Liked it a lot 
Starting scenes are great!
You have to practice a bit more in using some different or more appropriate camera angles to what you want to show.
eg from 1.52 to 2.08. You could have split this action shot to more than one phase, using different camera positions. It looks too long and kind of boring as it is now. Τhe flash effect doesn’t help much there. Same goes with 2.12, 2.20 where the camera could initially be closer to the car and then start to move backwards as the subject gets closer.
I think you already have the skill to take some really good shots. I sense that you got a bit bored filming the final shots of the movie and you didn’t pay as much attention as you did in the beginning.
Try to be more consistent and don’t get overconfident by the good comments you might have for this video.
Starting scenes are great! You have to practice a bit more in using some different or more appropriate camera angles to what you want to show.
eg from 1.52 to 2.08. You could have split this action shot to more than one phase, using different camera positions. It looks too long and kind of boring as it is now. Τhe flash effect doesn’t help much there. Same goes with 2.12, 2.20 where the camera could initially be closer to the car and then start to move backwards as the subject gets closer.
I think you already have the skill to take some really good shots. I sense that you got a bit bored filming the final shots of the movie and you didn’t pay as much attention as you did in the beginning.
Try to be more consistent and don’t get overconfident by the good comments you might have for this video.
indeed. I just focused at the end result of any limited slip differential.
Anyway still even a clutch pack LSD or any torque sensitive LSD is not about keeping equal torque in both wheels.
The point is always to distribute the torque towards the tire that has more traction. LSD is not about sending equal torque to each wheel. Its about limiting the angular velocity differences between the, two driven by the diff, wheels.
While I can understand roughly how method A applies, I can't understand at all method B. (talking about open diff)
Are you sure that method B works? What in this method indicates that both left and right output torques are equal at all times? Method B seems to fit better in a locked diff simulation.
Are you sure that method B works? What in this method indicates that both left and right output torques are equal at all times? Method B seems to fit better in a locked diff simulation.
Jeezz… for anyone posting how stuff work or simplistic general idea videos. Of course Bob knows in general how open diff works.
Title states clearly that he is seeking a solution from the mathematic point of view.
In locked diff both wheels rotate at the same speed but not necessarily both wheels transfer the same amount of torque to the ground. If it’s a traction limited case then the wheel that has more traction delivers grater torque to the ground. If both wheels have sufficient traction, then the torque delivery of each wheel depends on the relative distance each wheel rolling to in the same amount of time. Because both wheels have the same angular velocity, if they are not following the same tracks (eg in a turn) they deliver different amount of torque to the ground at the same time.
Anyway this is an example of useless information in this thread. I might be able to understand how a diff works but that doesn’t mean I can explain that in mathematic formulas.
I just want to add a +1 to that.
As an answer to “where the other XX amount of torque goes” It isn’t going any ware. Any engine provides at a given rotation speed as much torque as it’s asked to give. Till a point when the engine reaches it’s maximum torque delivery limit. (Common sense. I just write it down so the middle sentence doesn’t look illogical.)
So stop worrying about it and start working on the important stuff. (how power-angular velocity is transmitted between the two wheels.)
Now adding some general thoughts, I hope will help as a methodology in trying to solve this problem.
Generally we know that given specific circumstances a certain amount of torque is needed to overcome the traction of the less loaded wheel. While this happens we know that, speaking about an ideal diff with no internal friction, at both wheels is applied the same torque, limited from the wheel that is using the most power. (the one spinning in a greater speed).
If you know how much torque is needed to overcome the friction of the more likely to break traction wheel, you can calculate the power it uses each moment to increase it’s angular velocity, overcoming any friction and angular inertia. Then you know the torque applied to the other wheel and can calculate the power that is delivered to it. (if any in case it doesn’t rotate at all).
So the required power for this to happen is the sum of the power delivered to both wheels.
Then you can calculate the specific amount of torque that is transferred from the engine to the diff.
Using power because that way you don’t need to know the relation between the “planet” gears and the gears attached to the axels in order to calculate the specific amount of torque delivered from the pinion gear to the crown wheel, when a wheel is spinning faster than the other and final gear ratio has nothing to do with it anymore…
(a bit exaggerating by saying "nothing" but it is almost nothing if you don't know the relation between all gears in the diff when wheels are rotating in different speed.)
I am trying hard to make any sense.
Title states clearly that he is seeking a solution from the mathematic point of view.
