Indeed softer rear antiroll bar helps an fwd car with locked diff to turn in easier but also increasers the oversteer effect that the locked diff creates under power.
Using the locked diff, both wheels rotate at the same speed so imagine if we could keep the load equal at both wheels, the car would not turn at all… but that’s just impossible so the more weight transfer you have from the inside to the outside wheel, the more oversteer under power you have. (Taking in count LFS tires… a real tire doesn’t give you that high grip as the load increases)
Grater weight transfer, when turning, appears at the harder end of the car.

As for the antiroll bars don’t go at a lot higher stifress rate than the springs… that doesn’t help especially on bumpy surfaces and generally the weight transfer from side to side stops being linear… it moves rather suddenly.

Also don’t adjust the height only by what you see using drop in the garage… this is not the maximum force than the suspension will get while driving. Do a lap, save the replay and see where the car bottoms out using the “force” view (F)

[edit]

As for the laptime, it is your driving that you have to improve now, the setup is already nice.
I gave it a go… just to see some slow laptimes with no experience at that combo, but with some XFG experience.
In 8 laps I dropped to 1.34 flat with the setup you attached here.
You can see the beginning of my learning curve there… I dropped 3 sec in 8laps and I think I can easily drop another sec after 30 laps or so but I can’t be bothered to use my wheel now because I don’t have much time to spare for the following 3 weeks.

Last edited by kaynd, Mon 28 Jan 2008, 04:09.

Quote from Bandit77 :

I cured it by changing the track on the rear a bit. It's quite ok now.

kaynd: I don't think the answer really depends on the set.

now I am at this point again where the set feels nice, but i'm still slowish... must be the driving .

It depends on the set since thete are many ways you can eliminate the effect you described and in order to choose one of them you have to know most of the setup's values.

There is no way to change track, not even by camber changes since ufr has a trailing arm at the back so i assume you incleased the rear antiroll bar.

I think the setup is already fast... considering that you have 80hp at the baby UFR class.
If you are still slow it is just your driving.

Logitech is without a competitor for long… long time in the ff wheel market.
I don’t think that G25 was the best they could do… nor it is good in general… there is just nothing better to compare…

I know fanatek made pathetic wheels till now but it is not rocket science orsomething… if a company take it seriously, they can easily make a better product.

I am disappointed from the build quality of the internals of my G25…
After less than 6 months the cogwheels inside sound terrible especially turning to the right… and also I can see some deadzone growing up lately… (Less than 1degree but still noticeable)
Actually I feel the wear at the feedback mechanism grow faster than in my old DFP… and now there are less cogwheels and the motors get less stress cause they are not forced to spin that fast as the one motor did in the DFP.

I am not saying that fanatec’s 911 is a better wheel as I don’t have a clue really… I am saying that it could be.

Last edited by kaynd, Sun 27 Jan 2008, 14:20.

I have never watched that video so carefully to spot the fake sound… but that explains to me why the revs shown on the rev meter have nothing to do with the engine’s sound…

Quote from Stigpt :

try all of the following (1 or 2 clicks only)
Stiffer rear ARB

No reason for that in that given problem… in that way you just increase corner exit oversteer because you move weight to the back while keeping the rear roll resistance almost the same… if not increasing it because +- 1kN/m change on the antiroll bars effects way more the roll resistance than +- 1kN/m on the springs.

You want less weight transfer from the rear inside to the rear outside wheel and that means you need at least softer antiroll bar at the back or harder arb at the front.
To keep the suspension balanced you have to reduce the rear roll stiffness by both arb and springs… It has no sense to do changes when the one counteract the other as far as roll resistance is concerned… unless you need e.g. more corner exit overseer and that’s another story

As for reducing the negative camber value on the inside wheel, this is not easy on long tracks with both important left and right turns, but it will increase the inside tire traction indeed.

Quote from Vain :

That immediately leads to the fact that a high locking factor is the way to go.

It’s not about high or low. It’s about having just enough locking.
That’s why it is part of the setup… usually on a track with low speed corners (close to 90deg) you need a less locked diff to put the power down than what you need while exiting from a fast bend.
Axus set may work fine on Blackwood but not on Westhill

Also the proper diff’s locking factor is hugely affected by the roll stiffness relation of front and real suspension. With a softer rear end you could give a bit more traction to the rear inside wheel and that affects the needed locking factor.

Attaching the setup might help.

Nice one even though I don’t like the camera rolling close to 90 degrees for no reason, but nice use of the black borders to make the viewer focus on the cars.
Apart from that I liked the music so you got me with that one

"A one-year subscription to the service will cost $13 per month and includes all of the content necessary for a subscriber's first season of oval-track and road-racing."
So 1 year of racing on that sim will cost 156$ ?? is this a joke?

I think they got mad trying to capture the tracks with that laser scanner… I don’t expect the physics to be a lot better than LFS or nkp… but that is just speculating and it will stay that way if they don’t release any demo vertion.

Well :wave2: bye bye iRacing team... you are going to make a nice community for sure by forcing anyone to pay at least 13$ a month.

Nice quality. The intro animation is neat. All chosen cameras are decent and some of them really good.
No mistakes overall, clean video.
But it wasn’t that exiting... The field in most of the scenes seem to be empty with not enough cars on the track… especially on the wide ones (we as ky), the viewer feels kind of… lonely…
Well even in that way till the first 3 maybe 4 minutes it is ok… but there is a long way till 6:32. I think you could try to avoid some scenes… keep the best one and make the video 1 or 2 min shorter…
Eg what exactly you want to show us in 5:39-5:44? Or 3.18-3.26?? I can feel that there are many scenes like those two that are fitted just in order to help you synchronize some other scenes.

Quote from MXM1 :

I'd like people to see it in full res (you just can't seriously compare 320-side with 1024-wide frame), but then again it's better if someone will see it in youtube quality than not at all. But if there was a youtube option, nobody at all would go for 220mb avi.

I am downloading now... but I think you are wrong about that desision.
If people like it, they are going to download the hi ress vertion

Any video creator doesn't want to see his creation been ruined by youtube’s quality but you have to convince the viewers that your video is worth downloading.

You could at least stage6 it

Quote from legoflamb :

FWD cars are supposed to to be quicker and easier to drive

This is not a fact.
They supposed to be easier to drive, not by any means faster (if we talk about cars with the same weight)… but anyway this has nothing to do with the battle in drive trains.
It’s quite obvious why the FXO has faster cornering… it has at least the same front tire width with lower profile comparing to XRT and it is 87kg lighter than the XRT

But on the other hand… Scawen already reduced the FXO’s tire width… it may not be 100% balanced yet but it is closer than before.
Maybe the next step is increasing the tire wear while dereasing a bit cornering capabilities by adding weight. let’s say 10kg while keeping about the same ps/ton (that means increasing by ~5ps the power).


But we better see the difference in league races and WR’s because it is not by any means 1sec per 1min track in advantage of FXO… And currently there are not enough races driven or decent WR set in any car class...

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I know that many people here can create their own setups and stuff, but for those of us (mostly in America) who have never raced a car because they'd get sued by everyone within 5 miles for everything they did, some of us do not have the experience to create a good setup and are forced to go online hunting for them.

Setups in LFS have nothing to do with real life experience.
You just have to adapt the setup philosophy to the sim’s physics limitations.
Apart from that you can never tune a real car in a way you do in LFS… IRL most of the times you don’t know the exact bump and rebound ratios you play with clicks… you can’t adjust the antiroll bars by 1NM.. you just can pick how thick the ARB in scales of some mm same goes with the springs where you have very limited choices… Maybe aliment is the only think possible in detail and that usually after some modifications but you still have not room to play from +4.5 to -4.5 degrees.

In LFS you can use directly all the theoretic principles of car dynamics while IRL the decisions you can make are very limited…

As for the theory which is the only think you need to make a decent setup in LFS, LFSforum is heaven for someone who wants to learn. The only experience that will make you build faster setups is the visual one that you get, racing in LFS.

Anyway not anyone can be forced to make setups. that’s why all these setup databases that exist are so popular. Usually the only think you have to do is just to adjust a bit the tire pressures and/or the tire compound so they can last for races.

Still though the request could be valid… there could be some better rase S type setups but track specific setups?? No way… this is waste of time for anyone because setups evolve by racers... not game developers. …there isn’t out there any recipe for the perfect setup...

Most of the cars got a lot lower redlines since patch V
Eg FXO’s redline now is @ 7500rpm… if you pass that you are overreving, damaging the engine.

Always liked your camerawork kamkor
Combined with some effects and colour levels, the result is really neat.

Well I think it is just ok…
Yeah I got bored but not because it is something extremely wrong with the movie… but because we have already seen everything from drift movies…

I guess it is not easy for him to use custom cameras cause I detect low frame rates with 16bit colors there… this requires ½ and ¼ speed recording for decent final frame rates and it is really difficult to direct a good scene in these conditions.

But anyway if you want to do something more than ok you have to put some effort in directing it… not just using effects.

There must be something emotional for you about that song that many of us can’t understand …maybe because we can’t understand what the lyrics of the song say and it doesn’t sound to fit with racing action at all.

As for the video is mainly a slide show of some nice racing photos and some short LFS video shots with not that good racing or drifting.

I really tried to see it till the end. Sorry… better luck next time

Indeed FXO is 87kg lighter than the XRT and has a bit wider-lower profile tires than the XRT
With a combination of + some extra weight and a bit thiner tires to the FXO I think it could be balanced nicely according to the other TBO cars…
I hope they don’t just decrease the power some more cause this just makes it even more unbalanced…

Appart from that rwd VS fwd VS awd is just noncence... anytype of car requires skill to go fast.

Last edited by kaynd, Tue 22 Jan 2008, 06:16.

Indeed lots of effort.
…and attention on details or maybe not?
First of all something gone wrong with your vid’s aspect ratio… the FZR became ugly widened cause of that… You don’t need ultra uber wide screen to impress… 16:9 is perfect of handled correctly.
Apart from that, cool effects where used but maybe too many in a less that 3 min movie.
As for the actual video footage.
What can I say… the 1/3rd of the movie have passed, the epic intro, and the only think we saw is a car doing random donuts?
Yeah that was apocalypse! Now take some super wow flashes to blind you a bit and… action! Or maybe not? Effect after the effect, cross fade with flashing, distortions and many more… but behind that I can’t find any great shots.

Anyway I hope this was more like editing training, trying to find out what your editing program can do.

You must be talking about endurance events…
Well I can’t see a “soft” way to prevent this.
Disconnections should count as a major car failure that don’t allow you to continue racing (obviously) and reconnecting should take the same time or lap penalty as shift+P

Don’t think that I never face connection problems so I don’t care… in fact I have too many of them… that keep me away of full grid league racing.

Actually, with a mouse it is much easier to catch a slide even in isi based games that support it.

From then it is a matter of accuracy and synchronization in order to drift.
This just isn’t a point really…

Quote from mr_x :

It was a forced 'upgrade' as my old Asus Socket A motherboard died. (...)
Plus I got the P4 + mobo + extra GB of memory for free.

Ah that makes the difference. For a moment I thought you paid for that “upgrade”.

Strange thing is that I happen to own a athlon XP 3000+ based system which I have left at my parents house (I use it only on holidays, I am not close enough to test it now) It has 512mb of ram and a geforce4 ti 4200 on it.
The final test patches and patch Y where tested at that machine and I do remember the FPS performance drop but no way that low it was more like 35-40fps when I was alone in the track.
Anyway I can’t verify that with screenshots as I am far away from that pc now.

I think you should benefit from your work and have some newer used parts. It should be possible to find an A64 3200+ (much better) with an nforce 4 based mobo + a cheap 7600level pci-x card with less than 60p in total.
It is still some money but it is manageable for a working man with no kids to feed.

Indeed new SO needs more possessing power but apart from this, I fail to see the upgrade you did…
Theese two CPUs are from the same generation… they where competitors when they where new and usually an Athlon XP was better at 3d multimedia applications comparing to the equivalent Intel P4 processor.
Furthermore the 2gigs of ram are going to boost your computer’s multitasting capabilities but if you don’t run anything else while playing, LFS on it’s own will never use more than 512mb of ram.
As for the gfx card it’s ok for LFS.

Quote from Harogeo :

Here's my result.12.125s
Q6600@4185MHz(watercooled)-Abit IP35pro-Kingston value ram 667@933mhz

Argggg
Haroreon you beat me
Anyway my 1wear old score lasted long enough at the top

Last edited by kaynd, Sat 19 Jan 2008, 16:50.

Nice one, even though I don’t really like the Japanese commentary that has nothing to do with the video but I understand that it is the only way to run this concept without having to record a commentator with acceptable accent, which isn’t that simple.

As for the quality.
Well I think that you should try to render it finally in a lower resolution cause in that way you can have better color quality with the same bitrate.
You can see in top notch LFS videos from DON or Unokeva that they usually don’t use more than 800*600 to the final rendered file and still there is no aliasing.
Sure they are using some amount of antialiasing while recording, but there must be a filter or something that decreases aliasing while downscaling the video.
Just food for image quality improvement