Quote from ciph :

Lag is a common term used to describe a symptom often encountered in computing and especially networked systems, where results of actions appear much later than expected.

And that is EXACTLY what we have been talking about. The animation would happen much later than expected.

Or said another way. The animation would lag behind the action.

Care to dig yourself any deeper.

:munching_

How about this one

Quote from ciph :

Woz, you dont get what the definition Game means. Did you ever think about that what you say cant be done without any other Controllers arround you? Why will be there a difference if you simply add an animation or leave it like it is? Its just an animation wich will be called after the Button CallBack event.

WE KNOW THAT. sigh

If you are a developer LOOK at the timeline I posted. If you FAIL to understand the timeline you are NOT a developer. It is a state diagram between 2 "threads" that are in different domains.

Quote from ciph :

And i say congrats about Assembly Level, i did assembly on the old Amiga so dont tell me shit i know already.

I didnt tell you anything apart from "this monkey" knows how to use a computer. You appeared to believe you are the ONLY one that understand computers so I just had to slap that down lol

Quote from ciph :

You just know how to start your mouth and start talking shit that is totally unnecessary for anyone. Adding an Animation != Slowing down an event (Maybe you understand that?)

NOBODY has ever said the animation will slow down anything.

Take a deep breath because once again you show a complete LACK of understanding about what we are even talking about.

Quote from ciph :

Since i wont add now Code snippet to proof that the most here are wrong you can keep believing whatever you wish to, for my part im done........

We dont want a code snippet. It would be pointless. We just want to know how you stop the animation playing AFTER I have completed the gear change movements MYSELF.

The trouble is you have gut hung up on the word LAG and assumed it means something OTHER than what we are talking about. Look at the context because the mechanical side of things is simple, a control action happens which triggers an animation.

What we are ACTUALLY talking about is that the animation will NOT play until AFTER the gear has changed.

There will be a DELAY (replacement word for lag in this situation) between ME changing gear using MY H shifter and the virtual driver changing gear. The virtual driver will not change gear until the gear HAS ALREADY BEEN CHANGED.

Is it really that hard to comprehend. It MUST be because EVERYONE else in this thread understands EXACTLY what we are talking about apart from YOU!

Last edited by Woz, Wed 13 Feb 2008, 05:59.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

FFS! cheers guys now im addicted to hotlapping, got beat by daveWS for BF1 so i got the FOX instead been up all night trying to beat it Had to say something.

Did the circle of grip thing help at all?

Quote from ciph :

Pointless in explaining here.. so i will stop because i see no sense of teaching monkeys using a computer.

You are just trying to back out now you have seen my timeline and realised you were WRONG!

BTW, this monkey is a software developer that started writing software in 1980. I have worked on commercial grade flight sims (military and comercial) and in places like Reuters on security etc. I not only know how to use a computer I also know how to tell it to do stuff down to assembly code level.

So COME ON THEN, explain why there will be no "lag" between my hand and that of the driver. You can get as technical as you need, I WILL UNDERSTAND YOU

EXACTLY HOW WILL YOU SYNC MY HAND MOVEMENTS TO THE VIRTUAL DRIVERS. (Please look at the timeline again first BTW)

This should be so funny

Last edited by Woz, Wed 13 Feb 2008, 05:26.

Quote from ciph :

No game is supposed to see if you move your hands. Its also called reaction time and not any weridness of lag. If you press a key windows dont know you are starting to press it it only knows when you pressed it fully <- Same shit.

And this "LAG" will not happen if your reaction is good to change a gear, and real drivers usually let their hands on the Gear controller.

I dont see why it shouldnt be possible... Anyone else who says something different lacks of informations, i worked once as a Game Dev i know what im talking about.

You just DO NOT understand what we are talking about do you lol

Let me try this...


