Quote from JamesF1 :

Momentum does not equal "all-empowering right to pass anyone without any resistance".

Never said it did.

Quote from JamesF1 :

Whoa... defensive driving? What is this world coming to!? Anyone would have thought they were on a race-track, or something...

If we're talking about defensive driving, then you can also argue that Hamilton was defending his ability to finish the race, by driving off the circuit to avoid a collision.

Quote from JamesF1 :

You mean to say the racing line is now the slowest way through a corner? All this time, I've been doing it wrong. :weeping:

Well, if you want to read what I "meant" to say, and what I "actually" said as two entirely different things, then that's your choice. However, what I said was that Raikkonen's line through the chicane was not a racing line.

Quote from JamesF1 :

As an additional point, how can Raikkonen deliberately force Hamilton out and take a tight line through the chicane?

Well let's see. Chicane's generally have more than one turn. The racing line on this particular chicane, for best drive out of the final section, is to touch the apex of the right hand section, miss the apex on the second (left hand) section, driving wide to the right of the track under full acceleration to enter the straight. It's there for the world to see, for a whole 43 laps, before Kimi decided to change the rules on the penultimate lap. He took a wide line into the first (right hand) section of the chicane, squeezing Hamilton off the circuit. In doing so, he lost the ability to accelerate fully out of the second (left hand) section of the chicane, thus losing traction, acceleration and speed into turn one. There, was that simple enough for you to understand?

Quote from JamesF1 :

Oxymoron, or just moron?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron

Quote :

A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.

Unless you understand what it means, don't try and be clever by using wordplay that just makes you look stupid.

Lowering yourself to name-calling makes you look silly.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

It's actually a comparison statement if you're allowed or not: i.e.

if (teamname == "Ferrari"){
divebombing = true;
}
else{
divebombing = false;
}

Aside... This whole fiasco made a mockery of one of the best races I've seen.

$divebombing = ($teamname == "Ferrari") ? true : false;

optimzation4u

anyway, i'm also tiring of this discussion. it was a pretty dull race until the last 3 laps, then it became the best race in years. the final decision probably won't be overturned, so let's look forward to monza in only 4 days

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

unless he divebombed Kimi.

I see nothing in the rules claiming that divebombing is illegitimate

Quote from srdsprinter :

This is interesting, and I find it a lot more intelligent that the bold part. Had there been a wall instead of run-off (think goodwood), Lewis would have had to back out or crash. Either way, he probably would not have made that pass into T1 (assuming he'd have to slow considerably from his outside position).
$.02

I understand why people are saying this - however, there is no wall, so it's a moot point.

Also, assuming that Hamilton wouldn't have been able to pass in turn one, is quite incorrect, as he had already gained 3 second on Raikkonen on the previous lap. It's perfectly fair in this case, to assume that he would have been in the position to pass in turn one, given that the McLaren was behaving itself quite a lot more than the Ferrari.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Hamilton was alongside, and perhaps a nose ahead, but on the outside. Thus he has no rights to the racing line.
Hamilton had the inside line to the second apex, but because of the turn itself he was no longer ahead or even alongside, and thus had no rights to the racing line.

So Hamilton had neither overlap (at the critical point) or momentum (Kimi got there first).

Hamilton was closer to Kimi across the finish line than he would have been if he hadn't jumped across the chicane, feathered the throttle until Kimi was only just ahead, and then floored it.

Had he not cut the chicane he would not have been close enough to attempt a pass into La Source.

I'm sorry sir, but you are talking through your bottom.

The chicane is a right left combination. Hamilton overtook Kimi into the chicane on Kimi's left, from directly behind the Ferrari. This means that Hamilton had speed and momentum on Kimi (how else was he able to travel from behind Kimi to alongside him?). The only reason he lost momentum, was because he was squeezed off the track. Raikkonen knew that he was going to lose position (as Hamilton was significantly faster for the whole lap), and took an abnormal line through the chicane.

If you don't think it was abnormal, then you take a look at the rest of the race - there is no reason why Raikkonen was possibly take the line that he did, other than to squeeze Hamilton off the circuit. Further to this, he also KNEW how slippy the track was, and he took a tighter line through the bends regardless of this....

... which also helps to debunk this argument about Hamilton gaining an advantage. The line that Raikkonen took through that chicane was tight enough, and the track was slippy enough, for him to lose a whole heap of time exiting the chicane. The reason he was so far behind when Hamilton re-joined the circuit was because he had to adjust his car after his dodgy line.

Also, just to throw this in there: Ferrari are a bunch of cheats, that bend rules and flex their financial muscle. Also Raikkonen is monotone and boring, and Massa is a poor second place driver to Hamilton. There, I said it

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't see what the problem is either. He came into the corner behind Kimi, and left the corner much closer to Kimi than he would have been had he not cut.

Surely being closer is an advantage. And it was gained by cutting the track. Which bit doesn't make sense here?

I'm sorry, what? Were you watching the same race as me? The facts, that nobody can dispute, is this:

- Hamilton had considerable overlap going into the first part of the chicane.
- Hamilton had inside line in the second part of the chicane.

How can you possibly say that he gained an advantage by letting Raikkonen pass him? Hamilton had overlap, inside line AND momentum. All of those advantages were absolutely, without a shadow of a trout, LOST, when he let Raikkonen pass before the S/F line.

Massa saying "he overtook too soon". Again, I don't see where there is a rule in any rule book saying "you have to wait x seconds before attempting to pass after yielding a position."

Quote from samjh :

Quote from massa :

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained...
...If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter.

Interesting.

"also any other eventual advantage gained."

but in doing this, what people seem to forget is that lewis hamilton actually lost his normal racing advantage. he was already overlapping raikkonen - the second part of the chicane, hamilton had inside line, and was squeezed off the track. in slowing his car down, he actually lost the half-car overlap he had going into the second part of the chicane, AND yielded a cars length. in my opinion, hamilton did more than he was required, in terms of playing fair. also, the resulting overtaking move was under breaking into a corner, not slipstreaming down a long straight, so there was no advantage gained there either.

it's just about applying high school physics to a little bit of common sense.

I have a very strong view on this, but it's not my place to judge, as I'm not qualified enough to say who was right or wrong in this case. HOWEVER ...

Here is something that a certain German driver did a couple of years ago, and it went unpunished. I think it's a fair comparison to make ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

Decide for yourself

Quote from Bean0 :

Not at all.

Excellent, may your god / diety bestow a fruitful Friday afternoon unto you

Quote from Bean0 :

Didn't think people would be after this so soon, but here you go

<snip>

Howdy - just a quick cheeky post - do you have any issues with me swiping these zip files and using some of the images / content for myself, even though I'm not racing this season?

Cheers chaps

Quote from Bob Smith :

wsinda - while I agree that the tag creates a mental division, I fail to see where S2 is really "better" or "above" demo, that creates the superiority issue. It just lets people know who's bought the game and who hasn't.

I mean, if there were to be an eye colour tag, is it obvious which is going to be superior? If anything, it would be like rFactor fanboy vs LFS fanboy, i.e. equal bitching. Regarding the blue-brown experiment you linked to, in that case one group had to be given the different treatment to start it off. I'm not convinced the addition of avatars and signatures really merits that (especially given various people turn them off, so that the only difference left is the "label").

Now obviously people feel that licence > demo, but I think it's that issue which causes the tag to have any relevence. If people didn't think demo users in general were lesser than licenced users, the tag wouldn't make the slightest difference, and the individuals would still be treated like equal people. So as I see it, the root of the problem is really the people, not the tag.

I don't think that the issue is limited purely to the fact that people have the word "Demo racer" under their name. I've recently been on the receiving end of abuse from forum users, for what I believe to be no other reason than my low post count.

It appears that because I haven't been a member of the community for a long time, and my post count reflects that, I'm an idiot with no basis for posting an opinion. I'm also not allowed to disagree with others that have a high post count, or I'll get proverbially nailed to the cross. It also appears to be fair to assume that because I have a low post count, I haven't read the thread fully, and aren't qualified to contribute to the thread.

