It's funny how you inaccurately point something irrelevant to what I said. Even though that braking was insufficient, it wasn't a steady 10% till the bump, while the speed difference increased rapidly due to sudden heavy braking of the front cars.
I guess it's in your rulebook, having spins that don't cause any damage or cost any time to others, results in insta-kick.

well... of course all this is gone to the shelf now. I just wanted to point out that kick isn't a result of unsportsmanlike behavior or disobedience.

Last edited by kaynd, Sun 25 Mar 2012, 03:32.

Quote from Billkaza :

Why was i kicked?

Quote from Mustangman759 :

Kick was for not obeying orange flag (if you did obey it you did not take service) therefor your team was black flagged from the race and DSQed

Sorry, but this isn't the case. kick happend @ 1:42:28 race time and there was no orange flag present for V.Kazantzas.

There are many more aspects that could be different than just torque curve.
Different weight distribution and suspension geometry alone could make a whole lot difference in driving experience. But none of those do really matter until the new tire model is done.

The wheel mechanism is way stronger than you think... it isn't going to fail anytime soon. Especially if you are not using anything close to maximum % of feedback forces. Stop worrying too much about your wheel and enjoy racing. Crashes are supposed to shake your wheel.

I didn’t know someone can download straight from Vimeo (not registered there) but anyway, there is always a way to download video stream. I was just hoping for even higher quality (less codec compression) than vimeo’s HD. :yummy:

But of course video looks already good so don’t bother uploading it anyware else.

Nice job! I would prefer less massive crash scenery and more paused intense racing moments (leaned cars , raised wheels, inside tire smoking trail braking, side by side action, deformed tires etc.)
But this was already too close to what I wanted to see

So… where is that HQ video download link ?

You might need to get at least your front wheels balanced. The offroading into the field might have caused an already installed balancing weight to drop off a rim.
There could be something worse… eg a bent rim or faulty suspension bushings. But better start from the easiest scenario.

I have to say, I loved your previous skin; but eventually some things have to change The new one is good enaugh for the job.
Thumbs up for the video effort too.

As long as it is forced against the ground, It always has grip... in the above case it just got past its optimum slip angle.
What I was really saying though is that also the inside tires where slipping excessively. Just the vertical load was so low that couldn’t justify a skidmark. Hence what you saw in game.

The answer on your questions is given by jtw62074 though. So if there is something more to discuss here, you should refer to the last jtw's post.

Quote from pajkul :

Oh, and probably the most importantly: would you be so kind and explain why the front left tyre is losing grip at TURN 1 during the hotlap, not the front right? The natural thing would be that there's more load on the front left tyre, so it has MORE grip than the front right. Probably this is somehow connected to what you've described before - the higher the vertical load, the lower the friction coefficient. But I can't be sure.
Replay:
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=72052

I can't really see what you describe.
In which way you detect the grip loss? From corner entry to mid corner, both front tires are slipping above optimum slip angle.. so they are both "loosing grip". (pict 3)
(press F to get forces view)
I guess you saw at the skidmarks the outside tires make. But that doesn't mean the inside tires are not slipping.

In case you are referring to the grip loss that happens earlier while braking, I think it’s quite obvious that curb rumble strips don't let the left suspention settle, making tire load oscillate from normal to almost 0. (pict 1 , 2)


PS
Todd, I admire your patience in explaining the same thing again and again... Probably 98% of your posts here are about tires and vehicle dynamics in general.

#50 Hellenic Racing Team
GT2 XRR

Varwnos, Andy Perrs, Greece
CBR929, George Alamaras, Greece
nikosk31, Nikos Koudourakis, Greece
kaynd, Kritolaos Daskalopoulos, Greece

sorry for the late lineup post.

#50 Hellenic Racing Team
GT2 XRR

CBR929, George Alamaras, Greece
Varwnos, Andy Perrs, Greece
kaynd, Kritolaos Daskalopoulos, Greece

Yes Indeed

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Inferno oughts to be counted, as they haven't officially withdrawn(yet?) though they missed last race. And with a win and a 4th place in the first 2 rounds, I see no way how they can realistically be ruled out of the "top" or the "average" team list.

No no you got me completely wrong there. I just didn’t include Inferno there because I thought they had withdrawn from the season. (sorry. my mistake)


As for the other news, I get your point. But really this wasn't just about balancing. (I have stated my thoughts on this matter before the season start).
This was more of a frustration expression right after the race, mainly because we lost any chance to just follow the competition being stuck on a sand trap for several minuters.
Anyway I don't think that any of this is counterproductive, unless having logic arguments is that tiring to you.

Well. Its great how I am shit talking and still none of the existing top or even average teams drive the XRR in MoE.

Once more. XRR is competitive and I am fine with it.
What I said about its engine characteristics are facts, regardless our performance with it.

And still my main problem was not its engine performance. I just wrote something about it because it’s an easy matter.
But I can say nothing about the main problem… the sand traps. If it would work, I would raise the car as high as possible so it couldn’t get stuck. But it isn’t a matter of ground clearance unfortunately. (yes I have tried it, and because it doesn’t affect aero, and tire physics are too forgiving in extreme loads, it doesn’t decrease the car’s cornering and straight line speed.)

I wouldn’t say dominant. But KY3 favors XRR a bit because it has less "stop and go", slow or twisted corners than AS5. (so turbo lag or engine "flexibility" is not an issue.)
Other than that, XRR is just fine and its cornering performance is great.
As I have already stated, it doesn’t need more power. It just needs a wider powerband so someone could have a bit more freedom in gear ratios selection. (That would also reduce the problem of turbo lag)
GT0 already helps a bit in this direction by upping the displacement to 2,2L. But also this causes a change of the CoG position, so upping the displacement furthermore would be a disaster. I suspect you haven’t any other way of changing engine characteristics.
Anyway. Don’t bother. You have already done enough.

The majors issue is that behavior over sand traps, and we can do nothing about it.

Last edited by kaynd, Mon 14 Feb 2011, 03:35.

Quote from JPeace :

But then, how many times did you see an FZR go into the gravel, and how many times did you see an XRR go into the gravel? XRR was in gravel more than the FZR, which is why you lost so much time in it.

Well; for the record, my team got stuck on sand traps 2 times during the 24h race. The first was caused by running with punctured tires while trying to avoid traffic and the second time was a mistake of one of our drivers.
I didn’t get stuck on a sand trap trough my 140laps of my period in the race, if this means anything to you. (it doesn't mean anything to me)

It’s not just about my experience of the race. I am talking generally about that situation from my first post.

Quote from MoMo92i :

hum...btw XR2 won round 1 and Team Inferno was in the leading pack of round 2.

Let's be honest this isn't the first time that MoE run that combo so the majority of the teams there have already a basic set. In XRR there are not as many GT2 sets as in FZR. That's all, then I'm sure XR2 could do 47.XX and if you check from spdo DB FZ2 pace on it first ever season, you gonna see that it wasn't running some 46.

I said it can’t be as fast. (But it gets really close.) As for the inferno guys, that’s more a matter of some raw talent and experience. It would be great if they could compete here to set the benchmark for XR2 in this race. (Probably you read half of what I wrote. “Just another moaner” yeah I know this is the first impression)

I did 2:48.3 while practicing with many mistakes... 2:47 is definately possible even by a not talented driver like me. I just hadn't the mindset to do that in the race. And that's partly because...

Quote from JPeace :

Well, for one, don't crash into the gravel captin obvious.

exactly that
A mistake like that in XR2 can cost several minutes or just one lap if you shift+p early enaugh... on the other hand the same mistake in FZ2 costs some seconds.


[edit]
On another note, it was a pretty clean and enjoyable race (lots of nice battles on the stream )

Last edited by kaynd, Sun 13 Feb 2011, 18:40.

XRR gets stuck on the sand traps and still can’t be as fast as FZR
FXR lacks greatly on straight line speed due to increased drivetrain losses and also lacks in cornering speed due to the front weight distribution->downforce distribution-tires dimensions.
And then it’s the turbolag and the narrower powerband of the ~2L turbo engine comparing to the 3.6ΝΑ (and yes. this isn’t about max power to weight ratio… let alone torque to weight ratio. These are totally different engines that perform in different rpm bands; comparing max torque figures is ridiculous.)

All this combined with our luck of free time, raw talent, and members that are willing to keep spending their little free time in LFS, equals to major fail.
Constant fail gets too frustrating.
Playing the “obstacle” role isn’t that fun obviously.

Maybe this should be an FZR league. Unless you like racing with subclasses in addition to the defined car classes, and even more obstacles.
But anyway we most probably won’t be around here after the end of this MoE season. Its time to let LFS rest till it get some decent updates.

Anyway, sorry for the captain obvious post.

Last edited by kaynd, Sun 13 Feb 2011, 18:01.

#50 Hellenic Racing Team
GT2 XRR

CBR929, George Alamaras, Greece
Varwnos, Andy Perrs, Greece
kaynd, Kritolaos Daskalopoulos, Greece
Metalass, Christos Panoulas, Greece

Hellenic Racing team voted.

cbr929

#50 Hellenic Racing Team
GT2 XRR

CBR929, George Alamaras, Greece
Varwnos, Andy Perrs, Greece
kalabas, Vagelis Kalabalikis , Greece
kaynd, Kritolaos Daskalopoulos, Greece

Thanks. This race was really clean indeed. As for our behavior, well we always try not to cause trouble to any other racer. It’s just that we are not that consistent as a team in what we do when getting lapped. Each driver has its own way of… giving way.
eg I tend to give way asap while some of my teammates let the passing car find a way around (not blocking of course). This has a downside as I think sometimes passing drivers get confused right after our driver change.
Anyway, regardless the result, we are always trying to keep racing as clean as we can.

Our driver and myself where caught in the sleep while preparing for the last fast lap. (I actually had to check the replay to find out what exactly happened.)
Trying to let the cars in front get away, I forgot to check for following drivers in fast laps.
It’s totally our fault but it wasn’t intended.