This is the "lag" people are talking about. If you fail to understand it now I have NO IDEA how to make you see lol

We mean that by the time the annimation has played the action has already happened. Looks like your life as a game dev and developer taught you nothing

Last edited by Woz, Wed 13 Feb 2008, 05:28. Reason : Added (trigger point) to help ciph understand

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Woz, it's simple. We need a few strategically placed cameras around our room, that are looking for little white motion capture balls that are placed on our skin tight suit, then LFS can interpret this data, and animate us scratching our balls or shifting.

We could even have proper leg animation, facial expressions, head turning. It's easy as breaking through the Earths "Liquid Hot Magma" and then we're going for gold.

Wow you have solved it. Beats my other idea of setting my PC clock forwards 1 second, the time to move my hand from the wheel to shifter, in a hope that the PC would be on different time to me and hence solve the lag that way. It would be on future time compared to me and so would look like it predicted when I shifted.

Unfortunatly that technique has failed to work, no matter how much I change my PCs time settings

Quote from ciph :

Why does everyone say animations lag? That some kind of dumbness people spread..

Explain this then lol

So I am sat at my wheel. I move my had to the shifter. Change gear and while my hand is moving back to the wheel the LFS drivers hand will be moving TO the gearstick to change it.

How does LFS know I am moving my hand to the stick. Think about what you are talking about before you post lol

LFS does not know that you are going to change gear, it just knows when you HAVE changed gear. At that point it can trigger the annimation. This means as my hand move back to the wheel I would see the drivers hand moving TO the wheel.

Do you understand yet?

What could be done is that when you start to dip the clutch the animation to move the hand to the stick could start, this would minimise lag but then the drivers hand would move to the stick when you clutch kick and that would look daft.

Last edited by Woz, Wed 13 Feb 2008, 01:58.

That isssue highlighted in Race07 can be dealt with easy. When you are braking the animation would change slight to remain on the stick longer. Then when you bang down the gears the had would just stay on the stick.

Quote from Stefani24 :

my dad's car has more than 900° so its different, and its ok that lfs cars have 720°, but it would be cool too when there would be different numbers of degerees

The point being raised is that on the whole many cars have more than 900 degrees but as most home PC wheels have a max of 900 it makes sense to move the old 720 limit (Set before DFP even existed and most wheels were less than 360 degrees) and bump it to the logical 900 currently supported by DFP and G25

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

I thought understeer was when your actually into the corner and you either are going to fast or don't have enough front wing to make it back out.

Im not even getting into the corner before it feels bad. Thanks anyway G25 soon i hope and ill see what happens.

Now I see the problem. This might help, its called the circle of traction. Think of a circle where the inside represents grip and outside is where you have asked too much from the tyre in question. From the centre of the circle up is acceleration, down is braking and left and right when you turn in that direction.

You will notice that if you turn it limits the amount of acceleration or braking force the tyres can deal with before they give out. You have moved away from the centre line because you have appled turning forces. The more you turn the less you can brake or accelerate without losing grip and best acceleration or brakeing can be done in a straight line.

This circle changes size on each tyre as you use weight transfer to get the car to do what you want it to do. IRL its more an oval sort of shape but the principle holds out.

I found early on in sim racing it helps that I tried to think what I was asking of the tyres because I didnt have the other things like changes in G to tell me what was happening.

Driving a car fast on the edge is about balance. In reality you are contacted to the road by 4 small contact patches. You have to learn to manage what they can give you as best you can.

HTH

Last edited by Woz, Tue 12 Feb 2008, 20:01.

Quote from NanG :

in drifting they usually toughen the engine up too a large degree and the rev limiters are set higher - mad mikes probably one of the highest rev limits set in drifting with his triple rotor 10,000 rpm.

The engines in LFS are NOT designed to operate as you want, they are configured for race setups.

There is NO engine tuning in LFS to allow the engines to deal with what you ask. You yourself have agreed there is NO engine tuning.

WHY do you keep asking for it.

BTW: You do realise you ARE asking for engine tuning in an indirect way dont you by wanting what you ask for.

Quote from NanG :

i know a couple of guys who have race cars (1984 FB rx-7 and an r32 gtr) they have removed the rev limiter because they dont see the point of having it any more, there shift light is set too the optimum change and they never devert from it unless doing a massive burn out. the rev limiter for them they see as a waste of space

Good for them. When the have to rebuild their engines you can laugh at their costly mistake

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Yes but you see i use keyboard but i NEVER change the setup to suit me (steering lock etc). i always keep it how it is, thats how i like it and it suits me.

Steering lock is NOT what people are really talking about when they say setup. That is a TINY fraction of what a setup is about. You do realise even tiny changes in diff locking settings can cause or cure the effects you talk about.

Also the engines have MORE inertia in Y. This means having a lead foot (Read KB lumped in here) has more effect on car balance and weight transfer, again something you can dial out with the diff.

You do realise that the next improvements will mean you go through the SAME thing next time dont you.

Last time...

• BL1 has changed its layout.
  
• The F1 car changed because the LFS physics changed.

If you can't see that this will REQUIRE a change in your driving then you are playing the WRONG game

HTH

I am interested by the "leave the current" votes tbh.

Please show me a road car of TBO spec that would have less than 900 IRL. Most wll be up near the 108o mark TBH.

If you currently use 720 then 900 is not much difference at all and is more realistic. If you use less it does not effect you in the slightest so why vote no.

Quote from zeromussov :

Well, Scawen about the 900degrees:

I have asked Scawen about it. It will not make it his round of patches as stuff like driver animation updates are required but now on the work stack

I started a poll in improvements area to see what cars people feel should have 900 degrees.

Quote from NanG :

in patch X it was too high but now its way too low

In X is was too high but now it is about RIGHT!

THERE IS NO ENGINE TUNING IN LFS. STOP PRETENDING THERE IS.

You can't tune your engine in LFS to allow higher revs.

LIVE WITH IT!!!!

Quote from NanG :

i have done drifting myself in my RX7 (rotary bit different) and have gone well past my redline while drifting around corners with no damage too my engine

Where is the rotary we have in LFS then?

Quote from NanG :

but many of the drifters where i live use piston engines, sure they do blow every now and again

Hmm, so you agree that going past redline does damage the engine and will completly blow it, something that take HUGE effect in LFS.

The patch X engines had far too high redline, not many actually dispute that. They have been made more realistic in that respect now the redline is lower.

BTW, you can't tune your engine in LFS to allow it to rev into the redline so I ask again...

What is the POINT of allowing the engine into the redline when you can't tune it to allow it to cope with those revs? BTW, peak power is BELOW the redline. This should be interesting to say the least

Quote from NanG :

i still think the current rev limiter on all the lower cars is unrealistic and annoying. i do racing and drifting a lot on LFS (and real life) and when i get sick of that i do a burn out

i love the new physics and mechanics of Patch Y but the rev limiter ruins drifting in my opinion, ok so you dont have more power but tuning the car right you can keep the power in drifting after the red line. with the new patch you cant keep that higher end power because the car cant get too the higher revs.

i also find it unrealistic with the current rev limiters and the lack of ability too change where the limit is. most race cars (i know a lot of real life race car drivers) dont even bother putting one in their car, they find it more annoying than helpful. i can understand the high end full race set up cars being limited but the lower end cars shouldnt be, or allow people too change the limiter too their desire.

Change your GEARING not the rev limiter. Who cares if you can allow revs into the redline, its POINTLESS unless you want to damage your engine.

If you bounce your car off the rev limiter IRL remind me NEVER EVER to buy a car from you lol

I get the feeling you think the engines should be able to rev as high as they could Pre Y, tough they are more realistic now. That is ALL that matters

Actually no, let these people change the rev limiter but make the engine damage more agressive. I buggered the engine on a Saab when i bounced it off the rev limiter by mistake.

Last edited by Woz, Tue 12 Feb 2008, 07:48.

Quote from TVDinna :

Got it working, delete lock or whatever. Thanks.



After tinkering around on my own and sifting through some of the G25 threads here, I was wondering how to set brakes and gas to different axes? I was playing around and was wondering why downshifting was kind of weird, and the brakes so weak.
Thanks.