In locked diff both wheels rotate at the same speed but not necessarily both wheels transfer the same amount of torque to the ground. If it’s a traction limited case then the wheel that has more traction delivers grater torque to the ground. If both wheels have sufficient traction, then the torque delivery of each wheel depends on the relative distance each wheel rolling to in the same amount of time. Because both wheels have the same angular velocity, if they are not following the same tracks (eg in a turn) they deliver different amount of torque to the ground at the same time.
Anyway this is an example of useless information in this thread. I might be able to understand how a diff works but that doesn’t mean I can explain that in mathematic formulas.
I just want to add a +1 to that.
As an answer to “where the other XX amount of torque goes” It isn’t going any ware. Any engine provides at a given rotation speed as much torque as it’s asked to give. Till a point when the engine reaches it’s maximum torque delivery limit. (Common sense. I just write it down so the middle sentence doesn’t look illogical.)
So stop worrying about it and start working on the important stuff. (how power-angular velocity is transmitted between the two wheels.)
Now adding some general thoughts, I hope will help as a methodology in trying to solve this problem.
Generally we know that given specific circumstances a certain amount of torque is needed to overcome the traction of the less loaded wheel. While this happens we know that, speaking about an ideal diff with no internal friction, at both wheels is applied the same torque, limited from the wheel that is using the most power. (the one spinning in a greater speed).
If you know how much torque is needed to overcome the friction of the more likely to break traction wheel, you can calculate the power it uses each moment to increase it’s angular velocity, overcoming any friction and angular inertia. Then you know the torque applied to the other wheel and can calculate the power that is delivered to it. (if any in case it doesn’t rotate at all).
So the required power for this to happen is the sum of the power delivered to both wheels.
Then you can calculate the specific amount of torque that is transferred from the engine to the diff.
Using power because that way you don’t need to know the relation between the “planet” gears and the gears attached to the axels in order to calculate the specific amount of torque delivered from the pinion gear to the crown wheel, when a wheel is spinning faster than the other and final gear ratio has nothing to do with it anymore…
(a bit exaggerating by saying "nothing" but it is almost nothing if you don't know the relation between all gears in the diff when wheels are rotating in different speed.)
I am trying hard to make any sense.
Last edited by kaynd, .
It’s not possible for you to be the first one to turn on the engine.
Engine has already run in the factory for a specific amount of time and in specific conditions. It’s an essential part of the quality control procedure of any product like this.
Now as for the distance driven from the factory to your dealership, and to you as a customer. This is something you should ask your dealer about.
Anyway you shouldn’t worry that much about this. A double digit number of driven km would hardly make any difference to your engine’s lifespan.
Your piston rings will have enaugh amount of time to seal under your own driving.
Engine has already run in the factory for a specific amount of time and in specific conditions. It’s an essential part of the quality control procedure of any product like this.
Now as for the distance driven from the factory to your dealership, and to you as a customer. This is something you should ask your dealer about.
Anyway you shouldn’t worry that much about this. A double digit number of driven km would hardly make any difference to your engine’s lifespan.
Your piston rings will have enaugh amount of time to seal under your own driving.
There are many idiotic drivers out there. But keep in mind that there is no way you can “give a lesson” to any of them.
Most of the times you can’t do it even even if you try doing it in a polite manner… let alone insulting…
Turning around to ask WTF is the wrong thing to do in situations like that.
The best that can happen, is scaring a driver who might accidentally didn’t pay much attention at his car’s blind spots. Many people respond to fear by doing foolish things. This could be dangerous…
Many bickers don’t understand that because most bikes have superior acceleration comparing to cars, sometimes they move unpredictably fast so car drivers are not always able to predict their position. This might not be relevant with your case but it is something you must have in mind when approaching another vehicles.
Now considering the worst case scenario, by chasing someone who did something criminally dangerous seconds before, you run the risk meeting a… lets say mentally ill person or some kind of mean person you don’t know how exactly is going to react.
This is dangerous.
Protect yourself by trying to predict other vehicles moves. Be predictable
Avoid as much as possible moving side by side with any car, or passing it close while moving at much higher speed.
Learn to control your anger.
Most of the times you can’t do it even even if you try doing it in a polite manner… let alone insulting…
Turning around to ask WTF is the wrong thing to do in situations like that.
The best that can happen, is scaring a driver who might accidentally didn’t pay much attention at his car’s blind spots. Many people respond to fear by doing foolish things. This could be dangerous…
Many bickers don’t understand that because most bikes have superior acceleration comparing to cars, sometimes they move unpredictably fast so car drivers are not always able to predict their position. This might not be relevant with your case but it is something you must have in mind when approaching another vehicles.
Now considering the worst case scenario, by chasing someone who did something criminally dangerous seconds before, you run the risk meeting a… lets say mentally ill person or some kind of mean person you don’t know how exactly is going to react.
This is dangerous.
Protect yourself by trying to predict other vehicles moves. Be predictable
Avoid as much as possible moving side by side with any car, or passing it close while moving at much higher speed.
Learn to control your anger.
Well. I love seeing tires working but even I, found this video a bit boring 
I think you have already done way better vids than this. (I have kept them at my hard drive) eg “who cares”
One rule of thumb for me. If it’s going to be in slow motion, it has to be silk smooth, especially when the whole movie is in slow motion at exactly the same pace.
Scenes seem to be repeated even thought they aren’t. That’s because of cameras with similar positioning and FOV are used again and again.
Well anyway I see some nice driving there and I can sense the artistic mood but that’s because I can imagine a lot of things that this movie didn’t show me.
I think you have already done way better vids than this. (I have kept them at my hard drive) eg “who cares”
One rule of thumb for me. If it’s going to be in slow motion, it has to be silk smooth, especially when the whole movie is in slow motion at exactly the same pace.
Scenes seem to be repeated even thought they aren’t. That’s because of cameras with similar positioning and FOV are used again and again.
Well anyway I see some nice driving there and I can sense the artistic mood but that’s because I can imagine a lot of things that this movie didn’t show me.
and another curb rollover crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page
This is a nice video archive to refer to every time someone claims that flipping a car, because of inside tires climbing a curb, is unrealistic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page
This is a nice video archive to refer to every time someone claims that flipping a car, because of inside tires climbing a curb, is unrealistic.
This isn't going to happen in any sim anytime soon... such a physics model, specialized only for the engine is extremely complicated.
"Drown by hand" power cuerves, imitating or copying similar power curves from similar real engines, would be enough for any sim released in the following decade.
One of the difficulties, would be part throttle power oughtput. But anyway any model based on data gathered from real dynos would be much easier to implement.
"Drown by hand" power cuerves, imitating or copying similar power curves from similar real engines, would be enough for any sim released in the following decade.
One of the difficulties, would be part throttle power oughtput. But anyway any model based on data gathered from real dynos would be much easier to implement.
Well I find anything close to +/-50rpm (maby sometimes +/-100rpm if the powerband is wide enaugh) from the spesified rpm in LFS, ok
as for the power curves they do matter if you need them for gear spacing, unless you have bionic brain and you can imagine them just by looking the torque graphs.
as for the power curves they do matter if you need them for gear spacing, unless you have bionic brain and you can imagine them just by looking the torque graphs.
Last edited by kaynd, .
You did all the hard work extracting those torque curves and didn’t plot some easy power graphs. Why?
Anyway I added some quick HP curve graphs in case someone is too lazy to do it on its own.
(I hope you don’t mind)
http://www.box.net/shared/b7sb9odgk1
they look very similar to what is already implemented in Bob’s VHPA. Anyway excel graphs are much more manageable when you want to carefully observe graphs.
Nice work
(woops now I saw pik_d post.
this google docs online aplication looks nice)
Anyway I added some quick HP curve graphs in case someone is too lazy to do it on its own.
(I hope you don’t mind)http://www.box.net/shared/b7sb9odgk1
they look very similar to what is already implemented in Bob’s VHPA. Anyway excel graphs are much more manageable when you want to carefully observe graphs.
Nice work
(woops now I saw pik_d post.
this google docs online aplication looks nice)
Last edited by kaynd, .
please finish this movie . It's a great idea but it realy gets spoiled at the end.
. It's a great idea but it realy gets spoiled at the end.For some short posts have a look here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=845412#post845412
in details.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=27176#post27176
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539452#post539452
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539489#post539489
It's not focused only in LFS but they will help you get a picture.
Reading the hole threads is recomended.
in details.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=27176#post27176
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539452#post539452
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539489#post539489
It's not focused only in LFS but they will help you get a picture.
Reading the hole threads is recomended.
bahhh overanalyzing it spoils the fun He is talking about my obvius addition to the photo.
