You could use that technique to kill the slowest AIs after a certain amount of time and replace him with a clone of the best AIs.
After a couple of races you do that again, and again, and there you go, AI evolution in LFS.
I'm thinking about something like 5 10 minutes races with reversed order each restart (use a LAN-server to do that), automatically scoring the AIs using InSim and automatically swapping files. That way you breed AIs that can race quickly and pass nicely.
Scawen needs to make an InAI-Interface.
Vain
Do you still have the AI1-11 knowledge-files from the old AIs? I think they should still be there, so your driving-heroes aren't lost. I think the folder is called data/knw or something along those lines.
Vain
Vain
I believe it has to do with the checkpoints for speed-measuring.
Imagin a corner where right after the apex the AI checks how quick it was in the last couple of corners. Each time the AI gets a too high corner-entry speed it scores a better time than it would when driving sensibly.
It writes down "I was quicker when instead of braking I just powered into the 90° bend!" and repeats that in the next lap because it looks like a good idea to go faster. Of course it is very unhappy that in the next corner it's times went down a lot from the crashing, but there is no mechanism to connect the two experiences.
Basically, there are some combination the AI just fails at. You can make the AI a set to avoid such things, but it'll never work well.
Vain
Imagin a corner where right after the apex the AI checks how quick it was in the last couple of corners. Each time the AI gets a too high corner-entry speed it scores a better time than it would when driving sensibly.
It writes down "I was quicker when instead of braking I just powered into the 90° bend!" and repeats that in the next lap because it looks like a good idea to go faster. Of course it is very unhappy that in the next corner it's times went down a lot from the crashing, but there is no mechanism to connect the two experiences.
Basically, there are some combination the AI just fails at. You can make the AI a set to avoid such things, but it'll never work well.
Vain
Well, that's because they do something incredibly stupid every race!
Vain
I know you said something about improved camera handling and I know about cinematographic trends these days, but is it supposed to be like this?
That happens with an Intel 915GM chip.
Live For SM works great though. Except for the fact that positional audio is influenced by the absolute position of the car relative to (0,0).
Well done so far.
Though for some reason I expected LFSM to have skidmarks. Silly me...
Vain
That happens with an Intel 915GM chip.
Live For SM works great though. Except for the fact that positional audio is influenced by the absolute position of the car relative to (0,0).
Well done so far.
Though for some reason I expected LFSM to have skidmarks. Silly me...
Vain
@Passing:
Set the AIs up with your 11 driving heros and one bad-setup-FXR on Fe Club and let them do some passing-practice.
They'll learn that "My position = his position => bad" and that "My position = his position + 0.5*FXRwidth + 0.5*FOXwidth = good". Fiddle with the FXR's gearbox to make it slow so it gets passed a lot. Use the FXR or any other wide car as the obstacle. If they practice passing the UF1 they'll be caught by surprise when they notice that other cars aren't as slim. Use a small track to practice passing so there's lots of lapping going on.
The AI drives a very strange line on some tracks. They need a setup that suits that line. My attempt at LX4/BL1 utterly failed because with my set they always oversteer out of the chicane, hitting the curbs and losing several seconds on the straight.
Also:
- The AIs always use the same line, even for reversed configs. So those won't ever work.
- The AIs aren't aware of downforce-issues and drafting. So don't ever expect the AIs to battle for positions in DF-cars.
- The AIs don't know about tyre heat. Try using cars that are easy on the tyres for best results. -> RB4
- Practicing passing on AIs is great for your driving style. You learn to keep your distance and to stay behind the AI-obstacle for several corners without touching it. It generally teaches you good manners. :go:
@al heeley: Each lap the AIs learn "This was too quick!" or "I can still go quicker there!". So after some laps with well heated tyres they find the limit and stay there. After a restart they try to go just as quick as with heated tyres because they don't realize that the good speeds were just down to tyre heat, which obviously causes havoc.
Vain
Set the AIs up with your 11 driving heros and one bad-setup-FXR on Fe Club and let them do some passing-practice.
They'll learn that "My position = his position => bad" and that "My position = his position + 0.5*FXRwidth + 0.5*FOXwidth = good". Fiddle with the FXR's gearbox to make it slow so it gets passed a lot. Use the FXR or any other wide car as the obstacle. If they practice passing the UF1 they'll be caught by surprise when they notice that other cars aren't as slim. Use a small track to practice passing so there's lots of lapping going on.
The AI drives a very strange line on some tracks. They need a setup that suits that line. My attempt at LX4/BL1 utterly failed because with my set they always oversteer out of the chicane, hitting the curbs and losing several seconds on the straight.
Also:
- The AIs always use the same line, even for reversed configs. So those won't ever work.
- The AIs aren't aware of downforce-issues and drafting. So don't ever expect the AIs to battle for positions in DF-cars.
- The AIs don't know about tyre heat. Try using cars that are easy on the tyres for best results. -> RB4
- Practicing passing on AIs is great for your driving style. You learn to keep your distance and to stay behind the AI-obstacle for several corners without touching it. It generally teaches you good manners. :go:
@al heeley: Each lap the AIs learn "This was too quick!" or "I can still go quicker there!". So after some laps with well heated tyres they find the limit and stay there. After a restart they try to go just as quick as with heated tyres because they don't realize that the good speeds were just down to tyre heat, which obviously causes havoc.
Vain
Last edited by Vain, .
I don't think it's contradictory at all. It just implies that LFS is no serious racing simulator, which is true.
Right now LFS compares very well to CounterStrike. Oh no, CS is more realistic, it doesn't allow you to respawn until next round.
Vain
This is not a 'We want better analogue dials because they are the superior measuring system'-discussion, so the point 'digital speedos are more precise' is like saying everyone should use the BF1, because if you want to race it's the quickest car.
I am fully aware that a digital speedo is more precise. But I don't want a digital speedo. I want a properly readable analogue speedo.
Vain
And in other languages it's difficult to distinct some gerunds from verbs, because they are both not capitalized.
Names tend to be a lot more unique than gerunds, which are often identical with some forms of the verb. So I think capitalizing all nouns is the better trade-off.
However, such comparisons of structures don't work, because the use of the language is formed around the structure. So if you think a foreign language has a certain drawback you're just not using it right.
Vain
Names tend to be a lot more unique than gerunds, which are often identical with some forms of the verb. So I think capitalizing all nouns is the better trade-off.
However, such comparisons of structures don't work, because the use of the language is formed around the structure. So if you think a foreign language has a certain drawback you're just not using it right.
Vain
Last edited by Vain, .
I always chuckle when some one says "Oh no, the Ring wouldn't be fun, it's actually a bad track. No one would drive it."
Why? Because people drive on that track in real life. And they spend money for it. A lot of it. Just to drive there. Not to race, just to drive. 'Hotlapping', if you will.
Oh, and saying that racing is impossible is also a great statement. After all the Ring hosts a 24h race. 'Overtaking is impossible!' ... Right....
Vain
I'd support that.
Although I liked the idea "alternative means of transportation" - that'd leave a lot room for funny stuff.
Vain
Paint one on your wrist and take a picture of it.
The avatars are supposed to be creative or funny, so there can be no excuse except "I'm uncreative!".
Vain
I'm sad the thread is closed. The googling was just starting to be fun.
Mr. Vain
Mr. Vain
Preload keeps the diff locked during no-power-no-brakes situations. Currently, when you approach a corner with no acceleration you are driving a open diff. The car was set up considering that the locking of the diff creates understeer. This understeer is gone in such situations. The car is oversteery. In real life it wouldn't be.
In LFS everyone started to 'stabilize the car on the throttle' by pushing the throttle to ~20-40%. That's a basic LFS-technique to lock the diff in all situations where you want to increase grip on the rear. In real life you'd decrease grip this way.
It's of no importance on Aston National. It only matters where you enter difficult corner-combinations when few acceleration/deceleration is required.
Vain
Just look at the diff and you know it's way off.
In that sense all LFS cars are unreal, but on the BF1 it's most apparent, because a real F1 car has a very sophisticated diff.
Oh, and our TC is way off too of course. I don't even have to mention aero.
Edit @ Testpatchthread:
I think Scawen knows very well that LFS is far away from being completed and that there is a long way to go. He is one of the persons who decide which way to go to 'LFS 1.0 final'. Of course other people will have different priorities along this way than Scawen does, and they will lay down their opinions and reasons for those. Why that is worth a 'this makes me sad'-post is beyond me!
Scawen wants to spend his time on InSim, I would have spent my time on differentials. No reason to go all
.Vain
Last edited by Vain, .
I used the opportunity to do a few laps in the RAC.
1. I thought it was too soft and thus didn't react swiftly enough (BL GP).
2. I pretty often locked up the right front. Brake bias wasn't good - it took longer to brake and was more difficult to do properly than with a random WR set.
3. The diff wasted a lot of power out of tight corners by spinning the inside wheel. I could have used that power to accelerate.
4. Very unstable on no-power-no-brakes situations. -> Preload. Was better when I braked earlier and led the car into the corner on the power.
5. Nice handling off the limit, got worse the more I pushed.
...Which is contrary to typical WR sets. Those behave poorly if you're slow, but are nice and smooth as long as you push the tyres into high slip angles.
But thanks for giving me a reason to drive a few laps with the RAC.
Vain
1. I thought it was too soft and thus didn't react swiftly enough (BL GP).
2. I pretty often locked up the right front. Brake bias wasn't good - it took longer to brake and was more difficult to do properly than with a random WR set.
3. The diff wasted a lot of power out of tight corners by spinning the inside wheel. I could have used that power to accelerate.
4. Very unstable on no-power-no-brakes situations. -> Preload. Was better when I braked earlier and led the car into the corner on the power.
5. Nice handling off the limit, got worse the more I pushed.
...Which is contrary to typical WR sets. Those behave poorly if you're slow, but are nice and smooth as long as you push the tyres into high slip angles.
But thanks for giving me a reason to drive a few laps with the RAC.
Vain
Hint: Aston GT Reversed in the XRR.
And yes, Aston Historic is a great track for LRF-battles.
Vain
And yes, Aston Historic is a great track for LRF-battles.
Vain
That was the Südschleife. The Nordschleife's less known brother. It was considerably smaller and located just south of it (they shared the start/finish straight), so still in the same area with it's challanging elevation changes. There were a few big races on it, but the track was later destroyed in favor of the new Nürburgring Grand Prix track.
Vain
Vain
Only if the STCC reduced the quality of the show to MoE-levels.
Vain
I was well entertained by Murray going "Look at this!! This is unbelievable!!!" as soon as two cars appeared on the same screen.
Vain
Vain
I like it. "LOL" is a perfect "disregard this, I have no clue"-indicator. It saves you time because you can skip posts immediately so you can concentrate on the useful ones.
Vain
I use a blank numberplate.
(Unless I forgot to clear it after an STCC event.)
The cars just look a lot better with a blank numberplate.
Vain
(Unless I forgot to clear it after an STCC event.)
The cars just look a lot better with a blank numberplate.
Vain
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG