Quote from SamH :

tbh, yeah I was thinking specifically of you. As I said before, I'm not a fan of irrational thinkers and a lot of your posts are irrational. I suspect they're often in response to opposing irrational posts, but it doesn't make your posts any more rational.

I beg to differ. Having said that, I wouldn't expect anything less of myself

Quote from SamH :

My wife was an irrational thinker. She couldn't get her head around the fact that you need air to breathe. Irrational people are sooo difficult to drown.

Hah! A good enough way to wrap up my "day at work"

Edit: Just noticed - you probably don't like the colour of my rose either. Pffff.

Quote from SamH :

I can count 2 fanatics on this forum, for whom Hamilton can do no wrong.

I'm unsure if this blanket was covering me here, but just in case it was, I'd like to make it clear:

I am a big fan of Hamilton, and would gladly follow him around the world circuits (money permitting). However, I'm not so blinkered to think he can do no wrong. I understand as much as his big critics that he's made some pretty schoolboy errors in the last two seasons.

What I do take exception to though, is statements to the contrary of well documented truths, pit-lane rumours, Ferrari-based fanaticism, country-based warmongering or similar.

People can have their jokes about "you're new to the internet aren't you?", which I admit found amusing myself :haha:. The reality is, I'm very much an internet old-timer, have been around the block enough times to see good usenet threads spiral into mud throwing contests over the years.

I was hoping that a thread such as this might just spark some factual, informative discussion based on facts and figures. When people throw speculation into discussion, it removes a large portion of value to the discussion, as speculation has infinite scope

People should stick to cold hard facts, and not make assumptions or speculations based on opinion.

Quote from mr_x :

Button would be miles ahead as Hamilton has no idea how to get the best out of a slow car.

Seeing as Hamilton has never been "graced" with a slow car, you base your evidence on what exactly?

Quote from Mustafur :

He was given the best funding possible for all the development series he was in, its simply put.

Nick Heidfeld was also on the McLaren Mercedes Young Driver Support Programme.

Quote from 5haz :

Hes had Mclaren behind him all the way since age 8.

What's wrong with that? They didn't make him into a bionic boy did they? No, he's still human. So, I repeat, what's wrong with that?

Quote from tristancliffe :

But they're not top of the legends list.

You're saying Senna and Schumacher aren't THE Legends of F1?

Quote from tristancliffe :

But then again, Senna and Schumacher had to prove their ability before getting in a top team, and they both managed to win races in way less than the best car. Something Hamilton hasn't done, and I don't think he'd be able to - he makes it look hard enough in the McLaren.

2000 - European Formula A - Champion
2000 - Formula A World Cup - Winner
2003 - Formula Renault UK - Champion
2005 - Formula 3 Euroseries - Champion
2006 - GP2 - Champion

How else could he possibly have proven his ability before getting into a team? Fly to the moon using only his arms? FYI, I'm sure you're also aware how evenly matched these series are.

Since, then he came second in his rookie season in F1, and has matched or set the following records:

- Most consecutive podiums from debut race (9)
- Most consecutive podiums for a British driver (9)
- Youngest driver to lead the World Championship (22 years old)
- Most wins in a debut season (4)
- Most pole positions in a debut season (6)

Quote from tristancliffe :

The funny thing is that on tyres of the same age and similar fuel loads people WEREN'T quicker than him.

I'm sure that there is pure physics that could explain this, but without knowing formula, I couldn't give a scientific answer. But look at it like this - all cars must have various optimum values for optimal racing. In conditions such as this, those settings are all flattened out, making the playing field much more even. For example, an F1 car might lap a circuit 6 times faster than a standard road car, but in the rain, it might lap a circuit only 4 times faster.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Besides, if winning from the front is so easy it confirms my suspicion that Hamilton isn't an all time great as he's only ever had the best car (or second best car) in F1. Stick him in a Torro Rosso and watch him burn!

Nobody is disputing the fact that he's in a very good car, but Formula One isn't all about the car - it's also about having the ability to get the most of the car as a driver. Kovi has the same car, but isn't nearly as quick, even with the same fuel levels. Put Michael Schumacher in a Jordan (back in the day) and watch him burn too. A driver can only be as good as his car.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Vettel. Kubica. Raikkonen. Button. Glock. Sutil. Rosberg. Kovalainen. Bourdais. Webber. Heidfeld. Trulli. Barrichello. Coulthard. Fisichella.