He is talking about my obvius addition to the photo.
yeah I think it's impossible to not spot the face now
Don't spend your money on large TN panels.
As they grow larger and larger, the sily viewing angle problem gets more and more profound...
It is so obvius that even moving your head a few cm up-down, makes an annoying difference in colour gamma.
As they grow larger and larger, the sily viewing angle problem gets more and more profound...
It is so obvius that even moving your head a few cm up-down, makes an annoying difference in colour gamma.
As I see you aim for the highest amount of suspension travel which is in the right direction but is only one part of what you need.
The other part is suspension movement. You need just enough stiffness so the suspension will only just not bottom out after a big jump. You have to use all that suspension travel to absorb that momentum the car's weight produces against the ground when falling.
If your suspension is too hard, so it's not far from hitting the bump stops right away, talking about damage after the impact.
But anyway keep in mind that no setup will make your car indestructible, I am talking about how to have less damage.
It is usual in many layouts with obstacles, eg when hitting ramps with not the right angle, you end up with almost immediately destroyed suspension. There is no setup that can prevent that.
I have attached the setup you gave with some changes to give an example.
[edit] added improved soft2 setup. Less damage for high speed jumps
The other part is suspension movement. You need just enough stiffness so the suspension will only just not bottom out after a big jump. You have to use all that suspension travel to absorb that momentum the car's weight produces against the ground when falling.
If your suspension is too hard, so it's not far from hitting the bump stops right away, talking about damage after the impact.
But anyway keep in mind that no setup will make your car indestructible, I am talking about how to have less damage.
It is usual in many layouts with obstacles, eg when hitting ramps with not the right angle, you end up with almost immediately destroyed suspension. There is no setup that can prevent that.
I have attached the setup you gave with some changes to give an example.
[edit] added improved soft2 setup. Less damage for high speed jumps
Last edited by kaynd, .
I was not trying to reproduce the effect; I did try to give you a basic understanding on what it is causing it.
In ky oval I am just sitting there stationary trying to give an example of how tire loads are affected when crossing the point where the "bank" meets the flat road.
At that specific part of FE there is a similar "bank" just with a smaller camber angle, producing the same effects. It's just harder to spot in screenshots.
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427
You are going the wrong way if you just add Newton. This applies only when sitting still an doing nothing.
When moving and hitting small sharp bumps that force the vehicle's mass to accelerate instantly on it's vertical axis, it's an other story... you have short bursts of forces way higher than the actual weight of the car.
We are talking about moving mass that contains some kinetic energy here, having some inertia.. etc. The sky is the limit when something tries to absorb that energy.
Especially when there are not that many things absorbing energy in a clinical simulated environment. (only tyres and dampers, no chasis-suspention components flex).
If you hit the bump stops, meaning that the dampers can not absorb anymore energy, then it is normal getting some pretty nasty peak forces...
If you pay attention to your replay in forces view, attend the car from the follow camera so you can see all four tire loads, you will spot many places when your suspension bottoms out on bumps (force bar goes red).
(Talking about the replay you have uploaded)
In ky oval I am just sitting there stationary trying to give an example of how tire loads are affected when crossing the point where the "bank" meets the flat road.
At that specific part of FE there is a similar "bank" just with a smaller camber angle, producing the same effects. It's just harder to spot in screenshots.
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427
You are going the wrong way if you just add Newton. This applies only when sitting still an doing nothing.
When moving and hitting small sharp bumps that force the vehicle's mass to accelerate instantly on it's vertical axis, it's an other story... you have short bursts of forces way higher than the actual weight of the car.
We are talking about moving mass that contains some kinetic energy here, having some inertia.. etc. The sky is the limit when something tries to absorb that energy.
Especially when there are not that many things absorbing energy in a clinical simulated environment. (only tyres and dampers, no chasis-suspention components flex).
If you hit the bump stops, meaning that the dampers can not absorb anymore energy, then it is normal getting some pretty nasty peak forces...
If you pay attention to your replay in forces view, attend the car from the follow camera so you can see all four tire loads, you will spot many places when your suspension bottoms out on bumps (force bar goes red).
(Talking about the replay you have uploaded)
Last edited by kaynd, .
The wall on the first video is really close to the road so there is not enough room for the car to reduce it's speed while sliding and also the area of contact was too small at that specific spot because the wall had an opening there with the edge of it almost facing the direction of the track.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG