This thread is nonsense. Having had it last year, the BGP drivers would have been nowhere on the list, so it's just another poll that favours the team doing best at the minute.

Re: Hamilton being lucky

Exactly how is spinning off the circuit four or more times, possibly deemed as being lucky?

He's stated in an interview after the race, that the team were having problems setting up the car for his driving style, which is why he was using his tires so quickly - he went on to say that after 5 laps his front left tire had gone.

Now I'm not sure how much people understand about how the extreme wet tires work, but those tires without the grip is like using slicks. If his tires really were as dead as he said, then IMO he was pretty feckin skilled at managing to keep the car on the road for as long as he did, and not lose more positions.

Sure, it might be an excuse by Hamilton, but at least it's an informed excuse instead of an uninformed "armchair-driver" theory.

Also, when he had a clean set of tires on, there was absolutely nothing lucky about how easily he was passing others on the circuit.

Anyway, enough. Driver of the day IMO, was Heiki. He made most places, only made one tiny mistake, and managed to keep his car out of trouble while other around him were falling all over each other.

Buemi looking good, but he's DEFINITELY a lucky boy not doing more damage to his own car / Vettel's car in the *touch* he had.

Kubica - ROFL. Thinks his car is a plane. Certainly flies quite well.

No, I expect you're right. I expect that everyone drove slowly in P1, to allow Hamilton to top out

As for "Practice means nothing" - people said "pre-season testing means nothing", and actually it meant everything

I'm not saying that McLaren are going to stick a car on pole, but it's undeniable that they've obviously made a good step up.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes, I'm jealous. Or at least I was until I was about 14.

But you're only 15 now! :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

Funny how Hamilton topped the time sheets, but is back down to 13th in P2. Let's see how slow they are.

Aye, it is strange that. The McLaren was there in P1, but miles off in P2. I would imagine that because this is their first opportunity to run with it, they were trying something different and it didn't work. Yes, the other teams were faster in P2, but there's no reason to think that the McLaren couldn't do the same unless something was adjusted.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Have you seen their diffuser on the Autosport gallery? It looks like I made it. Clearly a rush job, probably done at the circuit.

Of course it's a rush job. Why would they throw a load of money at a part that they might not legally be able to use? Makes business sense to wait for the ruling before throwing money at it. They only been able test it's aero abilities on a simulator, so I would imagine that they've gone for a semi-calculated "safe bet".

Once again, the inimitable Mr. Cliffe is showing his ugly jealous side. No worries son, just put a few more thousand laps in, and maybe you can get to race in GP2 aswell :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe it should read: McLaren's future with Hamilton in doubt. McLaren will recover and move on from this, probably before the end of the year if they're not disqualified or banned. Hamilton will always be remembered as a lying cheat (with no personality).

/throws toys from pram

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

+1, put much better than I could,.

+1, I hate McLaren and Hamilton too.

/slurp

Quote from bbman :

So, from this text I take it you're a mindless soldier who's whoring his beliefs to the lowest(?) bidder?

If you'd have read the FIA text, you'd know that Hamilton was asked TWICE if he had let Trulli past, and INSISTED he didn't... He might not have killed someone, but may I remind you that fraud is also a punishable crime?

You can take from it what you like, but you're wrong, because you haven't understood the concept.

Also, fraud? Haha, that's a new one. F1 drivers getting done for fraud, because they did what their boss told them to do... how mind bogglingly fantastic.

Quote from Albieg :

You can follow your own advice then, since you're unwilling to follow your logic.

My logic is fine, because nobody took the consequences into account when discussing this. I'm not denying that there is a line to be crossed. Example, if my boss told me to break the law, I wouldn't do it. If however, my boss told me to withhold information from someone, so that our company could get the upper hand, then I would gladly do so.

That's all that's happened. Don't lose your heads over it.

Quote from Albieg :

I understand this because I am in the exact situation in which I may be asked to do something illegal at my job position.
I already told my boss not to spread any more information about his intentions, and that includes asking me to do something I'm unwilling to do. He seems to have understood the message pretty well.

Does it jeopardize my job? Maybe. But I'm unwilling to jeoparize my freedom to defend someone for something I didn't do. Freedom isn't replaceable when you're in a jail, and neither a job is. There's a limit to loyalty, and the last time I checked the "We were only following orders" defense didn't work too well.
If you don't understand it, well, follow your own advice.

Sounds liek if it was going to result in jail, then whatever your boss asked you to do, was CONSIDERABLY different to what Lewis Hamilton was asked to do...

Quote from zeugnimod :

I guess it's hard to imagine but for you but there actually are people who stand up for their own opinion and don't blindly follow orders "just" to keep a job.

Yeah, I disagree with lots of what my bosses do and say, but I'm still in a good job that earns me money. If I sat here and disagreed about everything, I wouldn't be in a job, I wouldn't have any income, and my kid and missus wouldn't have a house to live in.

OHNOES! THE MORAL DECLINE OF THE WORLD!

Get real ...

Also, let's not take this out of context - Hamilton was probably told to "follow my lead", and "when asked about x, say that y happened." It's not exactly if somebody has asked him to murder someone, or steal their baby.

I've gone into an external meeting with my boss, and he's asked me not to mention something about something. Do I stand there and say "hang on, no, lying is wrong, I'm going to tell them the truth!" or do I say "sure thing boss..."? Seriously, what are you guys smoking?

Last edited by dawguk, Fri 3 Apr 2009, 12:38.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

I think it's more a case of engineering the fallout with this other fella taking the fall in order to protect their golden boy and their future participation in the championship.

I imagine this Ryan chap will get a hefty payout to buy his silence, because if he turned around and said that Whitmarsh was aware and compliant in this situation then that's McLaren out of F1.

At this time, Dave Ryan is suspended - not exactly the same as being sacked.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

To be honest that is a piss poor excuse and shows more about Lewis than anything else.

If that is the case then he should have been able to realise what is likely to happen, and have the ball and guts to actually say what really happened. Instead, if it is as simple as it is made out to be, then Lewis acted in a deceitful manner and was weak.

When people say things like this, I have to wonder if they've ever managed to hold down a job in their lives. If my boss told me to do something underhanded (which he has in the past), instead of jeopardising my job, I will follow out his instructions without question. He's my boss for a reason, he makes decisions for a reason, and it's not for me to question him.

If people don't understand this, then they should plainly STFU, dig themselves out of their little cotton wool balls, and learn what the real world is all about.

Quote from 5haz :

I'm fairly impressed with Hamilton for not making a complete arse of himself under pressure.

But what a race! Fighting in the last few laps is something to be welcomed, eventhough it ended very quickly in tears.

You're a fool. Why was he under any more pressure than any other driver? Going by your rationale:

"I'm very unimpressed with Vettel and Kubica for being unable to drive under pressure"

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't remember when Hamilton has expressed a real opinion, other than when he called the backmarkers the "monkeys at the back". Since then he just seems to spout PR scripted nonsense.

But now he IS a monkey at the back (probably, based on the dire testing performances) he'll have to eat his words. And this year will be the first we can see, properly, whether he is made of the right stuff - assuming the car is as rubbish as it looks. Marvellous.

He speaks his mind, people say he's full of himself. He reads from a script, and people claim that he's a robot with no brain. Is it any wonder that he spouts "PR scripted nonsense", when everything he does and says is jumped on by idiots like you?

Quote from 5haz :

This is becoming a joke, how can we have such drastic rule changes, and then reversals of changes just a few weeks before the first race, someone tell the FIA to shut up please.

Blimey! Hamilton actually expressed an opinion for a change! Although the words probrably came from his PR man.

http://www.f1technical.net/new ... 34015e5cf1af8c1fd94bf5991

What's this nonsense? Last year, people were complaining that he expressed his opinion too much. Haters need to make their minds up...

I find it hard to believe that people even comment about it being a good idea, when the drivers themselves (yes, the people directly affected by the rule change, and people who are actually knowledgable) have all said "This rule change is not a good idea".

Some people like having a different opinion just to get a rise from others, so don't continue to be baited by them, just sit back with the rest of the world and laugh at how silly they look

I just had to double take, and I haven't found it anywhere else yet, but here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/3/9028.html

Thoughts?

Quote from Lateralus :

This is complete bullshit, for a couple reasons:

1) The odds of a driver winning the first nine races of the season are pretty much zero. Even approaching that is exceedingly unlikely. The odds of another Schumacher/Ferrari situation occuring again are also pretty much zero.

