What would you guys go for out of a BMW E36 316i coupe and a Audi A4 1.9 TDI?

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

There expensive cars to buy. If you have the money to do it, then fine. Otherwise, i would just buy a cheap banger like a fiesta 1.1 as your going to be bumping into things from time to time.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1086760.htm - Cheapest A3 1.9 TDi i found on PH.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/993130.htm - Cheapest A4 1.9 TDi i found on PH. Cheap, but looks like a shed.

I can buy an Audi that needs work doing to the engine, by Dad knows diesel engines like the back of his hand as the saying goes as he is self taugh diesel fitter. Plus he knows the 1.9 TDI A3/A4 engines well as he started to fix them and sell them on

hmm, how does the A4 look like a shed to you? The rubstrips on the bottom of the doors look to have taken a beating, but thats why they are there - to protect the doors. That spoiler would have to go though :L

I forgot about the A3s price tag lol, A4 is the best bet out of the two I think.

The A4 I looked at, was the white A4 just down from the one you linked to, all I could see wrong with the white one was that the bumper needed sorting out, look as if it had filler on both sides :S

Hmm, just thought of two other cars, just done a quote on both and are £1,900 a yr to insure, these 2 cars are a Audi A3 1.9TDI or a Audi A4 1.9 TDI.

What do you guys think about those two options.

Yes, I know prices are going to change, but if I get ideas months before hand, at least I know what choices I have when I go to get my first car

Quote from Bawbag :

I know what it is, but what i'm saying is, remapping the car can be done by plugging the VAGcom in and changing values, perhaps someone without a clue has tried this. I'm not really sure but i'm guessing that you either get the car re-mapped, or plug in an ECU chip, as they both achieve the same thing from the engine?

If not, ignore this.

The ECU hasn't been touched to remap it in the past.
It has a box like this: http://www.ptronic.com/ptronic/images/boitiers/7.jpg
A box with two leads running out of it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

My MX-5 can go 1,000,000 miles on a tank. Or it would if I fitted a bigger tank. See why your comment about range equating economy is silly?

I can see your point, yes. The Audi A4 we have has a 62L tank.

Quote from Bawbag :

As for the audi getting better MPG, work out how many miles to the gallon it gets in comparison to what it should get (Check parkers) because you might find someone without a clue has allready tried to remap it with a VAGcom and done it wrong.

A VAGcom hasn't touched it for tuning. It's a tuning box that plugs into the ECU and stays plugged in, if you unplug it, the car is no longer chipped.

It is very good on fuel, like most Audi's are including the A8 W12 which Jeremy Clarkson I think got something like 800miles out of the tank.

I may go and buy a pot noodle now lol.

Oh, Chicken and Mushroom or Curry.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

But do you still see my point though? Prices are going to change by that time, so its poitless dreaming about what car you wanna buy and mods you want to do when your not even close to getting it yet.

I know prices will change lol, I didn't come off of the banana boat yesterday.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

LOL!

@ Sam, i take it back. Dont do research, instead, wait. You've still got until feb' next year if i remember rightly, so it'll be around march/april until you manage to get your licence. So, you should just wait until a couple months before then until coming back here. By that time, the insurance prices will go up/down, car prices will change, fuel cost's will change etc. It will change all your ideas and plans.

I am hopefully going to be doing the intense driving course which is a week to 2 weeks long I think. Will do my theory this year though. So should hopefully have passed by the end of February, can't guarantee it though.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The only chips you need to buy will come from Ebuyer (or similar) or a fish and chip shop. The only mapping you need is an AA Road Atlas. As mentioned before, turbo diesels can benefit, in performance terms, from chipping/mapping, but you lose out elsewhere (economy, emissions, engine life etc). But as diesels are pathetically weak anyway, it's not asking much to improve them

Chipping a TD doesn't make the fuel economy worse, on my Dads it seems to have made it better, can do like 700miles on a tank, we went from Scotland to Plymouth on 3/4 of a tank of fuel.

All tuning shortens engine life though.

Diesels I think are catching up with Petrols performance wise. Diesels are good for torque though

Quote from tristancliffe :

Part of my work has always been fixing the work of people/companies with experience over ability. 20 years experience is worth nothing if it's 20 years of wrong experience.

One of the tuners knows what he is doing, deffently.

Could you give me some topics to research please?

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, I only build, tune, setup and run my own engines and cars, as part of my career and as a hobby in the evenings/weekends. Been doing it for a while, and done a few years in motorsport (not including my 'career' as a driver either) preparation.

I would never trust a pair of clippers to be improved at a company called "Street Stylers Southwest", let alone my primary car.

I am not saying that you don't know what you are doing, but there are 2 tuners in Plymouth that have a lot more years experience then you, over 20yrs experience. So they will have more experience then you and knowledge. Yes, you're a mechanical engineer so you do know about tuning.

Why not point me in the right direction to research about, give me the topics to research about and I will start.

Street Stylers Southwest isn't a company, it's a club, and there are mechanical engineers in the club, so there are people in the club who know what they are doing.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

And neither will it put the power down if you can't drive it..........

And it's a posh club for chavs, be honest.

Like I said you can call me a chav, I don't care, I'm me. I told you, when you come down, I will show you some of the shit cars going around Plymouth and the nice ones :P

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

That's how come most of the "SSS" members are driving around in 1.2 Saxo's, with silly body kits and Neon Lights, but their standard engines (apart from a K&N air filter) are somehow magically producing 23594574bhp?! The magic of those tuning shops, Sam!

You don't even have a driving licence yet Sam, why are you even thinking about things like this... times change and in a year when you can afford to take your test and then buy a car, things change... unless you still want to spend £6,000 on a number plate. :rolleyes:

Lol, I said £6k on a number plate is ridiculous lol.

A lot of the young members on SSS have 1.2s but then they move to cars over 2litres. There are people on there with 200SX's, E55 AMG tuned, R32/3/4 Skylines, a guy is on there with a lambo, BMW M3 E46. There are loads of powerful cars on there. It is a car enthusiast club.

I know tuning is expensive, a car that is set up perfectly will be quick, bhp isn't everything I know. If your car has 500bhp but the car can't put the power down, it's useless, I know that.

Guys, what do you think I should start researching?

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Tristan is right though Sam..

It's because you're in SWSC or whatever the acronym is.. it's all just pointless "turning" that accomplishes nothing more than the ability to say what you've done it, you get no gain.... especially on your first car, you want something CHEAP TO BUY, RELIABLE and INEXPENSIVE TO RUN AND INSURE.

Tristan does his own spannering though? I think he knows more about REAL tuning than some man in a T-shirt and a GReddy baseball hat who says to bolt on the biggest Turbocharger he sells..

It's Street Stylers Southwest - SSS.

I doubt Tristan does, these are good tuners, set cars up correctly and will tell you what else really needs to be done to get the most out of the mods, they just don't tell you to put the biggest turbo on there they have lol.

It's a 1.6 yes, but people tune 1.4s lol. I said I would like to, doesn't mean I am going to go ahead with it, will most likely wait until I have a car with an engine over 2 litres and producing at least over 150bhp before tuning.

Quote from tristancliffe :

If ignorant people want to spend their money on pointless remaps or exhausts then they can. If you are born a total tool, better to be a happy total tool.

Oh, and I've never driven without declaring modificationss. This is mostly due to the fact that I don't waste my money on modifications, but also partly because I'm honest, and wouldn't want to contribute to the high insurance premiums young people already face.

And now the 'brains' of Britain joins in lol.

Don't they say one of the best ways to learn is from your mistakes!

Before I carry out any modifications to the engine, I will be talking to a few engine tuners first, who will know a lot more about tuning engines then you Tristan. There are two big engine tuners in Plymouth who has years of experience tuning engines and running cars in motorsport so I should think they'll be able to tell me what increases in power I should be seeing and if it's worth it.

Quote from Bawbag :

I've been in a few takeaway cars and they smell disgusting, a few of my mates used to do it aswell and they eventually stopped because of how bad it made their car smell.

Yea, I don't mean for all cars, I just mean in general some people have had problems with them (rough idleing etc) and yea, remaps i've saw are about 250-350, which if you've got a gttdi 150 then it's gunna be worth it.

All this talk about cars, turbos and re maps has got me annoyed that I went back to college, coz now i'm stuck with the 75bhp turdwagon.

Lol.

I know people who have delivered for years and don't have a problem with the car stinking. I suppose if you keep the car well ventaled the smell should go out, or just put it in the boot of the car lol.

Quote from Bawbag :

From what I can see the tuning box has the same effect as the remap, but less stable.

