Physics, are we advancing in the right way?
Recently I have starting to take a closer look at the physics and design of the cars in LFS in an effort to try and understand why the street cars in some cases do not feel as good as they did in S1 and why often times setup changes do not have the effect on the cars handling as I think they should. Some of the things I observed while doing this have made me rethink my approach to car setup but I still do not know enough to really make any hard assumptions. Up to this point I have gone back and forth on whether even loading or even temp is the best solution for tire grip. I am still torn on the subject but I am starting to think that either is just as important as the other, but the current model does not allow one to achieve both even heating and loading, you have to choose which you want to use.
Then next thing I started playing with was tire pressure. I am convinced that some of the handling issues stem from under inflated tires. So I took my set which now felt good and handled the way I liked and added 10psi to the tires in an attempt to try and reduce sidewall flex with out and regard for its effect on tire heating but retaining the camber needed to keep tire heating even. The result was that the car became extremely responsive to input, so much so that I actually got the car to do that snap back to straight on a throttle lift that we all know happens in a real car when you get the back out of shape. I found that it was almost too responsive though and I was still getting more sidewall flex that I wanted.
At this point which the tires starting to behave like I expect them to on my real car changes to the other setting also started to have the effects I know they should. Over damping with the shocks became a liability were before it was necessary to help add responsiveness lost do to soft tires. Adjustments to springs rate started to have the desired effects, when before they seemed to have very little effect. In the end I found that when setup in this way the car now feels like my sporty car instead of like my truck with its narrow, tall soft tires.
So my questions to the community are thus:
Is it more optimal to achieve even tire surface heating or even surface loading under cornering to achieve optimal and predictable handling?
Is it more optimal to have tires running at optimal temp or to have enough pressure to prevent the sidewall from rolling on its side?
Would it be better for online racing for people to use setups based around real world ideas and have a slightly slower more predictable car then a faster car with a much narrower performance envelope?
And lastly what have the rest of you observed in terms of how the cars in LFS compare to cars you drive in real life? Do they handle the same and do changes have the effects you think they should?
Then next thing I started playing with was tire pressure. I am convinced that some of the handling issues stem from under inflated tires. So I took my set which now felt good and handled the way I liked and added 10psi to the tires in an attempt to try and reduce sidewall flex with out and regard for its effect on tire heating but retaining the camber needed to keep tire heating even. The result was that the car became extremely responsive to input, so much so that I actually got the car to do that snap back to straight on a throttle lift that we all know happens in a real car when you get the back out of shape. I found that it was almost too responsive though and I was still getting more sidewall flex that I wanted.
At this point which the tires starting to behave like I expect them to on my real car changes to the other setting also started to have the effects I know they should. Over damping with the shocks became a liability were before it was necessary to help add responsiveness lost do to soft tires. Adjustments to springs rate started to have the desired effects, when before they seemed to have very little effect. In the end I found that when setup in this way the car now feels like my sporty car instead of like my truck with its narrow, tall soft tires.
So my questions to the community are thus:
Is it more optimal to achieve even tire surface heating or even surface loading under cornering to achieve optimal and predictable handling?
Is it more optimal to have tires running at optimal temp or to have enough pressure to prevent the sidewall from rolling on its side?
Would it be better for online racing for people to use setups based around real world ideas and have a slightly slower more predictable car then a faster car with a much narrower performance envelope?
And lastly what have the rest of you observed in terms of how the cars in LFS compare to cars you drive in real life? Do they handle the same and do changes have the effects you think they should?
Oblivion is a good example. One interesting not is that HRD also disables AA and AF, which at first i though was odd but with HDR the light sources and shadows are in constant flux based on the point of view of the camera and the worlds movment. In effect it blends in such a dynamic sceen that you don't even see that there are jaggies because they are always moving and changing shape.
Was I the only one that got chills while watcing the GT5 video when it cut tot he pit lane. HOLY COW!