Go to control panel and the property panel for the G25. There should be a checkbox in there that splits/combines the axis.

The other trick is to download DXTweak. With this you can change the clutch so that it works like a real clutch, where only a part of the travel is when the clutch is active.

Quote from Joe_R :

did that multiple of times but is it possible to assign my brake to a paddle shifter on my steering wheel? i would really like to know

Yep. There should be one for button brake somewhere otherwise kb and joystick people would be stuffed. Never done it so not sure where it is.

BTW. Leave your brakes as axis and make clutch button. You need the find control on brakes more than a clutch

Quote from Joe_R :

i just looked at a post of how to do make the clutch replace the brake but i still havent got a clue wat to do....can anyone help plz? my steering wheel is a MOMO steering wheel.

thnx

Select the clutch axis in the contoller setup screen and assign it to the brake pedal. It means you will have NO brake but have a clutch.

Quote from Kat0san :

Second question which I hope isnt too dumb... Since I installed the Y patch the only car (i think) I can use the padels on the wheel with is the BF1. Other cars require me to take my foot off the accelerator to change gear with the padels. Im using a Logitech DFP which is fine but its not fun to need to lift off the accelerator to change gear. Thanks in advance.

Not sure if you drive IRL but if you do and do not mind the posibility of causing damage to your car try and change gear with your food planted all the time.

BTW: In LFS you do not have to lift on any car with sequentail gearbox apart from FMB. Have a look at the gearbox type in the Info page in the setup for each car to see what transmission they have

Quote from Bluebird B B :

The tc of lfs is very simple, it just limits slip, at whatever speed the car is going and what the driver is doing. Very much like the first generations of traction control over 15 years ago. TC-systems are a lot better nowadays... Thats why it is good news they are banned from F1. They cost too much money, not the simple one like lfs or road going cars(1500 dollars max to install) but in order of 1000000+ dollars of development on top f1 teams each year excusive production costs. I assume such system will do a bit more then just limit slip according to a very strict setting.

Anyway, i hope someday tc will be banned from lfs too, but not before the tyre-heat problem is fixed.

TC is a road car is even cheaper than that. When I bought my BWM Mini Cooper a while back having TC added to the car cost a massive $100GBP (Don't have the GBP symbol on my NZ keyboard )

This is because all the electronics for it, wheel sensors etc were already in the car. It made use of the ABS sensors to determine car state and then used throttle cut and separate wheel braking to implement.

The real cost was more for the switch on the dash that would otherwise have been a blank plate. The only reason I had it fitted in the end was so I didn't have an empty switch hole in the dash, I always turned off as I hated it with a vengence

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

A bit off-topic, but I thought I'd just add that it doesn't automatically mean that 'more difficult' = more realistic. A change in physics could just as well mean that a car becomes easier to drive because it is more predictable, which in turn would be because of the added realism.

Yep

Quote from Scawen :

About steering wheel rotation :

I think it should wait because all the driver steering animations would have to be upgraded. But it's something to think about and research, I agree. Also it's the kind of thing that might put hot laps out of sync although you might not expect it to. I wouldn't know without studying the code in detail. But it's not a quick thing to do, I have many much more important things to do, such as using a hardware draw for subobjects. If that can be done that will increase frame rates for everyone and is a step on the way to wings that break off (that will definitely not be in the next patch as it is definitely a physics change). I'm certainly not looking for improvement suggestions on this thread.

About Y10 :

I hoped to get that done today but some more things have come up and the reported issues are not all fixed. So that will be later, I hope tomorrow.

Thanks for the quick response and no worries. It was a bit of a sly one bringing up here as this is normally for feedback on the test patches.

I can see there is possibility for hotlap issues etc and had forgot the driver animations etc so do understand its more work than limit changes

At least I know its on the todo stack now. I know that before the G25 it was less of an issue as the DFP didnt get the user base the G25 has managed to get. It will also give the poll some more time to play out but I get the feel the rough counts show TBO and below should increase.

Thanks.