Regardless, I wouldn't waste any of your money doing the things you would like to, especcially if your gunna be delivering takeaway food, the cars gunna smell like a busted onion.

Lol, deliverying for chinese doesn't actually make the car smell, I will be cleaning it every week though lol.

The tuning boxes can't be that unstable, it hasn't caused the Audi one problem. They cost about the same as a remap though - £400+

Quote from Bawbag :

Re mapping non turbo cars is pretty pointless when you consider how much it costs to remap your car to how much gain you get from it.

Remapping a 1.4 16v golf adds about 4bhp. Full stainless steel exhaust system and induction kit (this guy spent about 500 euros on this) and it added 6bhp. So yea, I doubt the 1.6 is gunna be much differnt.

Who cares what it sends his premium, spending all that money on a car worth under 1500 quid is like buying a chocolate teapot.

Oh yea, forgot to add, remapping a 1.9tdi golf adds about 40bhp, so it's no wonder that the audi feels a lot faster, because it really only benefits turbo cars.

I wouldn't mind doing it I said, doubt I will, most likely keep the engine standard. The Audi's ECU hasn't been remapped in such of having a PC plugged into it etc... It's had a tuning box put on it, just plugs into the ECU I think - Improves fuel mpg, torque and horsepower, think they say it's something like a 30% increase.

I think the best thing to do is, when I get the car is go down to a tuning place and ask them what increases in power I should be getting from the mods.

Last edited by sam93, Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:16.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

Of course your going to notice it more in a 1.9 turbo diesel! Its a bigger engine, and ultilise's a turbo. The VAG diesels take very well to a remap anyhow, but comparing it to a weedy 1.6 is pointless. Yes, i know my advice is'nt going to make a difference to your decision...ill just wait for you to post here once you'ce had it done, wondering why you have spent hundreds of pounds to get a remap yet have'nt got much more performance.

Lol, a bit more grunt it all I want, I'm not looking for a massive noticeable difference. Like I said, I may not get it done yet.

This is what I wouldn't mind doing.
4-2-1 Manifold
Full Milltek exhaust
Chip
Remap
Sports intake (People say they are pointless?)

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

But thats the thing, your really not gonna notice a difference in something as small as a 1.6, especially when its just a road car. Remaps are expensive to get done properly. Save your money and put it towards a nicer car for when your older.

oh, and if you did'nt declare the modification, that would make you no better than foilpact, even if the said modification is less significant. You will still be driving around with no insurance.

Yes I know you should not drive around unless you have all mods declared. I bet not one person on here as at least one thing that has been put on the car since it left the factory and they haven't declared it to their insurance company.

We have a car that has been chipped (1.9 TDI A4) and you can notice the difference in that, just can feel it pull a lot better.

Really though, it's may choice and business what I have done to the car, if I want it done, I'll get it done :P

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

Sam, you just criticised foilpact for not declaring mods, yet you want to do the same? :doh:

If you get the car remapped or chipped, they can find out. I cant remember the proper name of the computer they use (its not a data scanner as someone said a few pages back. Thats for looking for any electronical faults, not changes.) but they plug it into the ECU and it will notify them of any changes made to the map, and the date. If this date is before you took the policy out and bought the car, then your fine as you would'nt have known. If its at any period while you had the insurance policy or owned the car, then your insurance will be invalid and you would be left with a big headache. Its really not worth the hassle sam. I would'nt really reccomend re-mapping something like a 1.6 E36 as your really not going to notice a difference in performance, so its a waste of money.

I know its kinda pointless me saying this, as i know your just gonna tell me to "F OFF" and do it anyway, but seriously, save your money. Try to be patient. The money you save from NOT doing a remap can go towards a nicer car for yourself in a year or two. Them couple of years will fly by.

@ foilpact, you just dont get it do you? I could'nt give a damn whether you was on the road for 2 hours, your still on a PUBLIC road without insurance. And i sincerely doubt you was on the road for just 2 hours. I just hope an ANPR camera picks you up and you get banned, as you deserve it imo.

I want to remap the car, doesn't mean it will go ahead. Oh, yeah I critised foilpack but there is a slight difference not declaring a remap and not declaring a whole engine that is bigger then the standard one lol. Yes, it's still makes the insurance void but I think not declaring the engine is a lot worse then not declaring a remap.

I know the car will have to be mapped properly, I'm not stupid lol.

