Quote from Scawen :

No, you are the one making false claims about an article that you have not bothered to read (by your own admission, and by the fact that you are making false claims about it).

So I have to prove in the article that there are no pros? How? You can't prove the absence of something. You can only prove the presence of something.

Quote from Scawen :

It's a well written article, pointing out the problems with excessive car use. It's not propaganda. It's a starting point for discussion, in a world mostly run by governments that are often supporting the car and neglecting (or even dismantling) other forms of transport.

It also points out many positives of cars, but that is not the purpose of the article. It's about the harm done by cars. The fact that the harm done by cars often affects those who cannot own a car, is part of the story.

I gave out the definition of propaganda above, long before I knew about this article. I haven't seen anyone argue with my definition. And this article (if we consider the source to be media and the fact that there are no pros) is propaganda by definition.

I liked the look of the racing version of the Ford Mustang GT3 and I decided to make that too, based on my other model.



So far, this is just the very beginning. But I hope to finish this mod before the next gt3 series starts, which will be in the summer from what I understand.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:21.

Quote from Scawen :

You didn't get very far reading the article, then?

Maybe. But since you're the one claiming, you can demonstrate the pros about the cars talked about in the article out of the context of the cons. And in this case, I agree that I was wrong.

Quote from Scawen :

Am I really seeing sarcastic comments about people who cannot afford a car, while they are living in a world built around the car?

What? If it were as you wrote it wouldn't be sarcasm. And if that's sarcasm, how do you think that works?
This sarcastic tone refers to a rhetorical trick in the article that uses the poor and children to push their agenda. Like I said the article is trying to fire all guns (use whatever methods, and whatever points they can come up with) And that doesn't mean I don't have an empathy for the poor and children.

Quote from Scawen :

I suppose your attitude explains a lot. There are a lot of people (who I might suggest are usually "right-wing") who cannot understand 'empathy' although it is actually a fairly normal thing to feel. And if they see someone appearing to care for others they do not know, are baffled and can only assume the person speaking nicely is "virtue signalling" or similar. Well, actually there is such a thing as caring for people (and not only people, but animals and the wider natural world) even when you don't know each person or animal or tree individually.

If we are to be assumed to *only* care about our selves and close family in an immediate sense, then we might as well dig up and burn and pollute everything and destroy the planet. Because why not, the air will still be breathable for our few remaining decades.

But if empathy is a real thing (and guess what, it is) then we might care about other people and future people, and the incredible complexity of the natural world too.

Most people in the world don't have a car, and there are already far too many cars and associated pollution and destruction. If you care about equality, you cannot pretend we can get a car and roads and the supporting industries for everyone to have their own car. There isn't space or enough resources or ability for earth to clean up the mess. So we need to come up with better ways to move people around, in comfort, without hardship. The car isn't the solution, no matter if it's electric.

This article does point out several benefits of the car, but it sensibly and reasonably points out many of the problems that it creates. I guess denial is the expected response from right-wing people who are only concerned with their own personal desires, but are too afraid to look at the bigger picture.

Please don't impose imaginary characters on me. I don't consider myself neither right nor left. And in general, I consider such a system of views (right/left, democrat/republican, liberal/conservative, capitalist/socialist, communist/nationalist) to be outdated. Not everything always works as a dichotomy of two ideas. You can just approach it rationally and take what works. Usually people like me are called centrists, but I don't like to impose myself on other people's ideas as a structured set of rules from which there is no way out. It just restrains the mind and keeps it from thinking in other directions.

In general, I agree with the message of the article, if the situation can change, and the safety and convenience of cars will increase, the number of traffic jams will decrease, the streets will be relieved, the pollution and ecology will be reduced, I will be only in favour. But I persistently dislike propaganda. And people in the West tend to be ignorant of it.

Quote from Sobis :

Hm I didn't really want to get into any arguments with you knowing your track record on topics like this

Why not? I don't have the characteristic of standing my ground in the absence of arguments unlike most people I've argued with. If I'm wrong, or if I don't have enough good arguments, I admit it. Also, my English is not good enough, and I don't always understand complex terms and context, so I might misinterpret something.

The other thing is that there's no specific topic of argument here. I just asked some questions I was trying to get an answer to. Because to me it didn't look like a person wants to provide objective information, but wants to make it more "impactful" whatever that means.

And if you want a good article with objective content, (and not a propaganda piece with scary numbers about 60 million deaths) find a good source that will review the pros and cons on the topic.

Quote from Sobis :

From your comment it seems you're thinking the section "inaccessibility of cars" is talking about difficult access to cars? If I interpret your comment here right, it seems that you yourself didn't read this?

It's true that I didn't read the article in detail. Because from its bulletpoints its essence is clear.

Quote from Sobis :

The second sentence explains what this section is about: "First, accessibility can refer to physical access to the built environment for people with disabilities". All of this is talking how car centered city planning/building causes accessibility issues for people with disabilities. Not once in this paragraph they mention inaccessability to owning a car as the main reason for overall inacessability in cities.

This is true, and here are a couple more quotes:

"Rather than dissolving space, the car economy redistributes it, and most disabled people are among the losers, along with people in poor neighbourhoods and children."

"Physical (in)accessibility and social (in)accessibility overlap and reinforce one another while also interacting with economic inaccessibility."

So there is poor neighbourds and children, and economic inaccessibility.
Oh my god, those poor ones and children, how dare they

But okay, I understand that there we're also talking about road use, parking, and redistributing space by building highways. But I brought it up to show the fact that the article is firing all guns, and I think I did that.
I really didn't read the article enough, and I probably got the context wrong on that point. But what about the logistics, am I wrong there too?

Central console texture not changed some reason, so i rename it (it fixed it somereason) and make quick fix.

Central console fixed.
One hole in undertray fixed.
Undertray mapping fixed.

Mod was updated:

Added skin template.
Turbo changed to 1.4 boost.
Changed center console screen.
Chanded default setups.
Added one more default setup.
Added more color sliders.
Added more defoult colors.
Fixed spoiler aero.
Changed some geometry and some mappings.

Quote from paket42x :

Alexey, how do u manage being such in-depth into some topics here, but still dont consider yourself as any kind of "propaganda"?

P.S Absolutely agree with topic starter, some interesting stats there

Do you have a personal life? Or do you care so much about my attention that you follow me under almost every post?

You once again show a lack of understanding of how language and definitions work. I cannot be a propaganda, (nor can any other individual) by the definition I gave above.

Quote from Nanex :

very nice, ...

Yes, https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/107369-Porsche-718-Cayman-GT4-RS-CS

It's probably been mentioned before, but the engine editor doesn't have enough numbers for the graph. (RPM, power, torque)

You said yourself that you know these facts (like the rest of us, probably), so what's the point of this article if you already know it? More impact? More impact for what?

I once gave a definition of propaganda on a forum.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

I understand propaganda as a intentionally biased presentation of information from the media. (Lie, half-truths, showing only one side of the truth when in fact there is another)

You may ask how do we know what the intentions are, easily, if the article does not present an opposing viewpoint. The intention of indoctrinating the viewer into the one point of view of the article is obvious.

If we consider this source as media, then this article is propaganda by definition.

Why would I want to read propaganda about the car harm?

I skimmed through the article though and it's horrible. It's trying to fire all guns. Often the article simply repeats the same talking points, or for example, it criticizes even interventions in human life, land use, time (because you need to drive the car) Housing cuz of "Automobility increases the cost of goods and services. The global housing crisis is largely a lack of affordable housing in cities"... f**k sake..