The FZR is definatly a beast, handles like a dream up to about 95% after that it goes from being all nice to deing a beast from hell that is just looking for an oppertunity to bite. The car is built like a Porsche, all the weight is in the back on the rear tires. That rear weight bias make it accelerate like a cheata but in the corners and under breaking it wants to lead the way. Controling that weight and how it moves around is the key.
The setup will only get you so far, at some point you need to learn to use that weight to help you control the car. I find that I will more times then not have understeer in fast corners which i try and compensate for with setup and the truth of the matter is I am using too much steering input. The result is a very oversteery set in slow speed corners and during rapid direction changes like the final chicane.
Another common pitfall in the FZR is that reduced grip in the rear end can be either from springs and ARBs too soft or too hard. So untill you get it close it will not react to adjustments like it would in a R/F car like the XRR. Too soft and the too much weigth can transfer, too hard and you don't allow enough weight to transfer. Both situations lead to loose of grip at the back.
The FZR is very sensitive to small changes in tire and suspension changes so make them in small ammounts. AS National is also not the best track for building a set on as it has limited corner types to test against and what works there may not work anywhere else. But sets built for tracks like AS Historic and GP will work almost anywhere with minor adjustments.
The setup will only get you so far, at some point you need to learn to use that weight to help you control the car. I find that I will more times then not have understeer in fast corners which i try and compensate for with setup and the truth of the matter is I am using too much steering input. The result is a very oversteery set in slow speed corners and during rapid direction changes like the final chicane.
Another common pitfall in the FZR is that reduced grip in the rear end can be either from springs and ARBs too soft or too hard. So untill you get it close it will not react to adjustments like it would in a R/F car like the XRR. Too soft and the too much weigth can transfer, too hard and you don't allow enough weight to transfer. Both situations lead to loose of grip at the back.
The FZR is very sensitive to small changes in tire and suspension changes so make them in small ammounts. AS National is also not the best track for building a set on as it has limited corner types to test against and what works there may not work anywhere else. But sets built for tracks like AS Historic and GP will work almost anywhere with minor adjustments.
Glen, the TBO class has always had different performance levels between the cars. Its been that way since the begining and we don't know how the cars would compair if their only differences were their design and not specs. Right now the cars in any given class differ by so many different ways that ballancing is overly complex. If they were the same in many ways then fewer adjustments would be needed to even then out reasonably well.
I think the biggest reason one car is faster then another in the TBO class is because the lightest fastest car also has the most static grip. If the GTT was better able to get the power down it would close the performance gap nicely, the RB4 sufferes in this way too in addition to having a poor power to weight ratio. I just think the putting all the cars on an even footing will lead to better ballance down the road. Its diffacult to compair oranges to apples, but its even more diffacult to compair an orange with a steak.
I think the biggest reason one car is faster then another in the TBO class is because the lightest fastest car also has the most static grip. If the GTT was better able to get the power down it would close the performance gap nicely, the RB4 sufferes in this way too in addition to having a poor power to weight ratio. I just think the putting all the cars on an even footing will lead to better ballance down the road. Its diffacult to compair oranges to apples, but its even more diffacult to compair an orange with a steak.
Class Balance and the Tire Model
Several recent threads have made me rethink my ideas of a few of the things that I feel need to change in LFS. Those two areas are class balance and the tire model. These are two areas which many of us feel need to be adjusted for various reasons and we do not all feel the same way. Since these discussions are spread though several threads I created this new one as I think the solution which will improve both issues is very interlinked.
Class Balance:
Let’s first look at class balance as it will lead to the changes in the tire model. LFS is a racing simulator which contains variety of car types, classes and racing styles. One major difference between the classes in LFS and the classes in real racing is the way the cars are grouped. In live for speed in any given class which has more then a single car the cars them selves are very different in terms of design and performance. This makes balancing the class even more difficult then it needs to be. I can understand that the intent in doing so was to make each car unique in its own way.