Also, of course you'll notice the difference with a remap, the car will be creating more HP and torque, may be a minimal gain but I reckon you'll still notice it.

This is my plan really, get a 316i E36 until I am 19/20 then sell it and buy a E30 323 or 325 with the Mtech 2 kit on it. keep that for a year or two, sell it and buy a car to modify.

Quote from Foilpact :

Who u calling a dick you cock sucking rat cnut?... wtf should he not listen to? I was only telling about what happened to one of my cars years ago and the Corsa 2l was tongue in cheek ffs, It was that or a Skyline i was going to post... No need to get all on ur high horse about laws and morals, i didnt tell him to do one or the other... Also about pushing up premiums.. Thats women drivers and young idiots faults not mine... Ive had 4 accidents in over 10 years of driving..... Once was my fault just after passing my test (young idiot).... the 3 other times were women driving like women and not looking where they were going... Having 9 years no claims doesnt push premiums up....

So is pearcy in Nathans dick and dork boat for using mods without insurance's knowledge years ago too?

EDIT: Also, i mean idiot drivers that are young, not young drivers are idiots....

You're obviously an idiot driver for driving around in a car that had a bigger engine in then what was declared.

Oh and another thing, not all woman are bad drivers, I bet I know a few woman who could drive better then you. Both genders have bad drivers, its not just the one gender!

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I am going to be declaring all the mods done to my car, I checked last night when I did a quote to see if my premium will be pushed up any if it had the Mtech kit on it, and it remained the same, so I will declare it.

If I have my ECU chipped and remapped I highly doubt the insurance would find out about that, so I think that it's a mod that doesn't really need to be declared.

I wont be driving my car like a dick on a public highway anyway, I want to build up NCB to bring my premium down. Not drive like a dick and my insurance go up tenfold lol.

Quote from rediske :

Famous actor dies of swine flu!



Guess who infected him...

Miss Piggy.

Quote from The General Lee :

Try and get one that is 1997-1999 because that is the facelift era, nothing much, different grille and side repeaters, but much better in my opinion.

Defo go down the route of Mtech kit and a decent set of BMW alloys. Also, if you can, get a coupe, they are much better looking.

I do really want the 1997 upwards, they seem to be like £1,500+ though lol, saying that is the ones that have under 100k miles. I like the Hartge kits really but they are bloody expensive, their split rims are lovely lol.

Coupes are the better looking ones deffently and the Mtech kit makes it a lot more nicer also.

Quote from The General Lee :

Strange. I've got a BMW and I'm a bouncer (read: Doorman), but the 11 year old girl thing is a no-no...far to old, anyway...

I still vote for the 316, you are looking at about £1000 for a decent one anyway, remember this is a 10+ year old car, £1000-£1500 is about right for a good one.

Tristan - How is BMW chav? To be honest, its very hard to buy a first car that isn't chav. Atleast he isn't thinking about going down the usual Saxo/106/Cosra route.



As a fairly new driver, I would say that £2k to insure a half decent car is the norm. I know about of first time drivers paying circa £2000 for insurance and I am in a much lower risk area than Sam. Amazingly, a BMW was cheaper for me to insure than something smaller.

Reliability - The E36 is fairly reliable. The build quality and quality of components are second to none. Things to look out for are rusty rear arches, overheating as the original water pumps had a bit of plastic in then that always broke, but the later ones come with a metal bit so they are more durable. Anyway, if anything is a miss, like someone said, they are simple to work on, I changed a PAS pump all on my tod in about 20 minutes with not a great deal of mechanical knowledge. There are tons of breakers around, as well as BMW specialists, there are also countless forums, a few even dedicated to the E36 itself.

Expensive road tax? It will cost no more than any 1.6 made before 2001.

Tyres? I had 225/45/17 on the front and 245/40/17 on the back, I used to get part worns at £25 each.

Fuel - They arent that bad on fuel so he won't have to worry about that. I for one and I'm sure Sam feels the same, I'd rather pay (and I did) that little bit extra here and there to drive a BMW than to pay a bit cheaper and driver a Pug 205 diesel.

You are speaking sense lol.

I am thinking of getting a 1995-1999 316i coupe. I did an insurance quote with Quinn last night and it came out as £1,760. I also done one with spoiler/bodykit/optional alloys as a lot of people seem to put the M-tech kit on it and the price was still the same lol, that is also paying monthly which I prefer then paying it in full.