release anything on Steam, you must be onboarded for tax payment reasons. Being onboarded also means that Scawen can actually create a Steam app if he desired to release something on Steam.
The $5 thing is to attempt to prevent the increasing number of scam bots who mass-add users and send them phishing links to get their account/inventory. As well, it prevents scammers from registering mass accounts to attempt other social engineering.
Again, it seems silly at first, but both have very good reasons.
It might be worth selling vouchers on Steam. iRacing has shown that you can do it through that mechanism. They could be input as CD-Keys or DLC that then can be added to an LFS.net account.
I'm not sure about the payment structure on Steam (in terms of revenue split), but it could be worthwhile, and open up another avenue for users to pay (as most countries do have Steam Wallet cards that you can purchase, which would allow those without debit/credit cards to purchase LFS).
It's an interesting idea. Many people have suggested it in the past, but it's never seemed to have gotten your attention. The sales are also interesting to get in on, as some developers have shown increased revenue during sales, but it might not be worthwhile for LFS.
Scawen, another potential option for support/bug reporting is the Github page.
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/issues
That's another (seemingly) active forum for issue reporting, and they're pretty good at responding/fixing in their other repos.
Might be a decent stop gap solution given you don't have true forum access.
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/issues
That's another (seemingly) active forum for issue reporting, and they're pretty good at responding/fixing in their other repos.
Might be a decent stop gap solution given you don't have true forum access.
I guess it's a good thing then that VR headsets aren't mandatory.
Well, just remember, people out there might still have single core CPUs without hyperthreading.
There's still a lot that DX9 could do.
The reason why there's the distinction between a community-restricted account and an unrestricted account is to try to curb the number of trade scammers. You may not know, but CS:GO and DOTA have in-game items that are very valuable to those who play those games, and where there's money to be made.. there's people trying to con those people out of their money.
The $5 is enough "proof" that you're probably not going to be a scammer (as your account will be trade banned if you do attempt to scam people). And, if you do scam/money launder (which has happened) to the extent that legal action must be taken, there's some payment information that could at least begin an investigation to press charges.
If there's any game/software/video that you find interesting that's on the Steam Marketplace, you can always purchase that and it will count as "unlocking" your account.
FWIW: I can post in the public SteamVR forum, but I cannot post in the private one. It may be worth emailing [EDIT: Gabe Newell] explaining your situation for the private one. From quickly reading, it looks like all the developers in that group have access to the Steam application for SteamVR, so they want people who are actually signed up to SteamWorks (their distribution/integration backend) for access as they have the ability to publish their demos if desired.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Reason : removed unprotected email address
Why does it only rain when I leave my umbrella at home?
You can actually do 360 tracking with both base stations.
I think the final retail solution will allow you to attach as many base stations as you want to increase the resolution of the tracking.
How can he spread irrelevant conspiracy dribble if he closes his mouth?
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