The truth of the matter is though that even if they all shared the same weight, power and tire size they would all still be very different in their handling. A FWD car will behave differently then a RWD car, each will perform better in different situations and will cater to different styles of driving. And AWD is also a very different animal then either a FWD or RWD. The next point is that for the more part in most organized racing classes all the cars will be limited to a minimum weight and maximum power. Most cars are going to be built to be as close to these limits as they can, why would you ever intentionally make your car heavier then a competitor or run will less power? The last point is that all the cars in a given class also have maximum tire size and width restrictions.
So I say make the cars in a given class just about the same weight maybe give or take 10kg, give them all about the same HP and torque, but with torque curves that fit the vehicles design, and give them all the same size tires so they all have the same static grip. Let the cars design allow it to be unique, without forcing it to be so and if they still prove to be unbalanced then a few small adjustments to weight or power should get them sorted with less difficulty then it may be now.
The Tire Model:
This brings us nicely in to the changes that I think need to be made to the tire model, but first lets look at why the changes need to be made. Tire in the real world are designed to perform ideally under different situations. As such each tire has different characteristics that define its performance based on its intended use. The tires in LFS appear to be all of very similar design with the only differences being optimal temp, static grip and wear rate. Now with the upcoming changed that tire brands will introduce new possibilities are open. Before the devs get too entrenched in the changes I want to throw out a few ideas for the community to discuss.
The first idea is that the every tire type be designed for its intended purpose and not just be copies of the base with altered grip/wear/optimal temp. To do that we need to also change how tire are linked with the cars. As it is now every car has a predefined wheel diameter and tire width/profile. I think that wheel diameter should be the only spec that should be linked to the vehicle and or vehicle class. The design of the wheel should be free and we should have several choices. The wheel width, tire width, profile, and specs should all be based on the type of tire for a given class. I know this is a big change and may require some major code reworking if it’s not already going to be reworked to allow different brands to have different specs, but in the end it will allow each tire type to be different in more then one or two ways and as a result till allow for more realistic tire physics.
In a given class all the tires types should have the same overall diameter, but each should have a different tread width and profile to suit is purpose and design. For the street cars, an off road tire will be narrower and taller and made form a longer wearing compound then a street tire. A normal road tire is going to be designed to provide a softer ride and longer life then a performance road tire at the cost of handling. In essence every type of tire should vary in more then just the three ways they do now. Each should have a unique combination of tread width, sidewall height and sidewall stiffness in addition to tire compound (which equates to the wear rate, static grip and optimal temp differences we have now.)
The racing tires are another area where we need to change. There is no point in having different tire compounds in the racing tires at this point because different tires compounds are use primarily to suit the ambient temperature differences on any given day or location then they are for any other reason. Since all the tracks in LFS have the same ambient and racing surface temps we need only one compound at this time. Make it easy on yourselves and us and concentrate on making that one compound feel right. When we get varying weather conditions that effect ambient and track temps then introduce different racing compounds. I would also be inclined to ask that when we do get to the point where we need more then one racing tire compound for a given racing class that we have a large number of choices as having to choose between having a little more grip or a little longer wear will make races interesting. So having the differenced between compounds small will ensues that for any given condition there are at least two useable choices.
This brings is to the last point in that when we do get brands that have different handling there will now be many more choices in how they can differ and the differences can be smaller. This will only serve to make the choice to use one brand over another a matter of driving style instead of which is a better tire. With very small differences the only advantage of one brand over another brand would be because that brand just works a little better for the way you drive instead of being just a clearly better tire. It would also be nice if certain handling traits remain persistent through out a brands tire range. For example say Evostar tires offer a slight grip advantage but wear a little faster or that Torro tires like to run little warmer, etc.
Well that my piece and I hope some useful discussion will come of this. The thread is now yours, so discuss.
Class Balance:
Let’s first look at class balance as it will lead to the changes in the tire model. LFS is a racing simulator which contains variety of car types, classes and racing styles. One major difference between the classes in LFS and the classes in real racing is the way the cars are grouped. In live for speed in any given class which has more then a single car the cars them selves are very different in terms of design and performance. This makes balancing the class even more difficult then it needs to be. I can understand that the intent in doing so was to make each car unique in its own way.
The truth of the matter is though that even if they all shared the same weight, power and tire size they would all still be very different in their handling. A FWD car will behave differently then a RWD car, each will perform better in different situations and will cater to different styles of driving. And AWD is also a very different animal then either a FWD or RWD. The next point is that for the more part in most organized racing classes all the cars will be limited to a minimum weight and maximum power. Most cars are going to be built to be as close to these limits as they can, why would you ever intentionally make your car heavier then a competitor or run will less power? The last point is that all the cars in a given class also have maximum tire size and width restrictions.
So I say make the cars in a given class just about the same weight maybe give or take 10kg, give them all about the same HP and torque, but with torque curves that fit the vehicles design, and give them all the same size tires so they all have the same static grip. Let the cars design allow it to be unique, without forcing it to be so and if they still prove to be unbalanced then a few small adjustments to weight or power should get them sorted with less difficulty then it may be now.
The Tire Model:
This brings us nicely in to the changes that I think need to be made to the tire model, but first lets look at why the changes need to be made. Tire in the real world are designed to perform ideally under different situations. As such each tire has different characteristics that define its performance based on its intended use. The tires in LFS appear to be all of very similar design with the only differences being optimal temp, static grip and wear rate. Now with the upcoming changed that tire brands will introduce new possibilities are open. Before the devs get too entrenched in the changes I want to throw out a few ideas for the community to discuss.
The first idea is that the every tire type be designed for its intended purpose and not just be copies of the base with altered grip/wear/optimal temp. To do that we need to also change how tire are linked with the cars. As it is now every car has a predefined wheel diameter and tire width/profile. I think that wheel diameter should be the only spec that should be linked to the vehicle and or vehicle class. The design of the wheel should be free and we should have several choices. The wheel width, tire width, profile, and specs should all be based on the type of tire for a given class. I know this is a big change and may require some major code reworking if it’s not already going to be reworked to allow different brands to have different specs, but in the end it will allow each tire type to be different in more then one or two ways and as a result till allow for more realistic tire physics.
In a given class all the tires types should have the same overall diameter, but each should have a different tread width and profile to suit is purpose and design. For the street cars, an off road tire will be narrower and taller and made form a longer wearing compound then a street tire. A normal road tire is going to be designed to provide a softer ride and longer life then a performance road tire at the cost of handling. In essence every type of tire should vary in more then just the three ways they do now. Each should have a unique combination of tread width, sidewall height and sidewall stiffness in addition to tire compound (which equates to the wear rate, static grip and optimal temp differences we have now.)
The racing tires are another area where we need to change. There is no point in having different tire compounds in the racing tires at this point because different tires compounds are use primarily to suit the ambient temperature differences on any given day or location then they are for any other reason. Since all the tracks in LFS have the same ambient and racing surface temps we need only one compound at this time. Make it easy on yourselves and us and concentrate on making that one compound feel right. When we get varying weather conditions that effect ambient and track temps then introduce different racing compounds. I would also be inclined to ask that when we do get to the point where we need more then one racing tire compound for a given racing class that we have a large number of choices as having to choose between having a little more grip or a little longer wear will make races interesting. So having the differenced between compounds small will ensues that for any given condition there are at least two useable choices.
This brings is to the last point in that when we do get brands that have different handling there will now be many more choices in how they can differ and the differences can be smaller. This will only serve to make the choice to use one brand over another a matter of driving style instead of which is a better tire. With very small differences the only advantage of one brand over another brand would be because that brand just works a little better for the way you drive instead of being just a clearly better tire. It would also be nice if certain handling traits remain persistent through out a brands tire range. For example say Evostar tires offer a slight grip advantage but wear a little faster or that Torro tires like to run little warmer, etc.
Well that my piece and I hope some useful discussion will come of this. The thread is now yours, so discuss.
I think the point is not whether the deformation is possible in real life, but rather are the tires used in LFS accurate for what tires would be used in a street tire, club racing series or track day? This is where I think the problem is. The Road Normal tires I think act as they should, rolling very easily as they have thinner sidewalls to absorb bumps and provide a smooth ride. The Road Supers are are more akin to a performance driving tire like a Potenza or Advan, these tires are made from a softer compount and will run warmer but will also be lower profile and have a thicker sidewall. These types of tires are designed to have high grip levels, but ride comfort is a secondary thought.
When I went to the local autocross school they told everyone to increese the pressure in their tires so as to not roll the tires over on the sidewalls. Their recomendation was 45psi front and 40psi rear in a FWD and 40psi all the way around for RWD and AWD cars. Lighter cars with lower profile tires did not need to run this high to achieve the desidered results. My miata has 195/50R15 tires with a speed rating of 150mph which should be equilivent to a road super. I ran 35psi front and 30psi rear and under max lateral grip and in drift the rear tires never rolled over on to the sidewalls. They showed wear right to the edge of the tread and no further.
Now when I setup the XR GT the same way as my miata which is very close but just a little heaver and with a little more power, the tires have way too much sidewall flex. The result is that you need to run much more negitive camber to cominsate or run tire pressure way too high for optimal heating. This causes the handeling of the car to suffer and is just wrong.
In LFS all the cars are being used on a track of some sort. As such they should be using tires approate for the activity. I have a few ideas but they go deeper then just the issue of sidewall flex. I will be starting a dissusion on that elsewwere but here are the bits that are relevent here.
Wheel size and tire size need to be made more standardized, not by car but by class and application. For any given car/class the wheel diamiter should be fixed. The width should be based on the tire being used. So with a system like this lets look at the TBO class as an example. In the TBO class all the cars would run with 15" wheels. Now depending on the tires used the width and sidewall hight would change. So the knobby dirt tires might be 185/65R tires, the hypbrid might be 195/60R, the Road Normal might be 205/55R and the Road Super a 215/50R tire. This way each tire remains the same diamiter but is now designed more for the application used. You get the idea, but this can be taken even further.
Each type of tire really has two parts, the tread and sidewall. Each is tailered to the tires application. So the knobby tire, being intended for use off-road, will have long lasting tread and a semi stiff side wall to help resist roll over but still absorb impact. The hybrid a softer tread for dual purpose use and a semi stiff sidewall to absorb impact and resist rollover. The road normal is an evey day tire, designed for long life and ride comfort, as such is will have a tread that is medium to medium hard and a soft sidewall to absorb impact but be less resistant to rollover. The road super is a performance tire designed to provide the best gip a street tire can and everything else is secondary, it will has a soft tread and semi-stiff side wall.
When I went to the local autocross school they told everyone to increese the pressure in their tires so as to not roll the tires over on the sidewalls. Their recomendation was 45psi front and 40psi rear in a FWD and 40psi all the way around for RWD and AWD cars. Lighter cars with lower profile tires did not need to run this high to achieve the desidered results. My miata has 195/50R15 tires with a speed rating of 150mph which should be equilivent to a road super. I ran 35psi front and 30psi rear and under max lateral grip and in drift the rear tires never rolled over on to the sidewalls. They showed wear right to the edge of the tread and no further.
Now when I setup the XR GT the same way as my miata which is very close but just a little heaver and with a little more power, the tires have way too much sidewall flex. The result is that you need to run much more negitive camber to cominsate or run tire pressure way too high for optimal heating. This causes the handeling of the car to suffer and is just wrong.
In LFS all the cars are being used on a track of some sort. As such they should be using tires approate for the activity. I have a few ideas but they go deeper then just the issue of sidewall flex. I will be starting a dissusion on that elsewwere but here are the bits that are relevent here.