These drivers have nothing to be cocky about.

Two of the most famous F1 drivers in recent times, are Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher. You can't dispute that, it's a fact. And they won a lot, that's also pure fact. Another pure fact is that most people didn't like the way they acted or drove, thought they were cocky.

"To be successful you don't have to be like that at all" - fair enough, but I reckon to be on top of the legends list, Senna and Schumacher say otherwise.

Quote from Hyperactive :

What Veltlet did was to get the pole and win in a far inferior car, being faster than the fastest other cars, totally dominating the race and keeping his nerves in check.

No doubt he had a good race setup, but saying that he won solely because of this is pure nonsense. He had a great deal of luck handed to him in qualifying. Nearly everyone qualified "out of position". As a result, the grid on race day was a mess, and people had to do significantly more overtaking than normal, and in the rain. Vettel didn't have to do anything other than keep his car on the circuit. Sure, he did a good job, but when the faster drivers broke free of the crowd (all be it too late in the race) they were lapping consistently better than him.

As for Vettel being a nice bloke, I think he's one of the nicest chaps in F1. Unlike some F1 drivers that are patronising in interviews, he talks frankly and honestly, and has a sense of humour to boot, which in F1 is a rarity. Oh, he also has more than a single tone in his voice too

Quote from thisnameistaken :

One unexpected benefit of this thread is that those of us who like Hamilton's driving but think he's a cock can at least take comfort in knowing he's not as much of a cock as his fans are.

Grow up.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Sorry but that is quite a big fanboy glass you have there.

Never denied it

Quote from zeugnimod :

Which driver did attack Hamilton publicly

Quote from zeugnimod :

Hamilton mostly critical of his own driving? Come on, you can't really mean that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/7669827.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/7675283.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/7665767.stm

And, YES, these are BBC news pages, but IMO they are about as unbiased as they come, seeing as most of the time they bash Hamilton too. The BBC are pompous Tory butt kissers...

Quote from zeugnimod :

What is wrong with that? He doesn't like Hamilton so he wants Massa to win and is going to help Massa if he is in a position to do so.

Why would he be in the position to do so? He doesn't drive for Ferrari. He's just making a nuisance of himself, sticking his nose in where it isn't needed.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Hamilton fan, right?

Well done

The difference being, that Hamilton is mostly critical of his own driving, his own race, and his own team. If these drivers put as much effort into their driving as they did in publicly attacking Lewis Hamilton perhaps they would have less to whine about.

@xaotik: That's what fans do. Wiki it

Quote from BlueFlame :

dawguk is clearly a Hammyfanboy. but regardless, his attitude isn't childish, it's just... Hamilton, that's who he is, he will never change. Schumacher was a cheat, Kimi is... emotionless. Mika was funny, and Button is clearly jealous of Hamilton

you're right, i am a fan of hamilton. however, i'm also a fan of kovalainen, trulli, vettel, heidfeld and for old times sake, barrichello.

i've watched f1 for some twenty three years now, so i've seen some great drivers come and go. alain prost, jean "crazy" allesi, gerhard berger, nigel mansell, ayrton senna, jacque villeneuve. these guys for me, were the types of drivers that made formula one great. the reason why i'm fans of the above drivers, is because i see the same sort of star qualities in them. they can make f1 great again, because they have the ability and (not least of all) personalities to do so. you could say that hamilton drives on the ragged edge some times, but it sure makes the sport a whole lot more watchable.

Quote from xaotik :

Uncalled-for aggressiveness is not as cool as the rest of the internet has you believing. Please reconsider your approach if you would like having discussions instead of pointless slugging matches.

in it's context (which you removed), it was fitting. further to this, i'd like to discuss how you are informed about what i might or might not learn from the the internet. you're a special person, for being able to read minds.

if my post was pointless, your response to it was equally so.

Quote from Mustafur :

I have yet to be proven he isn't childish, hes attitude is ultra conservitive/childish he barely says anything out of line but when he does its childish(montreal for example).

your point is self-negating completely. how can someone possibly be conservative AND childish? your logic is flawed. i suspect that you're now using words that you don't actually understand.

Quote from Mustafur :

but hes attitude is childish

you're an idiot.

just speaking my mind, which is a good thing, right?

Quote from diablo21 :

Proof?

Late on this one, but just to prove a point:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/10826

All the proof you need.

Good day!

Quote from diablo21 :

He said they're not treating him right. It's a rumour but eh.. He is not at the level that a driver in a top team should be.

I really don't believe that a bias currently exists at McLaren. I wonder if this alleged "rumour" like lots of other alleged "rumours" lately are all drummed up by people that are both nothing to do with McLaren (in which case, they aren't qualified to comment) and people that are willing Ferrari to win everything (in which case, they can just GTFO).

Quote from Mustafur :

It will be like 05 and 06 all over agian but this time he will have everyone supporting him

Not this man. Alonso has acted like a child in at least the last two races. You can call Hami as egotistical as you like, but at least he doesn't say things like "I will ensure xxdriver doesn't win by helping his nearest rival". What a complete douche.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Whereas Hamilton's biggest fault is that he tries to beat everybody at every race.

That's not a fault at all, that's a strength. Nothing wrong with wanting to achieve something. You don't get given anything in life, so when you have an opportunity like him, you make sure you damn well take it.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think he just cannot stand being beaten, especially by Fernando and Kimi, and I think it's mostly because they've had world championships and he hasn't. It's like he's feels he's got to beat them every race to prove that he's at their level.

On a few occasions McLaren have said they've been on the radio constantly telling him to slow down, it seems like he just can't bear the idea of finishing second. Maybe if he does win the championship this year it will calm him down a bit, but I doubt it.

This is a gem. Who likes being beaten by ANYONE? Stop making out that Hamilton is some kind of sub-human.

Also, in pretty much all of the interviews I have seen on TV this year, Ron Dennis has said repeatedly, that he lets Hami do pretty much what he wants on the track. If he's leading a race, I can't see him driving too fast, and when he's not, I can't imagine the team would tell him to slow down. Tsh.

Quote from SamH :

I think Hamilton's a bit battered and bruised. Quite a few people he respects have been pretty honest about the way he still drives like he's karting. Got a feeling one or two of his heroes have said some non-too-kind things about the way he handles himself on the track, and I think he's hurting.

Alonso's lucky in this respect. His hero, Senna, ain't around to tell the F1 press what a wanker Alonso is and how the only team that wants him is Honda, because their current drivers are utterly shite. The other teams would rather do what they can with what they've got than risk him blackmailing them if he doesn't get the biggest Winnebago in the paddock.

IMO, these other whiney drivers should shut up or step up. If Hami's driving was deemed to aggressive, then he'd have a penalty on every corner. No, the reality is they know he's that much better, and the only way they can get him back, is by childish name calling and finger pointing. Sad.

Also, agreed @ Alonso. I was starting to warm to him again this year after last year's shenanigans, but he's just gone right down again in my estimation. Drivers should drive, and keep their mouths shut.

Quote from Gunn :

It is really only through the moronic efforts of the British press that people even think of this as an issue. Notice in the post-race interviews that the interviewer was trying desperately to create a scandal from it?

In the past, when this sort of thing has happened, it HAS caused a scandal. Let's not forget, we're crying out for consistency here, so let's not pretend that we should expect anything less from ANY press, let alone the British.

Quote from duke_toaster :

The part owners of McLaren do though.

Exactly my point.

Quote from robt :

That would make it a Ferrari engine on a mclaren ECU just to keep it simple of course

The difference being that Ferrari make cars, and McLaren don't.

Flavio Briatore needs to shut his fat mouth right up. I read on another website today, him making personal attacks against Lewis Hamilton, calling him an alien, and saying things like "if he was a footballer, he'd be the type that never scored goals". Seriously, these things are childish - and people say that Lewis doesn'y deserve the WDC, but with the amount of mouthing off going on, I can't think of anybody else that is even remotely as deserving.

Another car howler:

Mitsubishi released the Starion in 1982. It is widely believed that the Japanese intended the name to be "Stallion", but due to lack of "l" in Japanese, the name was spelled with "r" instead

Also:

Speed bumps around Britain don't extend to the whole width of the road any more. The new "lumps" are designed specifically, so that an Ambulance can travel at speed, and straddle it without causing harm to it's occupants

Quote from BlueFlame :

Kubica on the other hand, IS blisteringly quick, IF the BMW's are competetive.

Yeah, but he doesn't photo well, does he? And his voice ...


... who knows, maybe I'm right?

Quote from srdsprinter :

I really believe the Bourdais pentalty to be bogus, but...

Devil's Advocate: Isn't there a great big blinking blue light at the end of the pit lane?

Why would there be a blue light? He was racing for position with Massa.