2) Even if a driver wins the title with five or six races to go, do you really think the team will keep him if he just "doesn't show up" for the last events? The team still want those constuctors' points, and a driver who essentially says that he doesn't care about the team will soon be gone. He still has incentive to drive hard. Look at Alonso in 2005 - he won the title with a few races left, yet he drove like hell in Japan and China because he wanted to win the title for his team.

Additionally, the idea that this is some kind of massive convoluted consipiracy by Bernie to ruin F1 and support a particular driver is so incredibly naïve and ignorant that it isn't even worth addressing. It's absolutely pathetic, and I wonder why such stupid people continue to watch F1, since it's just a big engineered, manipulated charade, right? Bernie pressed a button to make Lewis' gearbox malfunction in Brazil 2007, after all. He sits in an ivory tower with a golden crown overlooking the track, and he has buttons and dials in front of him which allow him to destroy a driver's engine, or cause a fuel leak, or even cause a driver to crash! Bernie hates F1 and wants FOM to lose money and fail.

EXPLETIVE OVERLOAD.

Broken down, your reply amounted to:

"I have a different OPINION to you, therefore you are pathetic".

Then the last sentences was just sarcasm, with the intention of provoking another round of arguments. Thanks for your text. Unfortunately, you have added no more value to the debate than anyone else.

Anybody here is just as well informed as anybody else, so quit with the self-righteousness attitude, and maybe grow up a little bit.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Or maybe they removed anything that can be removed, taken the ballast out, and are running on fumes in a hope that the fact they're screwed might not be noticed for a week or so?

I provide the facts, you provide the speculation :P

Further news re: McLaren - Heikki is running 1m18s laps this afternoon, which is much more competitive. Perhaps McLaren have finally found and fixed their troublesome hardware.

Quote from BurnOut69 :

McLaren shouldnt even consider KERS, my god, Lewis would have ANOTHER button in his cockpit!

Silly little Spaniard.

Anyway, according to thef1.es, McLaren are making improvements today, running around a 4th place. Must be their new "trial and error" rear wing that they made up quickly in the garage last night

Quote from tristancliffe :

So would relying on a sensible points system that rewards winners without shutting the drivers that are not quite regular winners (e.g. Kubica 2008) out of the championship battle. Sure, statistically the consistent drivers rarely actually win the championship, but they are often an extra thing for the main protagonists to keep an eye on.

Remember Frentzen in the Jordan (in 2000?) sneaking up on the championship win without anyone noticing? Not going to happen anymore.

Remember Kubica or Coulthard or <insert an almost limitless number of drivers over the years that have scored a lot of points without a lot of wins> who have nearly upset the game? No longer.

Sure, once or twice you get the situation like Brazil where Hamilton was happy to flump around in 5th, but isn't that part of the strategy?

Would you like Tennis if only the aces counted, and normal points were, essentially, removed? No. Would you like Cricket if only boundaries counted? Would you like Snooker if only the Black counted?

It's a daft rule, and clutching a recent events (Brazil) to justify it as being okay is silly. They should have gone to 13,8,... or returned to 10,6,... points - a large incentive to win, a large points haul for the win, but an opportunity to still work towards the championship when wins aren't possible.

I think that everyone is missing vital points here, and that is that not all the cars are equally matched. At least with the points system, a team that absolutely could not win every Grand Prix, still had a hope (even a tiny glimmer) at getting a Championship driver by being consistent. Now? They have no chance.

And guess what, if your car isn't capable, you certainly can't make it any better, because there's no mid-season testing, and you've just had quarter of your budget taken away! Hurrah for Bernie! ****ing idiot.

Quote from Bean0 :

I just had a look at previous seasons results.
The only season (going back as far as 1990) where going by number of wins rather than points would change the outcome was last year.

And last year the title was won by a black man. Coincidence? Hmmmmm.....


(sorry, trolling a bit)

Quote from Intrepid :

The car isn't go slowly, the driver is going slowly. If there was rear traction issues we would see them very easily. Not once have I seen the McLaren go for it under acceleration, even through corners that have large run-off.

Sorry, I didn't know you have exclusive camera footage on the pedals

I don't understand what the difference is here. You not seeing the McLaren go for it, could just as easily be down to the car being dialled back.