Wheel size and tire size need to be made more standardized, not by car but by class and application. For any given car/class the wheel diamiter should be fixed. The width should be based on the tire being used. So with a system like this lets look at the TBO class as an example. In the TBO class all the cars would run with 15" wheels. Now depending on the tires used the width and sidewall hight would change. So the knobby dirt tires might be 185/65R tires, the hypbrid might be 195/60R, the Road Normal might be 205/55R and the Road Super a 215/50R tire. This way each tire remains the same diamiter but is now designed more for the application used. You get the idea, but this can be taken even further.
Each type of tire really has two parts, the tread and sidewall. Each is tailered to the tires application. So the knobby tire, being intended for use off-road, will have long lasting tread and a semi stiff side wall to help resist roll over but still absorb impact. The hybrid a softer tread for dual purpose use and a semi stiff sidewall to absorb impact and resist rollover. The road normal is an evey day tire, designed for long life and ride comfort, as such is will have a tread that is medium to medium hard and a soft sidewall to absorb impact but be less resistant to rollover. The road super is a performance tire designed to provide the best gip a street tire can and everything else is secondary, it will has a soft tread and semi-stiff side wall.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
Go drive the FF1600 in nKPro with no aids and a buton clutch or auto clutch, it tells you, you hear it click, you quickly learn the timing just like in a real car. Its not impossible to do, it just has not been done right in LFS yet. Sometimes I wish LFS and nKPro would merge in to a single project, its like they are two halfs of a whole, the areas where each suffers the other excells and vise versa.
All I know is that the tires on my car do not deflect that badly. The tires on my truck woudl be I would not drive in a maner to do that to the tires on my truck.
The being that anyone worth their salt and has a few functioning braincells would put tires approate for the activity on a car. So if you were goign to race a car even a street car you woudl be stupid to not put on a lower profile, wider tires which can handle the lateral forces with minimal deformation of the sidewalls. Idealy you shoudl find that the tires heat, wear and deform all to acceptable levels when setup correctly. I the street cars in LFS I find this rather diffacult to achieve. Its either propper heating and sloppy sidewalls/handeling or good handeling cold ass tires.
The being that anyone worth their salt and has a few functioning braincells would put tires approate for the activity on a car. So if you were goign to race a car even a street car you woudl be stupid to not put on a lower profile, wider tires which can handle the lateral forces with minimal deformation of the sidewalls. Idealy you shoudl find that the tires heat, wear and deform all to acceptable levels when setup correctly. I the street cars in LFS I find this rather diffacult to achieve. Its either propper heating and sloppy sidewalls/handeling or good handeling cold ass tires.
Even with a roll bar a convetable is rather flexable through the mid section. My miata with a 4 bar still twists the chassis as much as the suspension deflects when crawling over speed bumps at a diaginal angle. You make a roadster or convertable have acceptable chassis flex I think you will need to completly box the chassis with braces. Upper and lower systemtion front and back, a good cage and a center tunnel brace.
Besides the XRT is already ugly why make it worse by removing its top?
Besides the XRT is already ugly why make it worse by removing its top?
My current schedule allows for the Mon-Tue time slot, if/when it changes then the Sat time slot will work. I know the my schedule is changign just don't know when.
If the race time falls on a day and time I am avalable I am interested and will need a team mate. I perfer the LX4 but can drive either. I make no claims to be very fast in the LX though.
nKPro got transmissions right, but I will not take this discusion in to a war of sims. There are many issues with the transmissions in LFS not just the problem of shifting in to first being easy as hell.
First off the amount of adjustability is just silly. There are a very finite number of useable gearsets in a transmission. The size of the housing, the spacing of the internal input and output shafts and the gear tooth size all factor in to limit the choices avalable. Not to mention that in street transmissions you often only have a few choices and and they come as a complete set of gears not just a single gear. Racing transmissions allow for individual gears to be swaped out to suit the application.
Final drive ratios are the same there are only a finite number of ratios that are possible. I woudl love for this to be changed. It adds to the realism, simplifies setups and forces you to make choices as there will not likely be the perfect solution for ever track, do you take top speed or acceleration if the right choice falls between avalable ratios?
First off the amount of adjustability is just silly. There are a very finite number of useable gearsets in a transmission. The size of the housing, the spacing of the internal input and output shafts and the gear tooth size all factor in to limit the choices avalable. Not to mention that in street transmissions you often only have a few choices and and they come as a complete set of gears not just a single gear. Racing transmissions allow for individual gears to be swaped out to suit the application.
Final drive ratios are the same there are only a finite number of ratios that are possible. I woudl love for this to be changed. It adds to the realism, simplifies setups and forces you to make choices as there will not likely be the perfect solution for ever track, do you take top speed or acceleration if the right choice falls between avalable ratios?
My current schedule allows for Mon - Tues racing, if I get the shift change then its a weekends deal for me, wrong side of the pond as is normal.
Why is this thread still open, it adds nothing and has turned in to a bash Phlos thread who may or may not deserve the beating.
Do we have a low end race prepped full bodied, RWD race car? Show me. Oh wait you can't that is the one and only thing I really want to run and its not here. If I want to run drive a race car I am limited to FWD for 500hp monsters. Sorry If sound condisending but the racing in most classes is crap, either the cars are too fast for close racing or the class is too mismatched. The low end R class is a perfict ballance of speed and performance but it only FWD. Sorry if I want somthing more.
I would probaly still buy them as it fuels further development and varity is the spice of life.
No its not about progress reports, like PaulC2K said its about progress or the lack there of. I will agree with PaulC2K in that it would be better to have a small group of additional people work in cooperation with the devs to add content then to delay LFS more then it already is. I have watched new games come and go during the course of the development of LFS. Like PaulC2K and the other people who have been here since the begining we have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Cue-Ball, you have been here for a short time, little more then a year, so you really do not have the same concept as some of us do when we talk about how long we have been waiting for improvments in this sim.
Kegetys proved with that it is not that diffacult for a skilled comunity member to build a very polished car in a short time. Granted he is unable to release what he did or even explain how it can be done. It still serves to show that there are people in this community willing to and capable of assisting the devs, who have the respect for them to not detract or alter their vision of what LFS will eventualy become.
LFS has been release in some form or another for over 4 years. It has made great strides to improve and in my opinion is still the best simulation of auto racing on the internet but it content is dated, the car classes we have need more variaty and there are still classes which do not exist. We have but but 6 different track envirnments in addition to some autocross and drag strips and of those six, two have but a single layout.
This thread has gone in a slightly different direction that I intended but that is a good thing as what we are discussing is very relitive and needs to be talked about. I understand the devs have lives of their own and then for too long they put them on the back burner for LFS. I understand that LFS development has slowed for several reasons and respect them all. But in the end what we ahve now is what we had a year ago with the addition of two new circutes, yet another new car class with a single car, and a few minor improvments in physics, functionality, and accesability.
Its time for more. The world is speeding up and LFS is starting to loose some of its lead. I just hope it doesent fall by the roadside as other developers catch up.
Kegetys proved with that it is not that diffacult for a skilled comunity member to build a very polished car in a short time. Granted he is unable to release what he did or even explain how it can be done. It still serves to show that there are people in this community willing to and capable of assisting the devs, who have the respect for them to not detract or alter their vision of what LFS will eventualy become.
LFS has been release in some form or another for over 4 years. It has made great strides to improve and in my opinion is still the best simulation of auto racing on the internet but it content is dated, the car classes we have need more variaty and there are still classes which do not exist. We have but but 6 different track envirnments in addition to some autocross and drag strips and of those six, two have but a single layout.
This thread has gone in a slightly different direction that I intended but that is a good thing as what we are discussing is very relitive and needs to be talked about. I understand the devs have lives of their own and then for too long they put them on the back burner for LFS. I understand that LFS development has slowed for several reasons and respect them all. But in the end what we ahve now is what we had a year ago with the addition of two new circutes, yet another new car class with a single car, and a few minor improvments in physics, functionality, and accesability.