I've bitten my tongue on a number of occasions, because of some outright blatantly rude and offensive things being aimed at some people, because they either have the word "Demo racer" under their name, or they have a low post count. I'll share another example of this, right here:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=46996

The amount of abuse that the OP receives, is completely unreasonable.

It's also not fair to assume that because someone doesn't meet other people's seemingly high expectations of humanity, they should be subjected to the gang-banging that is becoming more prevalent on these forums. People need to stop forgetting that there are indeed pre-teen and non-english speaking humans using these forums, which is why their grammar, spelling an language doesn't meet their requirements.

It's not a phenomenon that's limited to these forums by any means - there's so many thousands of forums out there that suffer from the same childish elitism. Just do a google search for "forum post count", and see how many requests there are on various forums to have them turned off, for exactly the same reasons as people have stated here. Having a "Demo racer" tag, while different to read, results in the same attitude from others.

It's sad, that I make a post like this, just one month after buying myself into an S2 license. I love playing LFS online with good racing and gentlemanly conduct, but it seems that these forums, increasingly, don't reflect this ideal that I've found in the driving seat.

When I'm tired of racing, or had too much to drink, I normally jump on a cruise server, cause some mayhem. Last night, I raised an XRG as high as it would go, had no damping, no anti-roll, and drove with the aim of drifting corners. Power sliding around corners, with the back end bouncing about 4 foot of the ground is hilarious.

In reality, I really don't see the point in cruise servers, but it's a nice deviation every once in a while.

Quote from IDUI :

After all we're all here just to have fun, right?

This is the most sensible thing that I have read in this whole thread (which I didn't read, by the way, I just posted blindly...)

Quote from kaynd :

I don’t demand from you to read all those 18pages to have a clue on what is being discussed here.
But you could just resist posting…
This topic is that long because people like you post from 0 basis recycling the topic’s discussion again and again…

We talk strictly and only for that small but crucial advantage someone has when using an outside application to macro the button clutch operation with the gear change.

The advantage only in straight acceleration of the consistent-effortless use of the button clutch has been proven here.
(the advantage over normal Autoclutch)

To an average racer that advantage may seem ridiculously small, but it’s there and when the lap time differences come down to 10milisec it’s quite apparent…

If you don’t care just don’t post.

No need to take it so personally. This is a discussion board that everybody is perfectly at liberty to contribute to, whether or not they agree or disagree with each other.

Speaking of 0 basis, you've just made statements about me that you also have 0 basis for. Enough already ...

Quote from [DUcK] :

no. thats not what its about. its about drivings being relatively even untill some guy comes along and beats you by 0.3, and his driving isnt even that much better. if they beat you with ac so be it, they may have gotten lucky with a good lap or they are better at that combo than you, but really its been going on for 18 pages cos people keep coming on and saying "it doesnt make that much difference... blah blah"
/end

that's fair enough, but just because someone isn't driving that much better than you and skimming your lap times, it doesn't mean they're cheating. they might have hit a sweet spot with a setup, for example. there's a hell of a lot of variables to take into account before sweeping statements as such can be taken seriously. and no, i'm not taking sides at all here, just taking an outsiders view

I find it hard to believe that this discussion has even been going on for 10 pages, let alone 18.

If it's a game feature, then everybody has access to it and therefore it's all fair. It's your choice if you want to use it or not.

If it's an addon that achieves something that wasn't intended by the developers, this is in MY opinion cheating.

And Let's be brutally honest, affecting how the clutch is disengaged or engaged should make such a TINY difference anyway. If you feel that it's really worth 18 pages of forum discussion, then perhaps you need to look elsewhere at your driving, and not how fast you can change gear.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

If you are getting bored of CTRA 1's wreckers, you can also go to the second entry-level server, the UF-Baby-R. We haven't many drivers than on this server, but races are very clean here, and the UF-BR is quite easy to drive.

The Baby-R is easy to drive initially, but when you are in a pack of 15 drivers, all lapping within 0.2 seconds of each other, it's not so easy all of a sudden. You feel the circuit a lot more with these motors.

CTRA UF-BR is the server where it's at, in my opinion. We're all gents in there, who are all about tight racing, not driving as fast as possible

I've been playing LFS for a few weeks now, and I've decided that it's time to get stuck into using some addons, tweaking the graphics card settings, using high resolution skins, etc.

I'm not by any means mindless when it comes to computers, as I've worked in IT for some 13 years, and I'm currently employed as a Software Developer. However, I'm finding it difficult (and in turn, frustrating) to find out how to do these things with LFS

I've seen some screenshots on these very forums, and I've thought "I'll get LFS looking like that", but no amount of trawling through the plethora of threads tells me what I need to know.

Don't get me wrong, there are lots of great threads that have great information in them, but most of those were created 2+ patches ago, and tailing towards the end of the threads, most people are saying things like "this doesn't work now" and "can someone tell me how to get this working" - and these tend to go unnoticed amongst the majority of posts boasting wonderful screenshots of working addons.

It would be great if there was a thread, something along the lines of "S2z: Essential Addon How-To", with simple "idiot proof" instructions, so that people like me (who haven't been using LFS for the past 3 years, don't have a PhD in modding and are assumed to know nothing at all about addons) can make their LFS look as good as everyone elses.

I'm sorry for rambling on, and I'm truly greatful for LFS having such a great official forum, but there is SO much information that is SO unstructured, it's very hard to dig out the information that people like me need to know.

Last paragraph now, I swear . Something like a thread with just:

Version: S2z
Addon: Bloom
Files to get: Link here.
What to do:

1. Put circle in square
   
2. push red button
   
3. Fold paper
   
4. Voila, you have a working Sailboat.
   

I hope this makes sense. Heck, I'll even help out, so long as I can find the information that I need

Cheers guys

Quote from webdigga :

Goddamn, I proof read that about 5 times too

You should never start a sentence with the word 'and'. You shouldn't use double quotes unless you are quoting somebody. You missed a capital G, you didn't capitalize your I, and you used the word "use" instead of "used". Twice.

What I'm getting at is, if you used proper English like a normal human being, you probably wouldn't receive such mockery, and would be infinitely closely to achieving your goal. Don't take it personally, it's a pet hate, even more so now than ever, because it's becoming too frequent. I'm starting to lose faith in humanity.

/slits wrists

Quote from BenjiMC :

45million?? this in USD? highest i know of it like £20 mil

But yeh, it is a low price.

Real Madrid were prepared to pay £60m+ for Cristiano Ronaldo *shrug*

Quote from farcar :

It would be great if someone could make different game that cruisers could go to. I understand this is a very harsh comment, but they're a blight on the community from my point of view. There, I said it.
This is a racing simulator which has been designed to replicate motor racing. I feel that the increasingly large number of people using this software as a glorified chat room are putting off people who want to use LFS as was intended.
I also understand that people will argue that they can use LFS however they like, and that is true. It's just my opinion that they are a blight on the game and it's community.

Karma++

You just said what I wanted to say, but mine might have got me arrested. I prefer yours

Hey man, if this is how you act, then stay away from CTRA servers, because the guys there don't put up with kids acting like idiots.

Quote from shawn812 :

thanks for da info ill try dat and i usually dnt cruise just drift

THE, THAT and DON'T.

I think you should learn to write, and perhaps speak, before anything else

FYI, I had this last night, whereby I was playing along fine, and for seemingly no reason my connection was dropped. I dropped out to Windows, and my Wireless connection had dropped. After a few seconds, it re-negotiated again just fine.

So I started playing again, and rejoined a new server, played for about five minutes, and again I dropped from the host. Again, Wireless networking was down, and again it re-negotiated fine. It did this possibly five or six time, and only sorted once I rebooted.

It appeared that it was only happening when I was playing the game. I've been connected remotely to my PC at home all day today without a single packet lost, so I'll test tonight and see if starting the game causes Wireless to drop again. I suspect this might be more of an issue with the Windows TCP/IP stack, so I'll check the log files later and report back.