Great update full of neat improvements! (I noticed a small anomaly though. When you change your driver's name during an animation, the animation restarts. I can reproduce it with the 'Rossa' and 'MUN TG DUMPTRUCK' mods.)

Done so, upgrading from 47 to 79 slots worked flawlessly

OFF-TOPIC (unrelated to 0.7E)

I have a few questions/improvement suggestions regarding InSim :

• It would be useful to have an additional ISF flag (ISF_CIM) which would send an IS_CIM at InSim connect as you can't know in which mode the player is at InSim initialization.
• Is there a way, using IS_CIM, to know if the player is in the Mods screen or Cars screen? Shouldn't there be an additional mode identifier (CIM_GARAGE, CIM_CAR_SELECT and CIM_MODS_SELECT for example)?
• I suggest right click in the mods page to select a mod without going to the garage.
• SHIFT + i does not remove buttons with INST_ALWAYS_ON bit set in garage, cars or mods screen. Is this intentional?
• Is there a way to know how many mods are enabled in the mods screen? IS_MAL seems to also include hex names that are invalid/obsolete thus making it hard to have the list of the currently enabled mods but I may be missing something. Thanks for enlighting me.

Last edited by sicotange, Sun 24 Dec 2023, 13:07.

Purely inconclusive but : . ( ) characters spring to mind (lap/split timing syntax for example).

I should have shared more information in retrospect. The very high volume scared many out of their wits and several players also lost audio after a while. Is there an easy way to cap the volume to pertinent levels in order to prevent any abuse?

A small bug, which, if exploited, can be rather nerve wrecking. The following mod can (at a standstill combining manual clutch and revving) cause a very loud clipping noise : ROCKSPECIAL~016. Loud enough to annoy players heavily (possibly even damage hearing). Can this mod be disabled/deleted as soon as possible? My eardrums thank you in advance

Sensational update!

A few suggestions :

• IS_CIM doesn't include the new "Mods" selection page. But wouldn't it make more sense to have only 1 car selection screen? Basically, integrating "Car" to the new "Mods". Furthermore, with the amount of Mods being added, a view filter ("Grid") in order to display more than 5 cars, maybe by excluding the mod info and resizing the image for example seems useful. Screenshot attached clarifies.
• The "Browse" button, at first glance, doesn't seem intuitive to me. I suggest a refresh button.
• In V0.6 the welcome message at connection had some uses to display server info dynamically. I used filewatching to display server features. Are there still ways of using /welcome=X.txt duly?
• Would it make sense to make "new guest connecting" message (and perhaps others such as "Scawen pitted" and "Scawen left the pits (UF1)") optional?

Quote :

I'm not sure about keeping the "installed" mode at all. Maybe it should be more like a favourites list, and that favourites list should not be any mod you ever selected, but instead you would have to manually add a mod to favourites, then it would appear in that list (that would look just like the normal list but filtered for favourites only).

Would it clutter things to much to just add a "Favourites only" button with the ability to make a mod "favourite"? And perhaps also the ability to delete a mod directly from the list.

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Would it be possible to have a key that would turn them off temporarily? I imagine that just while the key is pressed would be better than an on/off toggle, so it would be like when we use ctrl+alt to momentarily turn playernames into usernames. That'd be just enough for a quick visual check before we place, without hobbling the usefulness of the outlines.

It is indeed useful to be able to hide the outlines in some cases.

Quote :

I haven't thought much about this or tested it, but would CTRL+SHIFT be a good key for this?

As it is used in a few places to provide a temporarily different display.

CTRL+SHIFT seems pertinent although SHIFT is already used to keep the selection when you are no longer in FVM_EDIT mode. What about the ALT key?

Quote :

Start position / checkpoints / finish line now in control section

I always assumed the fact you can only add one of each was the reason they were excluded from the editor. Having all objects listed in the editor + removal of these dedicated keys ('S', 'F', '1', '2', '3') is a nice improvement.

Quote :

New value PMO_AVOID_CHECK for PMO_ADD_OBJECTS avoids validity check

Thanks!

The following report is probably not related to the test patch. Nor is it a bug but it might be worth mentioning. When you add (by pressing 'O' or 'M') a selection (row as shown in the screenshots attached) of intersecting movable objects with PMO_AVOID_CHECK flag set the validity check is performed. A PMO_ADD_OBJECTS is sent followed by a PMO_DEL_OBJECTS. Interestingly it does not remove all objects. It typically leaves 1 or 2 objects. The same happens when you place on ground.

This is probably much ado about nothing although, as a result the UNDO/REDO is blocked. You can't undo from that point on anymore.

The screenshots illustrate a row of intersecting movable objects (with ground level check) which were copy-pasted.

EDIT:
Interestingly, depending on which the last selected object is 1 object or 2 objects are left undeleted. Could the validity check become patchy when movable objects (especially railing, I can't reproduce this with other movable objects) are close to one another?

Last edited by sicotange, Thu 24 May 2018, 13:11.

Quote :

UCID can be set in some IS_AXM packets by an external InSim program
to make the resulting packets appear as if sent by an editing admin
(PMO_ADD_OBJECTS / PMO_DEL_OBJECTS / PMO_CLEAR_ALL)

Thanks a bunch for this! IS_AXM is now much easier to manipulate reliably in comparison to 0.6R.

I have just one comment to make. When you press 'o' out of bounds you get "Can't add : invalid position" (when the object has ground level check). The invalid position check is also enabled when you send an IS_AXM by InSim with a valid UCID. It is disabled when UCID is "invalid" or 0. Would it make sense to treat all IS_AXM's sent by InSim the same way, meaning no invalid position check?


EDIT:
The same applies to "Can't add : intersecting object" (when the object is movable). It is more usable and less tricky to manipulate IS_AXM by InSim when the intersecting check is disabled.

Last edited by sicotange, Wed 16 May 2018, 20:46.

Quote :

I think the resulting selection after an undo is 'clipboard' if the original operation was adding objects, 'real' otherwise.

This seems to be the correct approach.

Quote :

I'm not sure how to reproduce that.

If I join a local host and I send add or delete packets (by deleting or adding an object in the layout editor) my UCID is reported.

By deleting or adding an object in the layout editor does that mean adding/deleting objects by pressing 'O'/'delete' keys?

I'm confused. I think I explained myself very badly. We might not be on the same page.

To recapitulate, if I send an IS_AXM with PMOAction PMO_ADD_OBJECTS and UCID 200 for example it will add the object accordingly. The ObjectInfo will be reported correctly but the UCID reported will always be 0. Key presses ('o', 'delete', 'ctrl+v', 'ctrl+x') do report the UCID correctly on the other hand.

It would be very helpful to be able to setup the IS_AXM UCID byte and have it reported back instead of it being 0. Sorry for the confusion...

Last edited by sicotange, Sat 12 May 2018, 22:29.

Quote :

InSim :
Fixed an inaccuracy in the reporting of objects being deleted

Thanks!

Quote :

Layout editor :
Undo (CTRL+Z) and redo (CTRL+Y) functions now included

Another useful addition. Selection changes (real and in hand) are not taken into account?

I'm being the devil's advocate here but is there a pertinent reason for the inability to set the UCID of the IS_AXM packet?

The UCID is reported in case of PMO_TTC_SEL, PMO_SELECTION, PMO_POSITION but is always 0 in case of PMO_ADD_OBJECTS and PMO_DEL_OBJECTS. Is this intentional? It would be helpful to be able to set the UCID to know who requested the packet in question.

Unrelated to 0.6R18 but could be considered a small bug. When an object(s) flags (changing colour or angle of a Wedge object for example) are modified the pair of PMO_MOVE_MODIFY is sent. But the Flags byte in the ObjectInfo of both the PMO_DEL_OBJECTS and PMO_ADD_OBJECTS is identical. The PMO_DEL_OBJECTS should show the old Flags while PMO_ADD_OBJECTS should show the new Flags.

It's a futility really and I think the InSim app could assume the Flags byte was changed when the ObjectInfo pair is identical but it took me a while to realize this and with a bit of luck this is an easy fix.

Quote :

Original objects are now shown with grey lines after copy pressed

Introduced with 0.6R16. When you copy, the grey outline remains even when you change the object flags and heading. When you press PGUP/PGDOWN on the other hand the outline disappears. I suppose this is intentional?

Quote :

So what I've done is replaced the slightly unpredictable PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS and instead there is a new flag PMO_MOVE_MODIFY with the same value.

It is now sent in both of the packets (add/delete) of a move/modify pair and in all cases when an object is conceptually moved or modified, including marshall object changes and when typing a start position index our a route checked index.

Great

Quote :

What exactly is it you would like? Something like PMO_MOVE_MODIFY (value 8)
and that same flag would be placed in the delete packet and the add packet when they are being sent as a pair?

That's exactly what I wished for. Then I discovered PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS. I don't know if it serves a particular purpose but I noticed it can be relied on in certain cases. PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS is not reported with any of the marshall objects but anyway, your suggestion is ideal

Would PMO_MOVE_MODIFY work both ways (I also send pairs to move/modify objects with IS_AXM)? It might also be useful for PMO_SELECTION_REAL to be reported.

Quote :

Is there any need to distinguish between (1) moving objects and (2) generally changing attributes like colour, size, etc? Or can they be treated all the same?
There aren't all that many flags available in that byte so I only want to use up the minimum, but of course it should be as useful as possible.

Unless I'm missing something this is unnecessary as you achieve this easily by comparing the ObjectInfo Flags byte of the delete and add packet pair.

I just realized the IS_AXM PMO_ADD_OBJECTS has the following PMOFlag when an object is moved/modified: PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS.

Scawen, is PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS a reliable way to distinguish between object modifications and add/delete?

EDIT:

Is there a reason PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS is only reported when PMOAction is PMO_ADD_OBJECTS and not PMO_DEL_OBJECTS? At first glance it would be very useful if it was reported in both cases.

EDIT2:

I think it is wise to discard my previous post as well as this one. PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS seems like a hidden gem that can be used in several ways

Last edited by sicotange, Thu 3 May 2018, 12:00.

OFF-TOPIC:

Is there a way to know when an admin deletes an object selection or modifies an object selection (X, Y, Z, Heading arrows click)?

When a selection is modified is the PMO_DEL_OBJECTS always sent prior to the PMO_ADD_OBJECTS?

I wonder if any InSim developer encountered this problem. I'm finding it difficult to come up with an elegant way to distinguish between the deletion of an object selection and the modification of an object selection. In both cases the PMO_DEL_OBJECTS is sent but you don't know if an PMO_ADD_OBJECTS follows it (=object selection modification).

Very cool improvements!

Quote :

M key can now be used with clipboard objects (select then CTRL+C)

This fixes the issue some reported.

Quote :

Multiple object rectangle select CTRL+drag with left mouse button

Obviously very useful and welcome. It's almost ahead of its time due to the ObjectInfo limit

Quote :

An outline is now drawn around the selected objects

The color shifting between yellow and green is interesting. I'm slightly confused though. The yellow outline is used for the last manually selected object. But how does that work with the CTRL+drag rectangle?

In your example, you know that the selection button is in the middle of chalk lines so you know that it is the first of the 3 highlighted.

Additionally, you can adjust Z to be sure. If the selection buttons are compacted things do get confusing either way (screenshot attached) and having the object in hand won't help much in this case but you can always press CTRL+C twice.

I don't see how this was better in 0.6R

Quote :

Is there any way to get the old layout editor back? I'm really disappointed with the regress here and, if I may add, I do not understand why something needs to be changed after 15 years, especially when it's something, nobody ever complained about.
I've certainly placed over 100,000 objects with it over the time and the only wish I ever had was a bigger choice of objects.

Have you tried it in debt? There is a long list of obvious improvements you would notice, especially if you use the autocross editor a lot.

Many limitations were lifted and user-friendliness has been improved substantially. What in particular disappoints you?

Scawen, is it intentional to clear the selection in hand (PMO_SELECTION or editor selection) when you press CTRL+C and no objects were added previously? You get "No object is selected to copy" and the selection is cleared.

That makes sense. Then I'm also in favor of left mouse button. Although I feel you shouldn't adapt to the psychorigid people but the other way around

Is it necessary to choose left or right mouse button? Could both serve the same purpose?

Additionally, is a rectangle the best way to select? Hovering, over the selection buttons with a circle might also work well.

Quote :

I was thinking of one more possibility.
Maybe the O key and CTRL+V could act differently?
I'm not sure if this is a good idea yet but what I'm thinking is:

O : place object and copy immediately. Now the 'in hand' object is visible (but new world object is not selected).

CTRL+V : place object(s) and leave the new world object(s) selected.

This might be welcome if there is no trade-off.

• If you press O then CTRL+V would still work as usual?
• If CTRL+V was pressed would O still work?

Quote :

Does that happen all over the track, or are there certain spots where you can't move them to?. I could only reproduce that trying to place them outside the track's bounds when they are "on ground", but I can place them if I raise it off the ground.

It happens anywhere on track but weirdly Rockingham, Autocross and Westhill are unaffected.

Quote :

Nope, I get "can't move : invalid position". I get that on all the items in that submenu until I place one, then it all works as expected.

This bug seems to affect Restricted areas and InSim checkpoints. Or this is a different one. How to reproduce:
• Make sure all layout objects are cleared
• press SHIFT + U
• click InSim checkpoint
• click finish line
• press O
• type /axclear
• click finish line, 1st checkpoint, 2nd checkpoint or 3rd checkpoint

InSim checkpoint is added.

Your layout works as intended. I failed to mention clearly how to reproduce it. You must start from scratch (no objects). And the first submode you click must be marshall.


Racon, would you be so kind to test the following:
• Make sure all layout objects are cleared
• press SHIFT + U
• click marshall
• click Restricted area
• click point left

Can you select point left?

I tried from a fresh install in several modes. It still happens but interestingly not on all tracks.

Tracks I tested where problem occurs:
• BL1X 1
• KY1X 1
• SO1X 1
• AS1X 1
• FE1X 1

Tracks I tested where problem doesn't occur:
• AU1X 1
• RO1X 1
• WE1X 1

Last edited by sicotange, Thu 26 Apr 2018, 23:44.