Its time for more. The world is speeding up and LFS is starting to loose some of its lead. I just hope it doesent fall by the roadside as other developers catch up.
The problem with that corner is not that the sand is lower then the curb its that the inside edge of the curb is not also worn down with smooth rounded edges. That curb would destroy a real tire and wheel from the shear impact alone. I popped the beadseal on my truck going only 30mph on suck a curb in real life. End result was a flat tire.
If you people want to explore the performance envelope in your real cars there is a very inexpensive and redily avalable outlet. Autocross. At least here in the US is cheap and you can often fine several venues a month.
And from my experance in LFS and the autocross school where I discovered I have a drift car, all I can say is LFS was a great tool for developing the skills to react with out thinking and just do whats needed to catch, hold and correct slides. By my 5 attack of the cource I was one with the car, using the throttle as much as the steering to turn the car.
And from my experance in LFS and the autocross school where I discovered I have a drift car, all I can say is LFS was a great tool for developing the skills to react with out thinking and just do whats needed to catch, hold and correct slides. By my 5 attack of the cource I was one with the car, using the throttle as much as the steering to turn the car.
Experimenting with fuel as weight it seems that 50lbs added to the FXO and 50lbs removed from the RB4 puts the cars an pretty even footing...
Just my experimentation.
Just my experimentation.
It not a matter of useing every track config and car compination its about having car and track combinations that appeal to you, and I have run out of them. LFS is a racing simulator yet only have the cars are race cars. The low end race class, which I feel is the most fun, also only contains FWD cars, the XFR & UFR. Scawen is the coder, what are Eric and Victor doing while they wait for S2 to be considered complete? Perhaps they could be working on new cars and tracks for release here and there.
I don't want to sound like an ass but the development of LFS is taking ages, granted there are no rivals in tearms of what LFS is but still, by the time LFS arrives at its happy place the rest of the world will have moved on and out paced it. Its ahead of the curve now, but how long will it stay that way?
I don't want to sound like an ass but the development of LFS is taking ages, granted there are no rivals in tearms of what LFS is but still, by the time LFS arrives at its happy place the rest of the world will have moved on and out paced it. Its ahead of the curve now, but how long will it stay that way?
Smaller more regular content updates for a fee?
The other day I was thinking about LFS and how the car types and tracks are starting to appeal to me less and less as time goes on. I long for a few new cars in new classes or added to existing classes and some new tracks. So I was thinking I would be willing to pay a small fee for regular content updates. A new car or two or a new track environment every few months would be worth it to me for an added fee per update. I see it has having a few benefits with perhaps a few drawbacks.
Positive:
1) Regularly added new content.
2) Additional source of income for the devs.
Negative:
1) The devs need to code a new way to add content that is secure and allows for people with different levels of purchased content to race together. Ideally, all users would have the content but be restricted to using only what they have paid for.
2) More help may be needed to release regular content updates, which is an idea the devs have been reluctant to embrace for reasons of their own, which I can respect.
I know this idea may be very unlikely to ever happen, but I just wanted to toss it out there to get the communities thoughts and feedback and maybe if the devs happen to see theirs as well.
Positive:
1) Regularly added new content.
2) Additional source of income for the devs.
Negative:
1) The devs need to code a new way to add content that is secure and allows for people with different levels of purchased content to race together. Ideally, all users would have the content but be restricted to using only what they have paid for.
2) More help may be needed to release regular content updates, which is an idea the devs have been reluctant to embrace for reasons of their own, which I can respect.
I know this idea may be very unlikely to ever happen, but I just wanted to toss it out there to get the communities thoughts and feedback and maybe if the devs happen to see theirs as well.
For me its the lack of a class of car I want to drive and theones I do enjoy are never used. So yea you could say I am a bit bored. Maybe buying the Miata has somthing to do with my sudden lack of interst in LFS, it just doesn't feel right now.
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