Automobility reduces the price of goods, not raises prices, have they even heard of the technical revolution of logistics? Without the automobile industry, we're back to the Middle Ages in terms of logistics... and because of that, prices will go up, not down, because it won't be profitable for manufacturers to deliver them that way. That would leave only shipping boats and airplanes, and those are much more expensive. And there are perishable products that will be impossible to ship over long distances without using planes.

And in the same article, under paragraph 6.2 they criticize the inaccessibility of cars....
What is this nonsense? They entire article criticizes cars, and says how bad they are, without pointing out any pros. And then they criticize cars because not everyone owns them..🤣🤣🤣 It even sounds like a stand-up joke... did anyone read that but me?

I don't care what the stated topic is or how many scientists signed off on it, but this kind of brainwashing crap is hard to find even in an authoritarian dictatorship under state military propaganda.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Mon, 8 Apr 2024 12:18.

There was 4 miner updates while mod on review.

- update 1

Added brake calipers.
Changed dashboard texture.
Front suspension fixed to more visually accurate.
Front and rear track width a bit more wider to fill up arches better.
Various fixes in mesh geometry and shading.
Some fixes in mappings.
Engine changed to turbo, added turbo gauge instead of fps.e

- update 2

Lod 2 arches fixed.
Change wheel visibility to inside covered
Enabled Rim protector.
Rim changed to more visually accurate.
Changed crankshaft rotation to clockwise.
Changed Dashboard texture.

- update 3

Changed engine sound.
Added gauge icons on Dashboard texture.
Changed Logo.
Changed engine sound (thanx to iiiiil)
Changed glass texture.
Added ind light.
Changed some mappings.

- update 4

Added strut cover.
Chended sidevent to better model.
Added grill to vent.
Changed some mappings.
Fixing some holes.
Chanded diff to LSD in Race default setup.
Added turbo icon on dashboard.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sun, 7 Apr 2024 14:37.

About indicators i find that moment - https://youtu.be/P4_K1WInzVA?t=555 But the indicator is also somewhere in the main light, I added it there.
The headlight under the main one is not an indicator, perhaps it is a fog light or high beam.

About brake calipers and disc, it was intentional. Some calipers are made like that.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sat, 6 Apr 2024 20:07.

Quote from Scawen :

I hope I'm not annoying you with feedback as I already posted in the other thread. It's just that I'm sitting here looking at the car and come across things.

Of course not, but I'm starting to feel a bit awkward, and I hope my mod doesn't distract you from working on LFS😅

Quote from Scawen :

1) I thought the front indicators are hard to see from some angles, like it has the front side ones but nothing front-facing. I really can't find reference on the internet but wondered if the lower front narrow strip lights could be used (though it needs reference material).

To be honest, I'm focusing on GT4 right now, because there's a lot more of all sorts of little details. And this mod was done just by "it feels right", and didn't research many things, for example I'm not sure about the front and rear fog lights that i made, it just seemed right to me and that's what I did, and same with rear bottom ind. Just because this is just the first WIP version and i can fix it easely in no time.

Quote from Scawen :

2) I found the up-down gear indicator on the dash too hard to read, it was so small, I thought maybe the 7-segment number would be enough as it looks nice. But I am uninformed, it's just an opinion / observation. But I think this is covered by superlame's suggestion.

Same thing, I haven't looked into this enough and superlame has pointed out that there is no such indicator on this model of the real car, so it will be removed in the next update.

Quote from Scawen :

3) I think the rear number plate has too much vertical stretch.

This number plate was in the blueprint, so I'm make it like this. I will redo it to the European standard in the near future.

Quote from superlame :

Hi...

Thank you for info, ill fix that in next update.

Quote from gu3st :

Also important to note that the compounds that LFS ships with are fairly...

I completely agree, I don’t see the point of having different brands of tires in LFS. It would be reasonable if these brands have different treadwear.

Quote from paket42x :

Hello, my friend Alexey...

This topic is about tires and not suspension, so I don't understand the point of this comment.

I just gave a simple example that with the current tire physics do not have enough tires for 2 runs, and that's it.

Quick test, everything pretty much like I said.


Correct size replica of New Jersey Speedway.
I did a little warm up of the tires to simulate a real drift battle, lost the grip in the second half of the first run, I couldn't even finish it properly because of the loss of the grip. (I'm not at my best as a drifter right now, so you can blame me.) And tire pop in second run.

Mod - 8JFZ NAGATA SPEC.
Engine 900hp.
Weight - 1520 kg.
Tires - Road_Super, Front 245/35R19, Rear 275/35R19.

The mod is close enough to what can be in real competitions, except that it is a bit heavy, usually copm drift cars weigh about 1250kg.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Tue, 2 Apr 2024 17:06. Reason : add some info

I just thought about LFS tire physics and realized that for some reason I didn’t give here the most obvious example that points to a lack of tire physics. In LFS it is impossible to make a proper competitive car for drifting.

Drifting is a good stress test for tires and I think it can be used as a kind of benchmark. One battle consists of two heats (runs/races), between two drivers, since the leader and the chaser change positions. No tire changes are allowed between the heats. So they drive both races on the same tire. There drifting series (RDS, DMEC, Formula Drift, D1) where some cars have engines of much more than 1000 horsepower, Before the start of pair run drifters also warm up tires by making donuts, wearing off part of the rubber layer and drive 2 heats in a some configuration at full throttle with a high angle and good grip. (Although some drivers claim that their tire is enough for exactly 2 laps in configuration, after which the metal cord can show through.)



Like this example with the New Jersey Raceway in total there's over 1 km of drifting, If similar conditions are made in LFS, (with same cars/power/tires/track configuration) then on a good grip, with good angle the car will only be able to drive half of configuration for first run, and then the grip will be unrealistically bad. And most likely won’t even be able to complete the second one due to tire pop.

This example vividly demonstrates not only that the LFS don't have the correct grip in relation to temperature, but also wear and tear.

Quote from rane_nbg :

I feel like I'm in those games where you need to find a difference between two pictures and not see anything

Are you talking about shading and reflections? If so, isn't this due to the new LFS lighting method that the Editor is using? It's still not available in-game, this will be in the upcoming future update.

Im talking about dashboard texture, and it probably cant be fixed cuz converting in dds that have less quality. But maybe it not that bad if ppl do not notice that, but for me it looks obvious though.

I'm wondering, in the LFS editor PNG the texture looks good, but when testing in the game, the gradient looks stepped, is it possible to fix this so that it looks the same as in the LFS editor?

Quote from Flame CZE :

You can update it as soon you can, even before it gets published.

Good to know, thanx, mod was updated.

I've already made an update that fixes almost all the things we talked about, but I probably shouldn't confuse reviewers right now, so I'll make an update after the mod is published.

Quote from Scawen :

The NCL can only have an effect when used within the same smoothing group. In...

Thank you, that helps a lot

Quote from Eclipsed :

Even if it's just a schematic drawing,still the tyre should not intersect with damper,right?

Quote from versiu :

Amazing job!

2 thing bother me tho. Where's turbo and why there's FPS counter in clock place?

Good points, I will fix it in the next version!
Thanks for the feedback

Quote from Scawen :

I haven't seen the specific case you are talking about but there are some tricks...

Wow I didn't know about ncl, I tried it now, I made a high value of normals in the places I needed where there are visual artifacts, maybe I need to do something differently but either I don't understand how it works, or it doesn't have a significant effect. (pic 1-5)

Quote from Scawen :

I haven't seen the specific case you are talking about

I was just saying that the shadings in blender, LFS Editor and the game are different. (pic 6-7-8)

By the way is it possible to make blender shading support? In blender there are various ways to manipulate shading that conveniently to work. And while exporting obj there is a checkbox to export shading, but I understand now it doesn't work for LFS in the form of modifier WeightedNormal, which improves the appearance of the model. (pic 9-10)